[SUP]Matthew 28: 18-20 [/SUP]Then Jesus came to them and said,“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
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[SUP]John 14 9-11 [/SUP]Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.
"John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one."
1 john 6-9 "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son."
1 john 6-9 "This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son."
B
Meshullum, ignore Bowman, you will soon learn - as everyone can quite clearly see - Bowman supposes he knows so much revelation but he doesn't have the character to prove he has any revelation at all.
We can pray for him but know that he will continue to be arrogant and condescending to people who do not agree with his knowledge until he really gets acquainted with God and experiences some humility.
Every christian knows that a whole lot of knowledge and revelation does no good without love. God bless.
We can pray for him but know that he will continue to be arrogant and condescending to people who do not agree with his knowledge until he really gets acquainted with God and experiences some humility.
Every christian knows that a whole lot of knowledge and revelation does no good without love. God bless.
M
I agree, but there's one other thing we should look at.
Jesus told the Pharisees to give this message to Herod
Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
If Jesus was sinless which was true, how then can anything perfect become more perfect. It cannot since anything added or taken away would diminish.
The same way that God tells us not to add or take away from the words of his bible, because even one slight change would diminish its own perfection.
Since we can agree Jesus was sinless, and the sacrificial lamb unblemished,
1. how then would he still be imperfect to become perfected
Theres only one deciding factor
And he gives the clue to the answer in that very scripture
Jesus told the Pharisees to give this message to Herod
Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.
If Jesus was sinless which was true, how then can anything perfect become more perfect. It cannot since anything added or taken away would diminish.
The same way that God tells us not to add or take away from the words of his bible, because even one slight change would diminish its own perfection.
Since we can agree Jesus was sinless, and the sacrificial lamb unblemished,
1. how then would he still be imperfect to become perfected
Theres only one deciding factor
And he gives the clue to the answer in that very scripture
Hello MidniteWelder, I love the King James Bible but sometimes the language can be a little archaic and from the 14th century and at the time the King James Bible was being translated into English the word "perfected" meant "to bring to full development" or to finish it and you will be familiar with the words of Jesus on the cross when he cried out, "It is finished." He had perfected the work he had come to accomplish.
Here are those same verses in more up-to-date language.
Luke 13:32
New International Version (©2011)
He replied, "Go tell that fox, 'I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.'
New Living Translation (©2007)
Jesus replied, "Go tell that fox that I will keep on casting out demons and healing people today and tomorrow; and the third day I will accomplish my purpose.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And he said to them, “Go and tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I finish my course.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And He said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I reach My goal.'
The next verse (Luk 13:33) "it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem" is because anyone who claims to be a prophet must be tried by the grand Sanhedrin which always resides at Jerusalem. This is why he had to go to Jerusalem for all our sakes.
May God bless you MW.
Here are those same verses in more up-to-date language.
Luke 13:32
New International Version (©2011)
He replied, "Go tell that fox, 'I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.'
New Living Translation (©2007)
Jesus replied, "Go tell that fox that I will keep on casting out demons and healing people today and tomorrow; and the third day I will accomplish my purpose.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And he said to them, “Go and tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I finish my course.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And He said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I reach My goal.'
The next verse (Luk 13:33) "it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem" is because anyone who claims to be a prophet must be tried by the grand Sanhedrin which always resides at Jerusalem. This is why he had to go to Jerusalem for all our sakes.
May God bless you MW.
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G
Mesh, don't you see God acting in parts of the bible, and, Jesus acting in other parts of the bible, and, the Holy Spirit at work in other parts of the bible ?
And, then Scriptures exist that say that Jesus and God are one, and, that God sent His Holy Spirit to Earth, how can all three 'persons' not be God when the bible distinctly describes all three as One, the workings of one same Spirit doing all things. God is Spirit. Jesus is Spirit, doesn't when Scripture says that Jesus was 'fully God and fully man' tell you something is going on ?? Something of supernatural nature, hence, a trinity of God .
And, then Scriptures exist that say that Jesus and God are one, and, that God sent His Holy Spirit to Earth, how can all three 'persons' not be God when the bible distinctly describes all three as One, the workings of one same Spirit doing all things. God is Spirit. Jesus is Spirit, doesn't when Scripture says that Jesus was 'fully God and fully man' tell you something is going on ?? Something of supernatural nature, hence, a trinity of God .
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I'm afraid Bowman wouldn't care for Hebrew as he would presumably consider it a unitarian language - after all the Jews have never believed the trinity.
