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Firstly the "Left Behind " books are FICTION Not biblical nor intendedto be a bible based reading.
Secondly read this
Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Eze 13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Eze 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Secondly read this
Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Eze 13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Eze 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
NIV vrsion for clarification
Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, with which ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Eze 13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall no more be in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Eze 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, with which ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
Eze 13:21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall no more be in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 13:22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
Eze 13:23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
L
The verses earlier were mentioning women who did this (Ezekiel 13:17-19) and the Lord was asking Ezekiel to prophesy against them. It is a dark sentence, but there are hints in the New Testament of what He meant.
Making someone fly is in contrast to letting them walk. The ground would be being based in the Word of God and flying would be like being carried to and fro by every wind of teaching. (mentioned in Jude and Paul - carried by every wind of doctrine) I believe this church is called to be based on God's word and to like trees be planted - ground.
In Ezekiel, I think He charges the prophet to prophesy to women in Israel who prophesied lies (Ezekiel 13:22) - especially to His people - and told only those who came to them that they were saved and told everyone else that did not come that they were not. (Ezekiel 13:22)
Because of this, his righteous people were sad and those who walked in evil rejoiced because they went to those women.
The verse closes with a word of salvation that His people would be delivered from their hands.
Making someone fly is in contrast to letting them walk. The ground would be being based in the Word of God and flying would be like being carried to and fro by every wind of teaching. (mentioned in Jude and Paul - carried by every wind of doctrine) I believe this church is called to be based on God's word and to like trees be planted - ground.
In Ezekiel, I think He charges the prophet to prophesy to women in Israel who prophesied lies (Ezekiel 13:22) - especially to His people - and told only those who came to them that they were saved and told everyone else that did not come that they were not. (Ezekiel 13:22)
Because of this, his righteous people were sad and those who walked in evil rejoiced because they went to those women.
The verse closes with a word of salvation that His people would be delivered from their hands.
I have seen the posts that Zander has put in here and I believe they have manny good scriptual referances to pretribulation rapture I realy apreciate them, and I have seen the ones suporting post-tribulation rapture they both make there points in suporting the beliefs they hold to, I find both of them interesting though I havnt seen anything in here regarding mid-tribulation rapture.
I im interested also how pre and post tribs explain the last trumpet (1 cor 15:52) and the 7th trumpet (Rev 11:15) regarding the rapture because if there views of the book of revelation are a chronalogical interpratation the 7th trumpet seems to apear during the tribulation not before, since there was the first 6 trumpets, and not after since after the 7th trumpet there is still latter the 7 bowls of wrath.
I find this subject interesting but I think when ive looked at the aposing sides of each pre-mid-post they always point out areas that the others fall short but I dont think I hold to a cirtin one alltogether im just a Disspensationalist.
I just want to add that we might all have good evidance for what we believe but no one has proven anything. I read every post in this thread and enjoyed it allot but just because you have given realy good evidence that suports your beliefe dosnt mean that you have all together made the evidance of the other position irrelevant and therefore given proof.
I im interested also how pre and post tribs explain the last trumpet (1 cor 15:52) and the 7th trumpet (Rev 11:15) regarding the rapture because if there views of the book of revelation are a chronalogical interpratation the 7th trumpet seems to apear during the tribulation not before, since there was the first 6 trumpets, and not after since after the 7th trumpet there is still latter the 7 bowls of wrath.
I find this subject interesting but I think when ive looked at the aposing sides of each pre-mid-post they always point out areas that the others fall short but I dont think I hold to a cirtin one alltogether im just a Disspensationalist.
I just want to add that we might all have good evidance for what we believe but no one has proven anything. I read every post in this thread and enjoyed it allot but just because you have given realy good evidence that suports your beliefe dosnt mean that you have all together made the evidance of the other position irrelevant and therefore given proof.
I just want to add that we might all have good evidance for what we believe but no one has proven anything. I read every post in this thread and enjoyed it allot but just because you have given realy good evidence that suports your beliefe dosnt mean that you have all together made the evidance of the other position irrelevant and therefore given proof.
