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We cannot become a deity,other than the sense we have eternal life,and God does not give His glory to another,and God means supreme being,and how can the saints be a supreme being.
There are no such thing as deities apart from the main Deity,for only God can be God,the supreme being,and the rest is only creation of physical matter.
And what would it matter if the saints are as weak as an ant,or strong as a being that could thump the earth,and it could hurl through space at the speed of light,for one billion miles,for compared to God it is all weakness,and there is no enemies to have to use any power against,and nobody can be as great as God.
Being great,and powerful,has no comparison,or application,or purpose,in heaven,and God is supreme being no matter how great the make up of the saints,and they are still physical matter.
Everything is made of physical matter,except for God,and He did not make anything out of His Spirit,for He is an omnipresent Spirit that fills all space,and His substance will not make anything,but only physical matter will be used to make things.
So what does deity mean other than eternal life,for we are a soul in a glorified body,and the glorified is still made of physical matter although in a different composition than flesh,but still physical matter.
But some people will say we will be great,a god,deity,but it does not mean anything but eternal life,for there is no deity,for they are still physical matter.
Although the saints will be greater than the angels in heaven,for they will have a glorified body like Christ,and the angels are last in the authority structure of God,and are ministering spirits sent to minister to all those that shall inherit eternal life,and the angels desire to look in to the salvation of the saints,for they will have a higher position in heaven than the angels.
There are no such thing as deities apart from the main Deity,for only God can be God,the supreme being,and the rest is only creation of physical matter.
And what would it matter if the saints are as weak as an ant,or strong as a being that could thump the earth,and it could hurl through space at the speed of light,for one billion miles,for compared to God it is all weakness,and there is no enemies to have to use any power against,and nobody can be as great as God.
Being great,and powerful,has no comparison,or application,or purpose,in heaven,and God is supreme being no matter how great the make up of the saints,and they are still physical matter.
Everything is made of physical matter,except for God,and He did not make anything out of His Spirit,for He is an omnipresent Spirit that fills all space,and His substance will not make anything,but only physical matter will be used to make things.
So what does deity mean other than eternal life,for we are a soul in a glorified body,and the glorified is still made of physical matter although in a different composition than flesh,but still physical matter.
But some people will say we will be great,a god,deity,but it does not mean anything but eternal life,for there is no deity,for they are still physical matter.
Although the saints will be greater than the angels in heaven,for they will have a glorified body like Christ,and the angels are last in the authority structure of God,and are ministering spirits sent to minister to all those that shall inherit eternal life,and the angels desire to look in to the salvation of the saints,for they will have a higher position in heaven than the angels.
No, the New testament is what apostles taught. The apostle's creed is the summarization of the church, It was not written by apostles.
This was written by apostles, though:
"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
(Phil 2:5-6)
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Col 2:9)
This was written by apostles, though:
"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
(Phil 2:5-6)
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Col 2:9)
I agree that we will never be God. I never suggest that at all. That is fact for sure. I guess my writing did not bring that point out too clearly.
Yes I do firmly agree that we will never be God of course. The only other point I wish to bring up is that this 'deity', and I do not have another useful word for it, maybe you have one, it is not used in the classical sense as definitely not as God Almighty. his 'deity' is only used to reflect that God and through his son we are UNITED spiritually and therefore by virtue of Gdd's presence, are a part of God's deity. Thus we MUST be of his deity. I hope you can understand this point I am scratching my head in trying to convey to you.
Thanks for sharing valiant
God Bless
Yes I do firmly agree that we will never be God of course. The only other point I wish to bring up is that this 'deity', and I do not have another useful word for it, maybe you have one, it is not used in the classical sense as definitely not as God Almighty. his 'deity' is only used to reflect that God and through his son we are UNITED spiritually and therefore by virtue of Gdd's presence, are a part of God's deity. Thus we MUST be of his deity. I hope you can understand this point I am scratching my head in trying to convey to you.
Thanks for sharing valiant
God Bless
The manhood of Jesus died. The Godhead of Jesus could not die. Jesus in His Godhood WAS Almighty God.
His only true born Son was God as was the Father.
God Almighty, both Father and Son, is/are immortal and always has been. From before time began (John 17.5) He planned to become man in Jesus and die. In a sense you could say that Jesus committed suicide. But you would be foolish to do so.
