The Trinity Discussion

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Dagallen

Guest
No. it is the heretical belief. God is single and Threeness. He talks with Himself, Father to Son and Spirit, He would have been very lonely before creation otherwise :)


Or are you suggesting Jesus, and Paul, and Peter etc were pagan? lol
Jesus taught the singleness of his God, his Father, no I am not saying that Jesus, Paul, Peter we're Pagans, what i am saying is that many people make them appear as such, Jesus taught, his God, his Father is not plural but is the one and only God, singleness.
 
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Dagallen

Guest
No. it is the heretical belief. God is single and Threeness. He talks with Himself, Father to Son and Spirit, He would have been very lonely before creation otherwise :)


Or are you suggesting Jesus, and Paul, and Peter etc were pagan? lol
Jesus taught the singleness of his God, his Father, no I am not saying that Jesus, Paul, Peter we're Pagans, what i am saying is that many people make them appear as such, Jesus taught, his God, his Father is not plural but is the one and only God, singleness.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Jesus taught the singleness of his God, his Father, no I am not saying that Jesus, Paul, Peter we're Pagans, what i am saying is that many people make them appear as such, Jesus taught, his God, his Father is not plural but is the one and only God, singleness.
It seems to me that you try to attack this or that, but you actually do not have any working theory how it is.

Can you define your view? I am sure that immediatelly 10 verses will pop out to contradict you and you will have to explain them to not say what they do say.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Jesus taught the singleness of his God, his Father
you wish. Read Him again.



no I am not saying that Jesus, Paul, Peter we're Pagans, what i am saying is that many people make them appear as such, Jesus taught, his God, his Father is not plural but is the one and only God, singleness.
Sadly you are ignorant of the very doctrine you are combatting. God is one (plural noun singular verb). The Father is One, the Son is one, the Spirit is One, but they are One God (Elohim).

Read John's Gospel asking that God will open your blind eyes. That is your only hope. 'The god of this world has blinded the eyes of those who do not believe, lest the light of the glory of the good news of Christ Who is the true image of God should shine unto them, -- to give the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ'. (2 Cor 4.4-6)
 
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Dagallen

Guest
you wish. Read Him again.





Sadly you are ignorant of the very doctrine you are combatting. God is one (plural noun singular verb). The Father is One, the Son is one, the Spirit is One, but they are One God (Elohim).

Read John's Gospel asking that God will open your blind eyes. That is your only hope. 'The god of this world has blinded the eyes of those who do not believe, lest the light of the glory of the good news of Christ Who is the true image of God should shine unto them, -- to give the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ'. (2 Cor 4.4-6)
A singular God who becomes a plural God and then return back to a singular God, would be a God who changes, God does not change, as the beast who is called the devil, who is called Satan, shall deceive the world, as the world is in a state of deception, again God does not change from a singular God to a plural God and back to a singular God, my eyes were blind, just like your eyes are but my eyes are now open, you are a part of the deception, as I over came the deception. Will the scriptures be fulfilled ? Yes ! Therefore I ask you, how does the beast deceive the whole world ?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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A singular God who becomes a plural God and then return back to a singular God, would be a God who changes, God does not change, as the beast who is called the devil, who is called Satan, shall deceive the world, as the world is in a state of deception, again God does not change from a singular God to a plural God and back to a singular God, my eyes were blind, just like your eyes are but my eyes are now open, you are a part of the deception, as I over came the deception. Will the scriptures be fulfilled ? Yes ! Therefore I ask you, how does the beast deceive the whole world ?
Can you fully and properly define your view?
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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A singular God who becomes a plural God and then return back to a singular God, would be a God who changes, God does not change, as the beast who is called the devil, who is called Satan, shall deceive the world, as the world is in a state of deception, again God does not change from a singular God to a plural God and back to a singular God, my eyes were blind, just like your eyes are but my eyes are now open, you are a part of the deception, as I over came the deception. Will the scriptures be fulfilled ? Yes ! Therefore I ask you, how does the beast deceive the whole world ?
Well dagallen, there is your "BIG/HUGE" problem right in your very first sentence when you said, "A singular God who becomes a plural God and then turn back to a singular God, would be a God who changes."

It's impossible for God to become another god and then revert back to a singular God. The "ONE AND ONLY GOD" became a man, not another god and then says according to your thinking, "Gee, I think I'll turn myself back to god again like I use to be." :rolleyes:

There is nothing that precludes God or prevents God from becoming a man just like the Bible "explicitly" teaches from John 1:1-14. John 1:14, "And the Word/Jesus became flesh, i.e a human being. And btw, Jesus did not revert or change back to God because He has always been God. In fact, Jesus Christ is in the form of a man right now and will always been in that form forever and ever. At the culmanation of everything Christians will be worshiping Jesus Christ and if Jesus is just a man like you say and you deny His deity you will "NOT" be there to worship are Lord and God. Why do you think at Hebrews 1:6 it says, "And Let all the angels of God worship Him?"