Read this interpretation of the parable of the wheat and tares and tell me what ou think its referring to
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Read this interpretation of the parable of the wheat and tares and tell me what ou think its referring to
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
S
Onwingsaseagles perhaps you could give reasons why you think you are the only one that is right and can understand the bible correctly? Please don't continue to use the same verses over and over again because as you should know anyone can read into a verse anything that they want it to be to line up with their beliefs. Actually I would like the true reason as to why you started this thread, if it was to feed your ego that you are right then have the courage to be honest with yourself and just say so, because everyone else can see it a mile away. Be blessed
Hi NoahsDad how are you,
the son of man sows seed in the world it is the children of the kingdom, the devil also sows seed in the world it is the children of the wicked, the end of the world is the harvest in witch the Angels will reap, the children of the wicked will be burned, and the rightious ( children of the kingdome ) will shine like the sun in there fathers kingdome.
I find it interesting that we usualy think of the seed to be only the word of God but here in the scripture you posted it says the seed is the children of the kingdome, we being his children are like seed sown in this world along with other seed (the children of the wicked) were at the end of the world these two are devided and the children of the kingdom will live on in the kingdome of there father
the son of man sows seed in the world it is the children of the kingdom, the devil also sows seed in the world it is the children of the wicked, the end of the world is the harvest in witch the Angels will reap, the children of the wicked will be burned, and the rightious ( children of the kingdome ) will shine like the sun in there fathers kingdome.
I find it interesting that we usualy think of the seed to be only the word of God but here in the scripture you posted it says the seed is the children of the kingdome, we being his children are like seed sown in this world along with other seed (the children of the wicked) were at the end of the world these two are devided and the children of the kingdom will live on in the kingdome of there father
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
Sounds like Mat24,Luke 21 and Mark 13 huh?
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
Sounds like Mat24,Luke 21 and Mark 13 huh?
Here is that same thing in revelation
Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
O
I haven't seen more than one maybe two people even try to give any verses to back up their belief while I have given many. The verses that have been given in support of the pretrib view actually help to support the post trib view. Now if anyone is rude it is you for calling me rude. However I will stand strong and defend the truth of God's word against those that would attempt to pervert it to suit their own lusts.
O
You would be surprised to know have have no ego, all I do i do for the Lord. This poll is surprising to me that such an overwhelming majority would believe a lie. As far as Me being the only one that can understand the Bible correctly that is not the case. The problem is not one of understanding scripture or of the correct or wrong interpretation, it is a matter of believing it. When Jesus says that He is reutning after the tribulation to gather the elect, I BELIEVE IT. When Paul writes that the rapture is at the last trump, I BELIEVE IT. When scripture tell us that the rapture is not until Christ retruns to burn the chaff/ wicked with fire, I BELIEVE. When 2nd Thess 2:1-3 says that the gathering together / rapture is on the same day as the post trib 2nd coming and not until after the anti Christ has shown himself, I BELIEVE IT. When Revelation 20:4-6 tell us that the first ressurection is after the Tribulation is over, I do not insist that their will be a resurrection before the tribulation begins. You see I am not able to discern scripture better than you, I just believe what it says as it is written.
So for you to continue to hold onto the pretrib view, you must insist that immediately after the tribulation actually means right before it starts. You also have to say that the first resurrection is not really the first resurrection, that the last trump isn't really the last trump, and that the same day means seven years apart. Sound funny when put that way, but believe or not there are those that teach just that, when confronted with the truth.
So for you to continue to hold onto the pretrib view, you must insist that immediately after the tribulation actually means right before it starts. You also have to say that the first resurrection is not really the first resurrection, that the last trump isn't really the last trump, and that the same day means seven years apart. Sound funny when put that way, but believe or not there are those that teach just that, when confronted with the truth.
O
1st Corinthians 15:51-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
It is universally understood that this is referring to the event known as the rapture. We see in the passage that it tell us when it will happen ''at the last trump''. We also see in Matthew 24:29-31 that there will be a trumpet sounded after the tribulation has ended.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
If the rapture is at the last trump, which we know it is because God's word says it does. Then the rapture can not be before the trumpet sounded in Matthew 24, which is sounded after the tribulation is over.
Some will argue that the trumpet sounded in 1st Corinthians 15:52 is the seventh trumpet from Revelation, I disagree. However it is irrelevant to my point because regardless if it is the seventh trumpet or not we know this, it is the last trump. I would submit that the trumpet sounded in 1st Corinthians 15 is the same as the one sounded in Matthew 24, but once again it is irrelevant to my point. Whether they are the same or not. The trump in 1st Corinthians can not be before the one in Matthew because the one in 1st Corinthians is the very last trump. Therefore if the trumpet sounded in 1st Corinthians 15:52 can not be before the trumpet in Matthew 24:31 so the rapture can not be before the tribulation is over much less before it even begins.
