The Times of the Gentiles
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Given the context in which Jesus uses the phrase, "the times of the Gentiles", your explanation does not make sense. Jesus said, "Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles". To equate redeemed gentiles with those who trample Jerusalem under foot is either shockingly poor hermeneutics or a gross oversight. The context is clearly destruction, judgment, and retribution, not salvation.
It does not carry that meaning. No.
It is referring to "Gentile domination over Israel" re: Neb's dream/statue/image, with Neb as "head of gold" and which started in 606/605bc and will stretch clear to the END of the trib years (Lk21:24b/Rev11:2), being CONCLUDED at the time of Christ's "RETURN" to the earth (aka His Second Coming to the earth) Rev19. (think: Dan2:34-35!)
[it is completely distinct, in meaning, from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]" in Rom11:25(15)]
I take it you merely "glossed over" my post where I went into that?
It is referring to "Gentile domination over Israel" re: Neb's dream/statue/image, with Neb as "head of gold" and which started in 606/605bc and will stretch clear to the END of the trib years (Lk21:24b/Rev11:2), being CONCLUDED at the time of Christ's "RETURN" to the earth (aka His Second Coming to the earth) Rev19. (think: Dan2:34-35!)
[it is completely distinct, in meaning, from the phrase "the FULNESS of the Gentiles be come in [G1525]" in Rom11:25(15)]
I take it you merely "glossed over" my post where I went into that?
You don't consider this (the following) "biblical"?
Romans 11 -
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number [/FULNESS (not "the TIMES of" here)] of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come from Zion;
He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28 Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29 For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.
[note: BOTH "they" in verse 28 are referring back to the "biblical" word "Israel"
]
I already posted the article which shows ALL 73 occurrences of "Israel" in the NT (ALL) mean "Israel"-- http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/israelaf.htm --for the readers: note especially the entries under "Rom9:6, 11:26, Gal6:16 and Eph2:12" which are notoriously mis-applied/mis-defined by the "amill-teachings"
Romans 11 -
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number [/FULNESS (not "the TIMES of" here)] of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come from Zion;
He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28 Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29 For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.
[note: BOTH "they" in verse 28 are referring back to the "biblical" word "Israel"
]I already posted the article which shows ALL 73 occurrences of "Israel" in the NT (ALL) mean "Israel"-- http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/israelaf.htm --for the readers: note especially the entries under "Rom9:6, 11:26, Gal6:16 and Eph2:12" which are notoriously mis-applied/mis-defined by the "amill-teachings"
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You don't consider this (the following) "biblical"?
Romans 11 -
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number [/FULNESS (not "the TIMES of" here)] of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come from Zion;
He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28 Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29 For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.
[note: BOTH "they" in verse 28 are referring back to the "biblical" word "Israel" ]
I already posted the article which shows ALL 73 occurrences of "Israel" in the NT (ALL) mean "Israel"-- http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/israelaf.htm --for the readers: note especially the entries under "Rom9:6, 11:26, Gal6:16 and Eph2:12" which are notoriously mis-applied/mis-defined by the "amill-teachings"
Romans 11 -
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number [/FULNESS (not "the TIMES of" here)] of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come from Zion;
He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27 And this is My covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28 Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29 For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.
[note: BOTH "they" in verse 28 are referring back to the "biblical" word "Israel"
]I already posted the article which shows ALL 73 occurrences of "Israel" in the NT (ALL) mean "Israel"-- http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/israelaf.htm --for the readers: note especially the entries under "Rom9:6, 11:26, Gal6:16 and Eph2:12" which are notoriously mis-applied/mis-defined by the "amill-teachings"
It seems to me you're not grasping what "the olive tree" represents.
Here's what I've posted in the past:
[quoting my past posts on this]
I'm looking for a different quote by George V Wigram... but (in the meantime) in its place, I'll just post this brief portion also by him (note the phrase "God's governmental ways on earth," which is what I believe Roman's 11's "olive tree" represents):
[quoting Wigram]
"Gen. 27:29 [Isaac blessing Jacob]. Let peoples (gamnzim, pl.), serve thee and [manners or sorts of ] nations (l'ummim, pl.) bow down to thee: be lord [a mighty man] over thy brethren.
"Observe, this would not run the source of the division of people back to Shem, Ham and Japhet, so as to make the word to be equivalent to what we call the races of people, in connection with the Noahic earth, who constitute the whole human family. The subdivision here alluded to took place in the family of Isaac, type of the heir of promise, not earlier; and the heads of this subdivision are brought before us in Rom. 9 All God's ways and subdivisions are to be noted."
[also]
"f Israel is the goh'y of experience, promise, blessing on the earth; the center of all God's governmental ways on earth; but in saying that, I look at them from outside and as one whole. When they are owned as gammi, my people, their detailed state and associations within is the aspect in which they are considered."