And finally, you did not address my post here: No dagallen. Look at it this way? Man's nature is that of human and every man woman and child has the nature of human. You are a "distinct" person from your mother or father and other humans yet you all share the same exact nature. If I were looking at you I would be seeing you, not your father or mother.

God's nature is that of deity and His nature is what separates Him from all that is not deity. So when I look at Jesus Christ I'm looking at God the Son. I am not looking at God the Father because God the Father cannot be seen. I can't even be looking at God the Holy Spirit because He cannot be seen.

So when Jesus Christ told Philp at John 14:9, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" He did not mean that He/Jesus is God the Father. Jesus Christ is God the Son because Jesus Christ is the ONE AND ONLY physical manifestation of God the Father. They are "NOT" two gods or three gods they are three distinct persons of the One God just like you a distinct person from your parents but what you have in common (like I said) is you have the same nature. :eek:

And here you are accusing us of being blind dagallen? Did it ever occur to you or did you ever ask yourself, "What if I'm wrong?" If your wrong according to our position, your lost and will be going down south, period. If your right then please tell me where those of us who oppose you will end up? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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A singular God who becomes a plural God and then return back to a singular God, would be a God who changes, God does not change,
He has always been Elohim (3 plural) since Genesis 1.1, He has not changed. Only men's conception of Him has changed through the coming of Jesus Christ into the world. It was necessary for God to prove his Oneness before He revealed a plurality within that oneness.



as the beast who is called the devil, who is called Satan, shall deceive the world
lol you are mixed up. the beast is not the Devil. One manifestation of him was the Roman Catholic church.

Satan has already deceived the whole world.

, as the world is in a state of deception,
what sect are you blinded by?
 
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Dagallen

Guest
Can you fully and properly define your view?
Elohim, God is a singular verb, as Elohim is grammatically singular, as trinitarians continue to push to make the singular Elohim a plural Elohim, as the plural elohim was used for false God's, as trinitarians separate the Elohim into three separate and distinct beings, calling each God who are separate from one another, by doing so, one must confess, they are saying there are three Gods ( plural ) Elohim himself is not plural. One does not make three plural, just as three plural does not make one.
 
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Dagallen

Guest
He has always been Elohim (3 plural) since Genesis 1.1, He has not changed. Only men's conception of Him has changed through the coming of Jesus Christ into the world. It was necessary for God to prove his Oneness before He revealed a plurality within that oneness.





lol you are mixed up. the beast is not the Devil. One manifestation of him was the Roman Catholic church.

Satan has already deceived the whole world.



what sect are you blinded by?
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil and Satan, which deceives the whole world, he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him. ( He deceives the whole world and still is doing so, even today.)
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Elohim, God is a singular verb, as Elohim is grammatically singular, as trinitarians continue to push to make the singular Elohim a plural Elohim, as the plural elohim was used for false God's, as trinitarians separate the Elohim into three separate and distinct beings, calling each God who are separate from one another, by doing so, one must confess, they are saying there are three Gods ( plural ) Elohim himself is not plural. One does not make three plural, just as three plural does not make one.
Try it without "trinitarians do this or that".

Look at the Athanasius or helvetian creed or any other creed regarding God and try to formulate something like that from your point of view. And we can test it in the light of Scriptures.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Elohim, God is a singular verb, as Elohim is grammatically singular,
I suspect you do not know Hebrew. As it happens I do. Elohim is the plural of eloah and refers to at least three. It is used with a singular verb when used of God because God is a plural oneness,


as trinitarians continue to push to make the singular Elohim a plural Elohim,
-- im is a masculine plural ending, The singular ending is --ah. Ask any Jew who knows Hebrew,

as the plural elohim was used for false God's,
Elohim was the plural of 'god'. Thus it would also be used of false gods,

as trinitarians separate the Elohim into three separate and distinct beings, calling each God who are separate from one another
,

they are separate IN one another no FROM one anoter. He/They are one God in Threeness.

by doing so, one must confess, they are saying there are three Gods ( plural )
lol who are you to tell them what they are saying? You don't even understand the doctrine of the triune God.

Elohim himself is not plural.
Elohim is the plural of Eloah. Masculine nouns take im as an ending to indicate plurality.

One does not make three plural, just as three plural does not make one.
In human terms, no, but God is not human. He is both One and Three. LEARN HEBREW,
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by valiant
He has always been Elohim (3 plural) since Genesis 1.1, He has not changed. Only men's conception of Him has changed through the coming of Jesus Christ into the world. It was necessary for God to prove his Oneness before He revealed a plurality within that oneness.

lol you are mixed up. the beast is not the Devil. One manifestation of him was the Roman Catholic church.

Satan has already deceived the whole world.

what sect are you blinded by?
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the devil and Satan, which deceives the whole world, he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him. ( He deceives the whole world and still is doing so, even today.)
That is what I said LOL

Come on, what strange church do you belong to? Or are you ashamed of it?
 
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Dagallen

Guest
I suspect you do not know Hebrew. As it happens I do. Elohim is the plural of eloah and refers to at least three. It is used with a singular verb when used of God because God is a plural oneness,




-- im is a masculine plural ending, The singular ending is --ah. Ask any Jew who knows Hebrew,



Elohim was the plural of 'god'. Thus it would also be used of false gods,

,

they are separate IN one another no FROM one anoter. He/They are one God in Threeness.



lol who are you to tell them what they are saying? You don't even understand the doctrine of the triune God.



