The Trinity.

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CS1

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May 23, 2012
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All of my theology is not my own, but directly from the Bible.

I'd love it if all Christians could agree and believe the same. They certainly should, we all have the same Bible - basically. It would make life much easier if we all believed the same.

Short of that, I'm happy to correct any and all false teaching as it is very easy to see what aligns with the Scriptures and what does not.

God bless.
And is many here in context to the " Trinity is also directly from the Bible.
Trinity is not a false Doctrine. Most are happy to correct those who disagree with them Theologically. Yet they lack the full explanation understanding. One would love for all Christians to agree with one person. Yet Orthodox Christianity has stood the test of time. It is those outside Biblical norms that push the false narratives and then try to call others wrong.

Those who are hyper Calvinist and extreme Charismatics. They argue about the Salvation, yet they are saved. Both do more to hurt the Kingdom of God than help it. Legalism elite the scriptures to take out of Context.

They added this, and they added that to the word of God. Blah, blah, blah. God is fully able to keep HIS word.

Do you know what was added to the Bible that everyone reads and has not complained about once?

Chapters and verses in the Bible were added. FYI, Paul and the Apostles and Prophets did not write using Chapters and verses.

Many of you miss the context because you think it has ended at the end of the verse or the Chapter. Circle your wagon around one text.

Stand is a circular Firing squad. But don't tell me about what was added. Until you learn your bible.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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The trinity does not stand up to that.

It does stand up to that. It is being irrationally denied. There are three that each are called God which proves the Trinity concept. Trinity deniers ignore this fact and these scriptures:

The Father is God

2Pe_1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The Son is God

Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God and Christ was that same Rock.


Holy Spirit is God

Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Here lying to the Holy Spirit is called lying to God.


To believe in the Trinity is to believe these three things are true, that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God in their own right and work together as One.
 
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The Holy Spirit is neither God the Father nor the Lord Jesus Christ. That is very clear from Scripture. So the real question is "Why is there so much opposition to the Holy Trinity?"
Obviously because it is a foreign doctrine to the Holy Bible.

If it wasn't, there wouldn't be any opposition to it.

John 14:21, 23
Romans 8:9-11
 
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Lying to the Holy Spirit is indeed LYING to God, because the Holy Spirit in Acts Chapter [5] is:

9
ο δε πετροϲ προϲ αυ

την τι ουν οτι ϲυ

νεφωνηθη ϋμι

πειραϲαι το πνα

κυ ϊδου οι ποδεϲ

των θαψαντων

τον ανδρα ϲου επι

τη θυρα και εξοιϲου

9 And Peter said to her: Why is it that you have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord?


so, the Holy Spirit, in Acts Chapter 5, is correctly known as the Spirit of the Lord!
 
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And is many here in context to the " Trinity is also directly from the Bible.
Trinity is not a false Doctrine. Most are happy to correct those who disagree with them Theologically. Yet they lack the full explanation understanding. One would love for all Christians to agree with one person. Yet Orthodox Christianity has stood the test of time. It is those outside Biblical norms that push the false narratives and then try to call others wrong.

Those who are hyper Calvinist and extreme Charismatics. They argue about the Salvation, yet they are saved. Both do more to hurt the Kingdom of God than help it. Legalism elite the scriptures to take out of Context.

They added this, and they added that to the word of God. Blah, blah, blah. God is fully able to keep HIS word.

Do you know what was added to the Bible that everyone reads and has not complained about once?

Chapters and verses in the Bible were added. FYI, Paul and the Apostles and Prophets did not write using Chapters and verses.

Many of you miss the context because you think it has ended at the end of the verse or the Chapter. Circle your wagon around one text.

Stand is a circular Firing squad. But don't tell me about what was added. Until you learn your bible.
I know my Bible pretty well.

And Orthodox Christianity has been submerged in controversy since around 300 AD.

Most of the millions of Christians who were murdered by the Catholic church in those many early centuries were protesting the trinity.

Fact.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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All the naysayers should read and study this article.
A Defense of 1 John 5:7 https://www.wayoflife.org/reports/a-defense-of-1-john.php
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.
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Thus, a careful distinction needs to be made between the actual text used by Cyprian and his theological interpretations. As Metzger says, the Old Latin text used by Cyprian shows no evidence of this gloss. On the other side of the ledger, however, Cyprian does show evidence of putting a theological spin on 1 John 5:7. In his De catholicae ecclesiae unitate 6, he says, “The Lord says, ‘I and the Father are one’; and again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, ‘And these three are one.’” What is evident is that Cyprian’s interpretation of 1 John 5:7 is that the three witnesses refer to the Trinity.
basically, the J. COMMA NEVER existed, but Cyprian took it upon himself to include the Trinity in Jesus Statement of [I and the Father are ONE].
What do you think about this excerpt from the article Nehemiah6 posted the other day in his Post #480, where it states,

“Metzger claims that ‘the passage is quoted by none of the Greek Fathers.’ Such a bold assertion is also misleading because Gregory of Nazanzius (a Greek Church Father from the fourth century), although not directly quoting the passage, specifically alludes to the passage and objects to the grammatical structure if the Comma is omitted (Metzger, on the other hand, would have one to believe that the Greek Church Fathers knew nothing of the passage)” (Jesse Boyd, “And These Three Are One: A Case for the Authenticity of 1 John 5:7-8,” 1999, http://www.ovrlnd.com/Bible/casefor1john57.html).