--George V Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/heb...t-testimony-psalms-article/g-v-wigram/la61041
____________
[quoting that other article by Wigram]
"[re: Romans 11] In Jesus Christ, if the question be about Christian position, eternal life, or the Church considered in her essential relationship to Christ, there was neither Jew nor Gentile; the thoughts found in this chapter [Romans 11] can THERE have no place. If the question be about the cutting off of an individual for sinful conduct, little matters it whether he be Jew or Gentile; that has nothing to do with it, and on the other hand, there would be no question about grafting in again of the Jews more than of any others, and neither Jews nor others could be grafted in, if God had cut them off in such a manner. And if it were a question about a warning from the Apostle to Christians at Rome, and so to others elsewhere, as being brethren, it would be almost nonsense to say, " And thou, O Gentile, take heed!" Why, thou, O Gentile? Had not Christians, Jews by birth, as much need to take heed? Or could the Spirit of God, in such a warning, have made the distinction, and thus denied the principle of, the Church of God in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile? If the question is about a divine administration upon earth, then God can well make the distinction and develop his ways towards the one and the other; and it is plain that from the commencement of the ninth chapter the Apostle is occupied with and pointedly contrasts the Jews and the Gentiles, presenting us with the administration of the divine ways upon the earth. First declaring his attachment to Israel, he points out an election in the election for the earth, and further, that if God according to his sovereignty had chosen Israel (and such was Israel's boast), He had not renounced His sovereignty; and consequently, He could call the Gentiles if he would. Then he recalls to mind that the prophets had shown that a little remnant only, of Israel, at such an epoch, would be saved, and that a stone of stumbling would be laid in Zion."
-- Thoughts on Romans 11 and the Responsibility of the Church, Present Testimony: Volume 4 George V. Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/tho...the-church/present-testimony-volume-4/la85282
[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
Here's what I've posted in the past:
[quoting my past posts on this]
I'm looking for a different quote by George V Wigram... but (in the meantime) in its place, I'll just post this brief portion also by him (note the phrase "God's governmental ways on earth," which is what I believe Roman's 11's "olive tree" represents):
[quoting Wigram]
"Gen. 27:29 [Isaac blessing Jacob]. Let peoples (gamnzim, pl.), serve thee and [manners or sorts of ] nations (l'ummim, pl.) bow down to thee: be lord [a mighty man] over thy brethren.
"Observe, this would not run the source of the division of people back to Shem, Ham and Japhet, so as to make the word to be equivalent to what we call the races of people, in connection with the Noahic earth, who constitute the whole human family. The subdivision here alluded to took place in the family of Isaac, type of the heir of promise, not earlier; and the heads of this subdivision are brought before us in Rom. 9 All God's ways and subdivisions are to be noted."
[also]
"f Israel is the goh'y of experience, promise, blessing on the earth; the center of all God's governmental ways on earth; but in saying that, I look at them from outside and as one whole. When they are owned as gammi, my people, their detailed state and associations within is the aspect in which they are considered."
--George V Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/heb...t-testimony-psalms-article/g-v-wigram/la61041
____________
[quoting that other article by Wigram]
"[re: Romans 11] In Jesus Christ, if the question be about Christian position, eternal life, or the Church considered in her essential relationship to Christ, there was neither Jew nor Gentile; the thoughts found in this chapter [Romans 11] can THERE have no place. If the question be about the cutting off of an individual for sinful conduct, little matters it whether he be Jew or Gentile; that has nothing to do with it, and on the other hand, there would be no question about grafting in again of the Jews more than of any others, and neither Jews nor others could be grafted in, if God had cut them off in such a manner. And if it were a question about a warning from the Apostle to Christians at Rome, and so to others elsewhere, as being brethren, it would be almost nonsense to say, " And thou, O Gentile, take heed!" Why, thou, O Gentile? Had not Christians, Jews by birth, as much need to take heed? Or could the Spirit of God, in such a warning, have made the distinction, and thus denied the principle of, the Church of God in which there is neither Jew nor Gentile? If the question is about a divine administration upon earth, then God can well make the distinction and develop his ways towards the one and the other; and it is plain that from the commencement of the ninth chapter the Apostle is occupied with and pointedly contrasts the Jews and the Gentiles, presenting us with the administration of the divine ways upon the earth. First declaring his attachment to Israel, he points out an election in the election for the earth, and further, that if God according to his sovereignty had chosen Israel (and such was Israel's boast), He had not renounced His sovereignty; and consequently, He could call the Gentiles if he would. Then he recalls to mind that the prophets had shown that a little remnant only, of Israel, at such an epoch, would be saved, and that a stone of stumbling would be laid in Zion."
-- Thoughts on Romans 11 and the Responsibility of the Church, Present Testimony: Volume 4 George V. Wigram
http://bibletruthpublishers.com/tho...the-church/present-testimony-volume-4/la85282
[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
E
The times of the gentile is clear
God gave us what this time will be in his prophesies to daniel
1. It will consists of 4 entities (Babylon, media/persia, greece, Rome 1 and Rome 1)
2, during this time, gentiles will rule over Isreal and control jerusalem
3. god will allow this to continue for a period of time
4, this period will end with the return of Christ in glory, where he totoally Destroys the gentile kingdoms and set up his own kingdom where he rules both jew and gentile no matter where they are in the world
God gave us what this time will be in his prophesies to daniel
1. It will consists of 4 entities (Babylon, media/persia, greece, Rome 1 and Rome 1)
2, during this time, gentiles will rule over Isreal and control jerusalem
3. god will allow this to continue for a period of time
4, this period will end with the return of Christ in glory, where he totoally Destroys the gentile kingdoms and set up his own kingdom where he rules both jew and gentile no matter where they are in the world
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