Elohim is the plural of Eloah. Masculine nouns take im as an ending to indicate plurality.



In human terms, no, but God is not human. He is both One and Three. LEARN HEBREW,
God is one who works through many, does that mean that there are many God's ?
 
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Isa 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

One God who is a Holy Spirit,Father a title for God,the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

3 relationships God has with His children designated by titles.

Father-parent of the saints,and Father of spirits.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints.

Holy Spirit-God's invisible relationship to the saints.

But the same God with no distinction of persons.

They say there is 3 persons in one God,so that would seem like it would take all 3 persons to make one God,but then say God the Father,God the Son,and God the Holy Spirit,meaning there is 3 Gods.

So is there 3 persons in one God,or 3 Gods.

God said thou shalt have no other gods before Me,and does believing in a trinity give glory to God.

When the Roman Empire embraced Christianity they did not get rid of their religious ways,and held unto them,and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scripture,which a trinity is well known in pagan religions,and a female goddess.

It appears when the Protestant movement happened that they did not protest enough,and to this day.

Old Testamnent the Father said,I will reveal My new name to the Jews,and speak to them,behold it is I.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name.

The Son shall be called the everlasting Father,and Jesus said if you seen Him you have seen the Father,and the words He speaks are not of His own,but the Father that dwells in Him,He does the works.

Jesus said when He resurrects to heaven do not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father,but in another passage of scripture Jesus said,when He resurrects to heaven to ask Him,and He will do it.

The Son shall be called Jesus,for He shall save His people from their sins,and the Son inherited the name of the Father.

Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

The name of Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,is Jesus.Jews,Gentiles,and Samaritans,in the book of Acts were baptized in Jesus' name,and Luke says baptism,remission of sins,is to be preached in Jesus' name.

Baptism in Father,Son,and Holy Spirit,was interpreted as in Jesus' name,and Jesus is telling them not to make a trinity,for He created all things,came in flesh,and dwells in the saints,for He said,I will not leave you comfortless,but I will come to you.

Right hand of God represents power,wisdom,and salvation.

There is one throne in heaven,and one who sits on the throne,which is the throne of God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

There is one God,and mediator between God and men,the man Christ,for only a sinless man can be the Savior.

No person is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh,and reconciled mankind to Himself in the person of Jesus Christ,God and man in harmony.

Jesus said all power is given unto Him in heaven and earth.

David said,the LORD said unto my Lord,sit on My right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.

The Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered,the last one being death,and when they are conquered,then the Son shall submit to God,the Father,that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power,be at His right hand,until His enemies are conquered,then when they are conquered the Son shall submit to the Father,cease exercising the throne of power,stop being at the right hand,that God may be all in all.

God is ruling through the man Christ Jesus for the sake of His saints,but one day the Son being at the right hand will cease.

Jesus is the only person we will see in heaven,which if we see Jesus we have seen the Father,the only visible manifestation of God we will see.

Let us make man in our image.

God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

The prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world.

All the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Adam created in the image of God.Adam was made after the figure of Him who was to come.

The image of God is Jesus Christ that God made Adam after that image.

God had the plan to come in the future manifest in flesh,before He created Adam,and created Adam in that image that he would show up in the future,an innocent nature in flesh.

Since God had the plan to come in the future in flesh,and created Adam in that image,then Let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus.

Let us make man in our image is a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God,and is God,and the man Christ Jesus,which the man Christ Jesus can exist in the beginning before He is born,for God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened.
 
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Dagallen

Guest
Can you properly and fully define your view of God?
God is Spirit, his Spirit is Holy, his Spirit is the Holy Spirit, his Spirit is the Spirit that gives life, by giving of his Spirit, God of Spirit became the Father of the living, as all spirits shall go back to God who gave it, he is the only one and true God singular, who gave his Son life.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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God is one who works through many, does that mean that there are many God's ?
God is One in Threeness. It means that there is One God, Who intercommunicates with Himself.

There are of course other gods, But they are no gods.

Which church do you belong to? Or are you ashamed of it?
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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God is Spirit, his Spirit is Holy, his Spirit is the Holy Spirit, his Spirit is the Spirit that gives life, by giving of his Spirit, God of Spirit became the Father of the living, as all spirits shall go back to God who gave it, he is the only one and true God singular, who gave his Son life.
God is Spirit, the Father is Spirit, the Son is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit.

The Son has life in Himself. Why then did He need to be given it by the Father?
 
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Dagallen

Guest
God is One in Threeness. It means that there is One God, Who intercommunicates with Himself.

There are of course other gods, But they are no gods.

Which church do you belong to? Or are you ashamed of it?
The church that is in my life, you would not understand nor believe, therefore to answer such a wuestion would be of no affect, ashamed of it ? Not at all, in fact I share it where ever I go, where ever I am and I thank God for it, as it brings true peace in my life.