And that included Jews like Jesus and the apostles
- after all the Jews have never believed the trinity.And that included Jews like Jesus and the apostles
The naive believes all word, but the sensible takes consideration to his going.
Proverbs 14:16
The wise respect and turn evil, a fool is arrogant and careless.
Proverbs 14:17
Soon (to) anger, acts foolishly; Man of evil is turned against.
Proverbs 14:18
The naive inherit foolishness. The sensible surround skill.
Proverbs 14:19
Will bow; adversity before (moral) beauty, And the adverse at the court of innocents.
Bowman, even if I was Muslim, you treat a human being like something beneath you. Yet you claim to know the true insights of the Spirit of Holiness.
I don't desire the type of intellectual respect of people that comes from fighting a view endlessly for no reason other than argument's sake, and I don't feel sorry for myself, sir.
I feel sorry for you.
As I mentioned quite a few posts back, there is not much point in speaking with someone who only wishes for an argument rather than some form of enlightenment or at least for sharing with civility. And since I find I've had to defend puffed-up accusations born out of assumption, and even when I have done so, it reverts back around in a circle, I'm going to assume that you have complete inability to simply just disagree respectfully, which is all I actually desire at this point.
Whatever your anger is born from, I hope it leaves you in peace at some point.
I feel sorry for you.
As I mentioned quite a few posts back, there is not much point in speaking with someone who only wishes for an argument rather than some form of enlightenment or at least for sharing with civility. And since I find I've had to defend puffed-up accusations born out of assumption, and even when I have done so, it reverts back around in a circle, I'm going to assume that you have complete inability to simply just disagree respectfully, which is all I actually desire at this point.
Whatever your anger is born from, I hope it leaves you in peace at some point.
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I, and I can see, others, take issue with the way in which you actually 'propose' your responses. There is a moral, civil, logical flaw in the very manner which you constrain your questions, and others' viewpoints, with your own high and mightiness, yet when another person simply does what you ask and propitiates their own translation, without slanderous language, they are automatically considered heretics and people upon whom you can lay slander. You then proceed to goad them 'no, defend it again, that's not the right response'. I am wary of people like you.
It is authoritarian, conform-or-be-slandered teaching. Yet you use a 'sect' of Christianity's interpretative scope to seemingly propose that what you suggest is in fact 'the only' way in which these scriptures can be translated. And your argument stands on a 'view' (a view not shared by many), that these scriptures can ONLY be used to promote trinitarianism. And anything else (I assume) is worthy of hellfire.
well to be frank, I do not care, one horse's hair, for my own translations, whether you consider these passages 'trinitarian-rendered'. It is likely that is what someone has 'taught' you that they are.
But in fact, they are words from the bible, to be interpreted as the reader does so, according to how God speaks to the person in question.
You are not my authority on God, or on how I should interpret what He has allowed to be said, and nor will I allow you to be that.
It is authoritarian, conform-or-be-slandered teaching. Yet you use a 'sect' of Christianity's interpretative scope to seemingly propose that what you suggest is in fact 'the only' way in which these scriptures can be translated. And your argument stands on a 'view' (a view not shared by many), that these scriptures can ONLY be used to promote trinitarianism. And anything else (I assume) is worthy of hellfire.
well to be frank, I do not care, one horse's hair, for my own translations, whether you consider these passages 'trinitarian-rendered'. It is likely that is what someone has 'taught' you that they are.
But in fact, they are words from the bible, to be interpreted as the reader does so, according to how God speaks to the person in question.
You are not my authority on God, or on how I should interpret what He has allowed to be said, and nor will I allow you to be that.
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Keep running...
Here...let's help you get started...
Orthodox Christianity has always been Trinitarian.
That is why the lion's share of the translations were rendered by Trinitarians.
You, yourself, ignorantly use these very same translations for your minority non-Trinitarian world-view...and, as such, the heavy burden now rests upon your shoulders to demonstrate how these very same Trinitarian rendered scriptures somehow support your non-Trinitarian stance.
Please provide your exegesis as to why you are correct and the majority is wrong.
Simple.
Here...let's help you get started...
Orthodox Christianity has always been Trinitarian.
That is why the lion's share of the translations were rendered by Trinitarians.
You, yourself, ignorantly use these very same translations for your minority non-Trinitarian world-view...and, as such, the heavy burden now rests upon your shoulders to demonstrate how these very same Trinitarian rendered scriptures somehow support your non-Trinitarian stance.
Please provide your exegesis as to why you are correct and the majority is wrong.
Simple.