[end quoting; bold mine]
Your thoughts ( @The_Watchers_2017 )?


[BTW, GoN's quote is found at the link supplied by Neh6... in the top quote of this post]
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I know my Bible pretty well.

And Orthodox Christianity has been submerged in controversy since around 300 AD.

Most of the millions of Christians who were murdered by the Catholic church in those many early centuries were protesting the trinity.

Fact.
The church has always been embroiled in controversy from its inception.
Do you have a source for your fact?
 
Jun 20, 2022
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What do you think about this excerpt from the article Nehemiah6 posted the other day in his Post #480, where it states,



Your thoughts ( @The_Watchers_2017 )?
my thoughts are, if it was legit, and not the OPINION of Cyprian, JEROME, would have included it in the Original Vulgate.

as it is now, there's Parenthesis indicating this has been added later after Jerome's death.

it's a FAKE, and always will be.

if you want to believe a Lie, who am i, to stop you?

enjoy!


7 quia tres sunt qui testimonium dant

And there are Three who give testimony (in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.)^

see, how it is written, with parenthesis to show it's an add in?


but when you Translate: quia tres sunt qui testimonium dant

it means: And there are Three who give testimony

so, the Parenthesis part is not even written in LATIN, it's just added in in English
 
Oct 14, 2023
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It does stand up to that. It is being irrationally denied. There are three that each are called God which proves the Trinity concept. Trinity deniers ignore this fact and these scriptures:

The Father is God

2Pe_1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The Son is God

Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Jesus is God because the OT says Israel's Rock was God and Christ was that same Rock.


Holy Spirit is God

Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2 And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Here lying to the Holy Spirit is called lying to God.


To believe in the Trinity is to believe these three things are true, that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each God in their own right and work together as One.
Most don't disagree with any of that, they just don't agree that it means what you believe it means.

Explain Romans 8:9-11 in another way than what it obviously means.

The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God Almighty. It's not another "person."

Jesus IS God Almighty. And He says Himself that HE comes to live with the believer.

John 14:21

Not some third party.
 
Jun 20, 2022
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my thoughts are, if it was legit, and not the OPINION of Cyprian, JEROME, would have included it in the Original Vulgate.

as it is now, there's Parenthesis indicating this has been added later after Jerome's death.

it's a FAKE, and always will be.

if you want to believe a Lie, who am i, to stop you?

enjoy!


7 quia tres sunt qui testimonium dant

And there are Three who give testimony (in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.)^

see, how it is written, with parenthesis to show it's an add in?


but when you Translate: quia tres sunt qui testimonium dant

it means: And there are Three who give testimony

so, the Parenthesis part is not even written in LATIN, it's just added in in English
PROOF they Bastardized the Bible!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,062
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I know my Bible pretty well.

And Orthodox Christianity has been submerged in controversy since around 300 AD.

Most of the millions of Christians who were murdered by the Catholic church in those early centuries were protesting the trinity.

Fact.
The concept of the Trinity came from the text that speaks about the Eternal Godhead.

It was a term used to battle those who attacked the deity of Christ. You don't know your church history. Gnosticism had raised its ugly head and the Church council. Combated it very well. And the word of God describes them and provides the ability to apprehend the Trinity.
 
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Jun 20, 2022
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^
think about Another Comforter, 1 the physical presence, and the other, the Spirit presence, of the LORD
 
Oct 14, 2023
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The concept of the Trinity came from the text that speaks about the Eternal Godhead.

It was a term used to battle those who attacked the deity of Christ. You don't know your church history. Gnosticism had raised its ugly head and the Church council. Combated it very well. And the word of God describes them and provides the ability to apprehend the Trinity.
I know church history very well and much of the writings of the church fathers as well. They don't hold a candle to the Bible itself.

Much of what the church fathers wrote was just as controversial as anything else today. The Bible is always the final Word.

And there is no teaching of the trinity contained therein.

I guess you don't know your Bible.
 
Oct 14, 2023
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The concept of the Trinity came from the text that speaks about the Eternal Godhead.
All Godhead ever meant originally was God the Father. It is translated from the Greek as meaning the nature of God, not a trinity.

The trinity is a completely fabricated concept.

If it were legit, it would be spoken of and taught in many places in the Bible. It is not.

All we have are many cherry-picked verses that trinity proponents point to and say "See, that's talking about the trinity!".

The problem is that the foundational teaching, that they are hoping nobody will ask for, doesn't exist.
 
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^
think about Another Comforter, 1 the physical presence, and the other, the Spirit presence, of the LORD
when 2 or more are gathered together in MY NAME i AM in the Midst.

now, it makes sense.