But God the Son was immortal and always had been (John 17.5). It was His manhood that achieved immortality.
You clearly know nothing about church history. And Constantine favoured the Arians. He was overruled.
But the Apostles had made clear the doctrine of the Triune God, and the earliest fathers confirmed it
your opinion is ridiculous.
His only true born Son was God as was the Father.
God Almighty, both Father and Son, is/are immortal and always has been. From before time began (John 17.5) He planned to become man in Jesus and die. In a sense you could say that Jesus committed suicide. But you would be foolish to do so.
But God the Son was immortal and always had been (John 17.5). It was His manhood that achieved immortality.
You clearly know nothing about church history. And Constantine favoured the Arians. He was overruled.
But the Apostles had made clear the doctrine of the Triune God, and the earliest fathers confirmed it
your opinion is ridiculous.
Anyone in their right mind should not answer this loaded spiritual question until it has qualification, with scriptural support.
The words ‘very nature’ and 'equal to' other phrases can mean many things to different people. Does Jesus have the same ‘very nature’ as God? I do have scripture I can access that does support a more precise meaning of who are Jesus and God. Now if you are serious in your question to me, you must provide this data, else I have to consider this is something you have picked up over time without any thought on the matter, besides what you have been taught.
It does sound like a theory you have picked in the way you have abbreviated the question. There is no sense of care and concern for the recipient of the question, that conveys more meaning as to show understanding, or explanation as presented here, as to get a sincere answer. Maybe you are not concerned, only to provoke an argument. You only know your intentions, not I. I do want to speak for the heart, and maybe you do as well.
In Christ, Always
The words ‘very nature’ and 'equal to' other phrases can mean many things to different people. Does Jesus have the same ‘very nature’ as God? I do have scripture I can access that does support a more precise meaning of who are Jesus and God. Now if you are serious in your question to me, you must provide this data, else I have to consider this is something you have picked up over time without any thought on the matter, besides what you have been taught.
It does sound like a theory you have picked in the way you have abbreviated the question. There is no sense of care and concern for the recipient of the question, that conveys more meaning as to show understanding, or explanation as presented here, as to get a sincere answer. Maybe you are not concerned, only to provoke an argument. You only know your intentions, not I. I do want to speak for the heart, and maybe you do as well.
In Christ, Always
God calls the creatures or beast of the field (666) formed from the dust in respect to men made in his likeness of the invisible God, gods. We are made in his likeness not him made in the likeness of men, turning things upside down
The first commandment warns us not to put ourselves as gods before him.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
"What is he saying? This is blasphemy! Only God can forgive sins!" (Mk 2:7)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us." (J 1:1-2,14)
"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
(Phil 2:5-6)
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Col 2:9)
-----
Do you think these verses are not clear and must be explained somehow? Try it.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us." (J 1:1-2,14)
"...Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men."
(Phil 2:5-6)
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." (Col 2:9)
-----
Do you think these verses are not clear and must be explained somehow? Try it.
Let me ask you dagallen, do you actual know what is a "creed" and what purpose do creeds serve? The word "creed simply means, "I believe." Did you know the "Shema" in the Old Testament is a creed? Deuteronomy 6:4, "hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one." This statement is a creed and creeds are based on the Bible.
As well the Creeds have several purposes in mind. They corrected various heresies (profound doctrinal deviations from Scripture) that arose at the time. The Nicene Creed was "NOT" to invent the Trinity as some believe but to combat the Arian heresy that denied the deity of Jesus Christ. Today this would be the JW's and of course other groups that deny His deity.
The Chalcedon creed addressed the heresies that challenged the biblical teaching concerning Christ's human and divine natures in the one person of Jesus Christ. In a sense creeds serve as an apologetic by helping both define and defend the faith once delievered to the Saints. Jude vs3.
Creeds als affirm essential Christian truth. The Athanasian Creed affirms the truth of the Trinity, Christ's incarnation, resurrection, ascension, second coming, and final judgment. This also shows that you don't know what your talking about when you said, "Creed one, has no trinity, the trinity concept begins with the creed two and ends in creed three, two and added the trinity concept, creed one has no trinity concept." Show me your proof dagallen?
