The Tribulation and the Church, WHEN?
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I'm just showing you the list of versions so you can see which ones are consistently translated according to the actual Greek word [and words] used in the text! That's all. Plz do not suggest that I am doing otherwise. 
In no way am I suggesting anyone should "take their pick" of whichever one THEY would LIKE for it to say!
In fact, I've been pointing out what it is they actually do say!
[many do not examine it any further than what THEY THINK it says (reading INTO the verse what is actually NOT THERE, and NOT being said! and taken from an entirely DISTINCT CONTEXT, from elsewhere using a different Grk word!)]
In no way am I suggesting anyone should "take their pick" of whichever one THEY would LIKE for it to say!
In fact, I've been pointing out what it is they actually do say!
[many do not examine it any further than what THEY THINK it says
(reading INTO the verse what is actually NOT THERE, and NOT being said! and taken from an entirely DISTINCT CONTEXT, from elsewhere using a different Grk word!)]Thank you, GaryA, for being willing to examine the text. I appreciate your post.
[I had pointed out]:
[I had pointed out]:
TDW:
note: "wake [/watch - G1127]" and "sleep [G2518]" ^ ...
I'm trying to get across to you that verse 10 is speaking of the very thing verse 6 was.
What was that?
[a completely distinct idea from that of the "sleep [G2837]" concept being spoken of in 1Th4:13,14,15[16] ]
note: "wake [/watch - G1127]" and "sleep [G2518]" ^ ...
I'm trying to get across to you that verse 10 is speaking of the very thing verse 6 was.
What was that?
[a completely distinct idea from that of the "sleep [G2837]" concept being spoken of in 1Th4:13,14,15[16]
]
I'm trying to see if we're on the same page regarding the next portion. Thanks.
Go take a really good look at the 'Olivet Discourse' page in the 'Study' section of my website. Be sure to read the 'Comments' column, as well as examine the small chart (Chronological Order) below the main chart.
Hopefully, many of your questions will be answered there.
Then - come back and ask the questions that were not answered there.
[GaryA, addressing your Post #664] That's not a favor to ME, though.
It's fine.
If you want to respond here, okay, and if not, okay too.
[if so... see my 3 Q's in that post (I bolded them there), that is, if you care to discuss here. One of them had to do with "what do you see v.12 saying; and how do vv.12-24a then "fit in" with what verse 12 is saying (in relation, time-wise, with the preceding verses 8-11 and its parallels)? do you see vv.12-24a to be speaking of the "events surrounding 70ad" as I do, or no?]
I'm not going to your website. But please do not take this personally. It's just a thing I consistently do (or don't do, rather).
It's fine.
If you want to respond here, okay, and if not, okay too.
[if so... see my 3 Q's in that post (I bolded them there), that is, if you care to discuss here. One of them had to do with "what do you see v.12 saying; and how do vv.12-24a then "fit in" with what verse 12 is saying (in relation, time-wise, with the preceding verses 8-11 and its parallels)? do you see vv.12-24a to be speaking of the "events surrounding 70ad" as I do, or no?]
I'm not going to your website. But please do not take this personally. It's just a thing I consistently do (or don't do, rather).
That's not a favor to ME, though.
In the specific way that you have worded it here -- no.
It is not quite as simple as that.
And - that is why I refer people to the website - it is already "presented" there. And, I really don't want to have to take [possibly, literally] several hours to "write 1000 words" - on my phone - to try to explain what is even better illustrated on the website.
I'm not going to your website. But please do not take this personally. It's just a thing I consistently do (or don't do, rather).
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
Done with those that sleep in the night - lost people.
NEW TOPIC - Those who are of the day - saved people.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Those who are of the day, God has not appointed to wrath but unto salvation by Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether WE ARE AWAKE (alive) or whether WE SLEEP (die), we live together with Christ.
Seems simple enough to me.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
Done with those that sleep in the night - lost people.