Jesus, the LORD, has a physical presence and left us with His Spirit presence.


and Peter verifies this concept i just DISCOVERED!!

9 And Peter said to her: Why is it that you have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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my thoughts are, if it was legit, and not the OPINION of Cyprian, JEROME, would have included it in the Original Vulgate.

as it is now, there's Parenthesis indicating this has been added later after Jerome's death.

it's a FAKE, and always will be.

if you want to believe a Lie, who am i, to stop you?
I wonder what the writer of that article (posted by Neh6--Post #480) meant by the following:

[quoting]

1 John 5:7 was in the old Latin that was used by Bible believers in Europe. Dr. Frederick Nolan (1784-1864) spent 28 years tracing the history of the European Italic or Old Latin version and in 1815 published his findings in An Inquiry into the Integrity of the Greek Vulgate or Received Text of the New Testament, in which the Greek manuscripts are newly classed, the integrity of the Authorised Text vindicated, and the various readings traced to their origin. Nolan believed that the old Latin got its name Italic from the churches in northern Italy that remained separated from Rome and that this text was maintained by separatist Waldensian believers. He concluded that 1 John 5:7 “was adopted in the version which prevailed in the Latin Church, previously to the introduction of the modern Vulgate” (Nolan, Integrity of the Greek Vulgate, pp. xvii, xviii).

1 John 5:7 was in the Latin “vulgate” that had a wide influence throughout the Dark Ages. The Catholic Church used it, but so did many non-Catholic believers. Bruce Metzger observes that the oldest manuscript of the Jerome vulgate, Codex Fuldensis (A.D. 546), does not include the Johannine Comma; but this fact is overwhelmed by other evidence. For one, we have seen that Jerome himself believed 1 John 5:7 was genuine Scripture and testified that heretics had removed it from some manuscripts. Second, 1 John 5:7 is found in the vast majority of extant Latin manuscripts, 49 out of every 50, according to Scrivener. Third, 1 John 5:7 is found in many of the most ancient Latin manuscripts, such as Ulmensis (c. 850) and Toletanus (988). The Johannine Comma is found “in twenty-nine of the fairest, oldest, and most correct of extant Vulgate manuscripts” (Maynard, A History of the Debate over 1 John 5:7-8, p. 343).

[end quoting]
 
Jun 20, 2022
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I wonder what the writer of that article (posted by Neh6) meant by the following:

[quoting]

1 John 5:7 was in the old Latin that was used by Bible believers in Europe. Dr. Frederick Nolan (1784-1864) spent 28 years tracing the history of the European Italic or Old Latin version and in 1815 published his findings in An Inquiry into the Integrity of the Greek Vulgate or Received Text of the New Testament, in which the Greek manuscripts are newly classed, the integrity of the Authorised Text vindicated, and the various readings traced to their origin. Nolan believed that the old Latin got its name Italic from the churches in northern Italy that remained separated from Rome and that this text was maintained by separatist Waldensian believers. He concluded that 1 John 5:7 “was adopted in the version which prevailed in the Latin Church, previously to the introduction of the modern Vulgate” (Nolan, Integrity of the Greek Vulgate, pp. xvii, xviii).

1 John 5:7 was in the Latin “vulgate” that had a wide influence throughout the Dark Ages. The Catholic Church used it, but so did many non-Catholic believers. Bruce Metzger observes that the oldest manuscript of the Jerome vulgate, Codex Fuldensis (A.D. 546), does not include the Johannine Comma; but this fact is overwhelmed by other evidence. For one, we have seen that Jerome himself believed 1 John 5:7 was genuine Scripture and testified that heretics had removed it from some manuscripts. Second, 1 John 5:7 is found in the vast majority of extant Latin manuscripts, 49 out of every 50, according to Scrivener. Third, 1 John 5:7 is found in many of the most ancient Latin manuscripts, such as Ulmensis (c. 850) and Toletanus (988). The Johannine Comma is found “in twenty-nine of the fairest, oldest, and most correct of extant Vulgate manuscripts” (Maynard, A History of the Debate over 1 John 5:7-8, p. 343).

[end quoting]
why should i care?
because, who cares if it's in the Latin, it's nowhere to be found in the Original Greek, and ERASMUS, made that claim about his creation of the Textus Receptus.

the Greek:
7
θεια οτι οι τρειϲ ει

ϲιν οι μαρτυρου

7 For they that testify are three
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,062
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I know church history very well and much of the writings of the church fathers as well. They don't hold a candle to the Bible itself.

Much of what the church fathers wrote was just as controversial as anything else today. The Bible is always the final Word.

And there is no teaching of the trinity contained therein.

I guess you don't know your Bible.
LOL. Coming from what I see you have posted, I will take that asa complement.

The Trinity Concept is biblical and supported by the word of God, and many much more talented than you and I have given wonderful biblical proof. If You attack the Trinity, you will not be here very long :). You can be a "know-it-all" on different sites.

The approaching of the Eternal Godhead must be done reverently and humbly. The Human mind cannot fully understand or comprehend all there is of the the One True God. and how he has revealed himself in three persons.