Creeds also help to identify what is essential doctrine from peripheral points to main points. The creeds draw attention to a common, historical Christian heritage because the creeds are a summary expression of biblical truth and they are authoritative and yet subject to the supreme authority of the Scriptures. Creeds are not inspiried or inerrant and they were never intended to replace Scripture.
So they serve as a crucial guide for the church in affirming doctrinal truth, refuting error, and encouraging doctrinal instruction among the faithful. Did you know that 1 Corinthians 15:3,4 is a creed as well as 1 Timothy 2:5,6. Having said that I am now going to define the Trinity.
The doctrine of the trinity is not an "assumption." It is the normative systematic theology of God in Christianity and is BASED on the fact that the Bible is explicit in telling us that there is, was and forever will be only ONE God AND the fact that the Bible IDENTIFIES three (and only three) persons as God.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
As well the Creeds have several purposes in mind. They corrected various heresies (profound doctrinal deviations from Scripture) that arose at the time. The Nicene Creed was "NOT" to invent the Trinity as some believe but to combat the Arian heresy that denied the deity of Jesus Christ. Today this would be the JW's and of course other groups that deny His deity.
The Chalcedon creed addressed the heresies that challenged the biblical teaching concerning Christ's human and divine natures in the one person of Jesus Christ. In a sense creeds serve as an apologetic by helping both define and defend the faith once delievered to the Saints. Jude vs3.
Creeds als affirm essential Christian truth. The Athanasian Creed affirms the truth of the Trinity, Christ's incarnation, resurrection, ascension, second coming, and final judgment. This also shows that you don't know what your talking about when you said, "Creed one, has no trinity, the trinity concept begins with the creed two and ends in creed three, two and added the trinity concept, creed one has no trinity concept." Show me your proof dagallen?
Creeds also help to identify what is essential doctrine from peripheral points to main points. The creeds draw attention to a common, historical Christian heritage because the creeds are a summary expression of biblical truth and they are authoritative and yet subject to the supreme authority of the Scriptures. Creeds are not inspiried or inerrant and they were never intended to replace Scripture.
So they serve as a crucial guide for the church in affirming doctrinal truth, refuting error, and encouraging doctrinal instruction among the faithful. Did you know that 1 Corinthians 15:3,4 is a creed as well as 1 Timothy 2:5,6. Having said that I am now going to define the Trinity.
The doctrine of the trinity is not an "assumption." It is the normative systematic theology of God in Christianity and is BASED on the fact that the Bible is explicit in telling us that there is, was and forever will be only ONE God AND the fact that the Bible IDENTIFIES three (and only three) persons as God.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
No, they are not obvious to everyone.
I guess the initial question you gave me was to give my meaning of Phil 2:5-6? Is that what you want me to do? Let me know.
It would be also great if you could contribute in this conversation as an equal and not as a judge. I did not know I was entering an inquisition as of old, or actually on trial for some great crime.
And where did I speak of 'who can forgiving sin' in you rant. I do not remember talking on this subject in my last note back to you? You must have me mixed up with someone else. Maybe you can contribute and find the passages of scripture on this subject that supports you belief on that subject as well. Then I can give you mine. Let us come to some type of agreement, please.
In Christ, Always
I guess the initial question you gave me was to give my meaning of Phil 2:5-6? Is that what you want me to do? Let me know.
It would be also great if you could contribute in this conversation as an equal and not as a judge. I did not know I was entering an inquisition as of old, or actually on trial for some great crime.
And where did I speak of 'who can forgiving sin' in you rant. I do not remember talking on this subject in my last note back to you? You must have me mixed up with someone else. Maybe you can contribute and find the passages of scripture on this subject that supports you belief on that subject as well. Then I can give you mine. Let us come to some type of agreement, please.
In Christ, Always
And anyone in their right mind akap should not make statements in which they cannot back up by Scripture. You have at John 5:17,18 the following: "But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." vs18, For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because (or why?) He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD."
How about John 8:57-59? "The Jews therefore said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old and have You seen Abraham? vs58, Jesus said to them, Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham sprang into existence, I am." vs59, Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple." Here again akap, why did the Jews want to kill Jesus?
Then there is John 10:30-31, "I and My Father, we are one." vs31, "The Jews took up stone AGAIN to stone Him." Why akap? John 19:7, "The Jews answered him, (that is Pilate at the trial of Jesus) We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because (or why?) He made Himself out the Son of God." What law did Jesus break for claiming He was the Son of God akap?