NEW TOPIC - Those who are of the day - saved people.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
Those who are of the day, God has not appointed to wrath but unto salvation by Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether WE ARE AWAKE (alive) or whether WE SLEEP (die), we live together with Christ.
Seems simple enough to me.
I do realize (already) that you define "the great tribulation" as being that "great [length-of-time] period stretching from the events surrounding 70ad to the far future [even future to us] 2nd Coming"... basically [your view], right? I get that.
My question [/questions] involves what you see the text stating, in the verses I requested (that we examine), and how they relate (briefly, not in a long involved response, coz I do somewhat grasp your overall viewpoint already [plz do let me know if my description of your viewpoint is way off, in the paragraph above, or if this is basically how you see it, generally speaking]).
Thanks if you do, and it's fine if you don't care to. (again )
My question [/questions] involves what you see the text stating, in the verses I requested (that we examine), and how they relate (briefly, not in a long involved response, coz I do somewhat grasp your overall viewpoint already [plz do let me know if my description of your viewpoint is way off, in the paragraph above, or if this is basically how you see it, generally speaking]).
Thanks if you do, and it's fine if you don't care to. (again
)
Completely agree with you re: Hymenaeus and Philitus.
2Thess 2:3
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless THE DEPARTURE [aka RAPTURE] comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. "
Absolutely crystal clear.
"It was noted in my previous article that the best translation for the Greek word apostasia is “depart” or “departure.” Gordon Lewis summarizes the usage as follows:
The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men (1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13).4"
https://pre-trib.org/pretribfiles/pdfs/Ice-TheDepartureIn2Thess2-3.pdf
2Thess 2:3
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless THE DEPARTURE [aka RAPTURE] comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. "
Absolutely crystal clear.
"It was noted in my previous article that the best translation for the Greek word apostasia is “depart” or “departure.” Gordon Lewis summarizes the usage as follows:
The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men (1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13).4"
https://pre-trib.org/pretribfiles/pdfs/Ice-TheDepartureIn2Thess2-3.pdf
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Correct.
Correct, the Greek word ('apostasia' ) at its most basic meaning is "DEPARTURE"... and its up to the CONTEXT to tell just "WHAT KIND" of departure is meant (I posted about this, too, here):
https://christianchat.com/threads/the-tribulation-and-the-church-when.186736/post-4006672
https://christianchat.com/threads/the-tribulation-and-the-church-when.186736/post-4006895
https://christianchat.com/threads/the-tribulation-and-the-church-when.186736/post-4006896
Correct, the Greek word ('apostasia' ) at its most basic meaning is "DEPARTURE"... and its up to the CONTEXT to tell just "WHAT KIND" of departure is meant (I posted about this, too, here):
https://christianchat.com/threads/the-tribulation-and-the-church-when.186736/post-4006672
https://christianchat.com/threads/the-tribulation-and-the-church-when.186736/post-4006895
https://christianchat.com/threads/the-tribulation-and-the-church-when.186736/post-4006896
This is utterly preposterous and another indication of the delusions held by dispensationalists.
Tommy Ice is totally off the wall in regards to this:
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either “departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible Page (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608).
The Wycliffe bible has:
2 Thessalonians 2:3 No man disseyue you in ony manere. For but dissencioun come first, and the man of synne be schewid, the sonne of perdicioun.
The LXX used apostasia in Joshua 22.22 and considering the context Paul clearly states the apostasy/departure is from the faith to worshipping the man of sin:
(2 Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.)
Another dispensationalist fail.
Tommy Ice is totally off the wall in regards to this:
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either “departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible Page (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608).
The Wycliffe bible has:
2 Thessalonians 2:3 No man disseyue you in ony manere. For but dissencioun come first, and the man of synne be schewid, the sonne of perdicioun.
The LXX used apostasia in Joshua 22.22 and considering the context Paul clearly states the apostasy/departure is from the faith to worshipping the man of sin:
(2 Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.)
Another dispensationalist fail.
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