Just a side note whether or not the last trump and the 7th trump are the same or not we know for a fact that the last trump cannot be before the 7th trump because the last trump will be the very last one to sound. The rapture will NOT be before the very last trump sounded or the Bible is wrong and are faith in any thing taught in scripture is invalid.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
It is universally understood that this is referring to the event known as the rapture. We see in the passage that it tell us when it will happen ''at the last trump''. We also see in Matthew 24:29-31 that there will be a trumpet sounded after the tribulation has ended.
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
If the rapture is at the last trump, which we know it is because God's word says it does. Then the rapture can not be before the trumpet sounded in Matthew 24, which is sounded after the tribulation is over.
Some will argue that the trumpet sounded in 1st Corinthians 15:52 is the seventh trumpet from Revelation, I disagree. However it is irrelevant to my point because regardless if it is the seventh trumpet or not we know this, it is the last trump. I would submit that the trumpet sounded in 1st Corinthians 15 is the same as the one sounded in Matthew 24, but once again it is irrelevant to my point. Whether they are the same or not. The trump in 1st Corinthians can not be before the one in Matthew because the one in 1st Corinthians is the very last trump. Therefore if the trumpet sounded in 1st Corinthians 15:52 can not be before the trumpet in Matthew 24:31 so the rapture can not be before the tribulation is over much less before it even begins.
Just a side note whether or not the last trump and the 7th trump are the same or not we know for a fact that the last trump cannot be before the 7th trump because the last trump will be the very last one to sound. The rapture will NOT be before the very last trump sounded or the Bible is wrong and are faith in any thing taught in scripture is invalid.
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D
While the series, Left Behind is fiction, (duh!), I think that they DID try to make them Biblically based. Noah's Dad, could you point out how they are not? ...and did the authors SAY that as you infer?
They really seemed to tick a LOT of boxes from what I have read in the Bible but, of course, no one is complete in their knowledge.
They really seemed to tick a LOT of boxes from what I have read in the Bible but, of course, no one is complete in their knowledge.
Heres the thing with the "Left Behind" books
1 The author of those books is a Fiction writer
2 He said in a 2002 interview on TBN (no less) that the books werent intended to be bible based They were just what he thaught would be an interesting story after seeing something on the subject of the rapture
3 Hes not a preacher nor was he called to be a preacher nor an authority on bible what so ever
4 in order to understand Anything in the New testiment you must as well find it in the Old testiment.
There are many references pretaining to the second Coming of the Lord in the old and New testiment
referred to as" THE DAY OF THE LORD" or "The Lords' Day"and as well "the Evil Day of the Lord"
So if you want to really understand the meaning of the revelation you must First look at the Old profecies pretaining to the same subject.
John (If you look at what is being said) points out what time framehes writing about in his beginning stated in revelation 1:10 I was in the spirit on the Lords Day,And heard behind me a a great voice, as of a trumpet"
This Aint sunday .What we call the lords day.....Its The second comeing
Reading the book in this light youll get a better sense of where youre at in the time frame.Like looking at a legend of a map.then if youll find All the profecies pretaining to The Lords Day in the old books You can do sort of an overlay or comparrison and therefor get a greater understanding on your own never having to rely on someone elses understanding but the true understanding that God would have you to recieve*
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
1 The author of those books is a Fiction writer
2 He said in a 2002 interview on TBN (no less) that the books werent intended to be bible based They were just what he thaught would be an interesting story after seeing something on the subject of the rapture
3 Hes not a preacher nor was he called to be a preacher nor an authority on bible what so ever
4 in order to understand Anything in the New testiment you must as well find it in the Old testiment.
There are many references pretaining to the second Coming of the Lord in the old and New testiment
referred to as" THE DAY OF THE LORD" or "The Lords' Day"and as well "the Evil Day of the Lord"
So if you want to really understand the meaning of the revelation you must First look at the Old profecies pretaining to the same subject.
John (If you look at what is being said) points out what time framehes writing about in his beginning stated in revelation 1:10 I was in the spirit on the Lords Day,And heard behind me a a great voice, as of a trumpet"
This Aint sunday .What we call the lords day.....Its The second comeing
Reading the book in this light youll get a better sense of where youre at in the time frame.Like looking at a legend of a map.then if youll find All the profecies pretaining to The Lords Day in the old books You can do sort of an overlay or comparrison and therefor get a greater understanding on your own never having to rely on someone elses understanding but the true understanding that God would have you to recieve*
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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