Then there is the trial record at Matthew 26:61-66. "This man stated, "I am able to destroy the temple of God and to rebuild it in three days." (Of course most of us know that Jesus said He would raise His own body John 2:19 but the Apostle John said John 2:21, "But He was speaking of the temple of His body.) The Jews thought Jesus was going to destroy the actual temple.
Continuing on to Matthew 26:62, "And the high preist stood up and said to Him, Do You make no answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?" vs63, But Jesus kept silent, And the high priest (Caiaphas) said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God."
The high priest is asking Jesus Christ to swear an oath and tell them the Jews two things. One, is Jesus the Messiah/Christ and two, are you the Son of God." Vs64, "Jesus said to him, You have said it yourself, nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (At Luke 22:70 Jesus simply says, "Yes, I am) Vs65, "Then the high priest tore his robes, saying, He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? You have now heard the blasphemy; vs66, what do you think? They answered and said, He is deserving of death."
So what was the blasphemy that Jesus committed according to the Jews that He should die akap? Or to put it another way, what was it that Jesus stated in the verses I provided that caused the Jews to want to kill Him? And here's another question? Why would the Jews want to kill Jesus for claiming He is the Messiah/Christ and the Son of God since the Jews also believe that their the sons of God as well?
And btw akap, none of this is some theory just made up and some of us do care so for you to continue to make "assumptions" shows again that you think your some kind of mind reader and you know the thoughts and intents of ones heart. If Jesus Christ is not God then why did the Jews want to kill Him for claiming He was the Messiah/Christ the Son of God or at John 10:33, Make Yourself out God?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
How about John 8:57-59? "The Jews therefore said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old and have You seen Abraham? vs58, Jesus said to them, Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham sprang into existence, I am." vs59, Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple." Here again akap, why did the Jews want to kill Jesus?
Then there is John 10:30-31, "I and My Father, we are one." vs31, "The Jews took up stone AGAIN to stone Him." Why akap? John 19:7, "The Jews answered him, (that is Pilate at the trial of Jesus) We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because (or why?) He made Himself out the Son of God." What law did Jesus break for claiming He was the Son of God akap?
Then there is the trial record at Matthew 26:61-66. "This man stated, "I am able to destroy the temple of God and to rebuild it in three days." (Of course most of us know that Jesus said He would raise His own body John 2:19 but the Apostle John said John 2:21, "But He was speaking of the temple of His body.) The Jews thought Jesus was going to destroy the actual temple.
Continuing on to Matthew 26:62, "And the high preist stood up and said to Him, Do You make no answer? What is it that these men are testifying against You?" vs63, But Jesus kept silent, And the high priest (Caiaphas) said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God."
The high priest is asking Jesus Christ to swear an oath and tell them the Jews two things. One, is Jesus the Messiah/Christ and two, are you the Son of God." Vs64, "Jesus said to him, You have said it yourself, nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you shall see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (At Luke 22:70 Jesus simply says, "Yes, I am) Vs65, "Then the high priest tore his robes, saying, He has blasphemed! What further need do we have of witnesses? You have now heard the blasphemy; vs66, what do you think? They answered and said, He is deserving of death."
So what was the blasphemy that Jesus committed according to the Jews that He should die akap? Or to put it another way, what was it that Jesus stated in the verses I provided that caused the Jews to want to kill Him? And here's another question? Why would the Jews want to kill Jesus for claiming He is the Messiah/Christ and the Son of God since the Jews also believe that their the sons of God as well?
And btw akap, none of this is some theory just made up and some of us do care so for you to continue to make "assumptions" shows again that you think your some kind of mind reader and you know the thoughts and intents of ones heart. If Jesus Christ is not God then why did the Jews want to kill Him for claiming He was the Messiah/Christ the Son of God or at John 10:33, Make Yourself out God?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Well can you tell me the true meaning of it? I am not being offensive or sarcastic. I really want to know want you believe it to be so we can have a basis for discussion. And I mean an uplifting discussion from the spirit within, for both of us, and not one that comes from the flesh that causes us to be not Christ-like.
I hope you are not already thinking that ‘everyone knows the true meaning, and what’s wrong with this person.’ This type of thinking had cause so many problems in those wanting to walk in the light, or remain there. It's like saying do you believe that 9/11 was an inside job? You might say to that question, 'of course everyone does'
Well let me very briefly synoptise (I don’t know if that is really a word), the Philippians passage.
Context: Paul (with Timothy) is saying to believers that they should have an attitude like Jesus Christ, right. They were speaking of being like minded with Christ, having the same one love, being in the same one spirit, and the same one purpose. we should look at other peoples’ interest ahead of our own... Phil 2:1-4. One of the reasons I end with In Christ, always, is to let me know that is where I want to be..in all that Paul says here and more...
Now in verse 4 we have the Greek word morphe (with an ending accent on the ‘e’) that has caused many to have different opinions of what this entire section means.
Bluntly without going into detail it means outer appearance or form and never ‘inner’ form or nature. We just cannot take for face value the modern English or other language translations without look at the Greek or even Latin in this case. People do make mistakes…another subject of discussion
So Paul was saying that a believer can have to the mannerisms, demeanor, voice and works as Christ. You see also we can never emulate his inner nature if it was exactly God’s inner nature. That would be impossible. Verse 7 actually does translate the word for outer form correctly (appearance) as confirmation of was I just said.
Now we see that Paul says that Christ yields his entire human spirit and will to ‘nothing’ as if he was a doormat.
Now for another key area: Because Jesus the Christ was empowered by God (since his anointing – full spirit of God with him) and God’s spirit was speaking through him during his mission from the start of it, he did not consider himself beneath his Father and considering it as a sin/crime/robbery. They had the same purpose, as it says in other scripture, that they were one. These scripture complement each other…I need to pause now so you can know my meaning.
In Christ, always.
I hope you are not already thinking that ‘everyone knows the true meaning, and what’s wrong with this person.’ This type of thinking had cause so many problems in those wanting to walk in the light, or remain there. It's like saying do you believe that 9/11 was an inside job? You might say to that question, 'of course everyone does'
Well let me very briefly synoptise (I don’t know if that is really a word), the Philippians passage.
Context: Paul (with Timothy) is saying to believers that they should have an attitude like Jesus Christ, right. They were speaking of being like minded with Christ, having the same one love, being in the same one spirit, and the same one purpose. we should look at other peoples’ interest ahead of our own... Phil 2:1-4. One of the reasons I end with In Christ, always, is to let me know that is where I want to be..in all that Paul says here and more...
Now in verse 4 we have the Greek word morphe (with an ending accent on the ‘e’) that has caused many to have different opinions of what this entire section means.
Bluntly without going into detail it means outer appearance or form and never ‘inner’ form or nature. We just cannot take for face value the modern English or other language translations without look at the Greek or even Latin in this case. People do make mistakes…another subject of discussion
So Paul was saying that a believer can have to the mannerisms, demeanor, voice and works as Christ. You see also we can never emulate his inner nature if it was exactly God’s inner nature. That would be impossible. Verse 7 actually does translate the word for outer form correctly (appearance) as confirmation of was I just said.
Now we see that Paul says that Christ yields his entire human spirit and will to ‘nothing’ as if he was a doormat.
Now for another key area: Because Jesus the Christ was empowered by God (since his anointing – full spirit of God with him) and God’s spirit was speaking through him during his mission from the start of it, he did not consider himself beneath his Father and considering it as a sin/crime/robbery. They had the same purpose, as it says in other scripture, that they were one. These scripture complement each other…I need to pause now so you can know my meaning.
In Christ, always.
J
i agree the Shema is a creed, but unlike most all the other creeds found by the new roman church, the Shema is actually word for word with the bible.
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
the Shema was a big deal in the days of Jesus and the 12, Jews proclaimed this many times a day. in my forty years i dont remember this ever being proclaimed in church. i wonder why?
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
the Shema was a big deal in the days of Jesus and the 12, Jews proclaimed this many times a day. in my forty years i dont remember this ever being proclaimed in church. i wonder why?
Here's a couple of more creeds in the NT jaybird. What about these and did you read them? So they serve as a crucial guide for the church in affirming doctrinal truth, refuting error, and encouraging doctrinal instruction among the faithful. Did you know that 1 Corinthians 15:3,4 is a creed as well as 1 Timothy 2:5,6. Having said that I am now going to define the Trinity.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto