The Trinity

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mark54

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Jan 11, 2013
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Meshullam said:
. It also suggests that Jesus' profession of their singularity was a profession of unity in perspective (or 'spirit'), like Paul and Appollo, rather than a unity of 'physical form' for want of a better term (at least not of that which Goes beyond being created partly from his mother and partly from his father).

Yet we are not physically one, but perhaps one in 'essence' (the term the original trinitarian, Tertullian, used) or of 'one mind'.

.
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I have given them the glory that you gave me that they(the believers) may be one AS we are one
John17:22

How can two believers be as one?
Could you be me or I you? No! we remain two individual people, but we can be as one in the Spirit, that is the only way you and I could be as one

Then make my joy complete, being likeminded, having the same love, being one in Spirit and of one mind
Phil2:2
And Jesus prayed:

That they may be one AS we are one
 
PS

PS

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#2,183
Jan 11, 2013
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#2,183
Meshullam said:
It's the same in English.

If I say 'I love my Mum and Dad'.

It isn't some new parent called a MumandDad, it means I love both my mum, and my dad ...

If I say that I am waiting for the day of my great toast and bread .. both the toast and bread are great, but they still aren't the same.


The 'glorious display of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

the glorious display is belonging to both the great God, and the saviour.

Both the saviour and the God can be 'great'.

But the God and The Saviour are personified nouns and names, and therefore not 'common nouns'. Therefore this rule doesn't need to apply. Though I suppose it can if you wish it to.
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"I love God my Saviour Jesus Christ"

God is who he is, Saviour is what he has done, Jesus is his name, Messiah is his title. (One deity)
 
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Meshullam

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Mar 8, 2013
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This argument is melting my head. And this is exactly why I didn't want it go on earlier. Cause then it goes down the route of either of us feeling very silly, and getting overly angry.

I apologize to you, Bowman.

I don't particularly think that the trinity (or lack thereof, whichever view one takes) inherently matters that much if neither of us have any respect and compassion for each other.
 
M

mark54

Banned
#2,186
Jan 11, 2013
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#2,186
Meshullam said:
This argument is melting my head. And this is exactly why I didn't want it go on earlier. Cause then it goes down the route of either of us feeling very silly, and getting overly angry.

I apologize to you, Bowman.

I don't particularly think that the trinity (or lack thereof, whichever view one takes) inherently matters that much if neither of us have any respect and compassion for each other.
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According to the bible, in order to be saved, you must believe Jesus is the Son of God in respect of who he must be believed to be, that's it.
But, if a person did not believe Christ was born of the virgin Mary, and the only truly begotten son of God, and there is no way to the Father but by the Son, they obviously do not accept what scripture plainlty states, and for me scripture is the bottom line, as I imagine the Koran must be for a Muslim
 
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Bowman

Bowman

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#2,187
Nov 19, 2012
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#2,187
You're a JW...

Meshullam said:
It's the same in English.

If I say 'I love my Mum and Dad'.

It isn't some new parent called a MumandDad, it means I love both my mum, and my dad ...

If I say that I am waiting for the day of my great toast and bread .. both the toast and bread are great, but they still aren't the same.


The 'glorious display of our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

the glorious display is belonging to both the great God, and the saviour.

Both the saviour and the God can be 'great'.

But the God and The Saviour are personified nouns and names, and therefore not 'common nouns'. Therefore this rule doesn't need to apply. Though I suppose it can if you wish it to.
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No.

TSKS is a construct of the Greek language...NOT English.

Study up...
 
Bowman

Bowman

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#2,188
Nov 19, 2012
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#2,188
Meshullam said:
This argument is melting my head. And this is exactly why I didn't want it go on earlier. Cause then it goes down the route of either of us feeling very silly, and getting overly angry.

I apologize to you, Bowman.

I don't particularly think that the trinity (or lack thereof, whichever view one takes) inherently matters that much if neither of us have any respect and compassion for each other.
Click to expand...

No problem...take some time to study what I have presented, and see for yourself...
 
Bowman

Bowman

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#2,189
Nov 19, 2012
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#2,189
Meshullam said:
Therefore I take any controversial verses (of which trinitarian doctrine are formed) with a pinch of insight, taking into consideration the rest of Jesus and God's interactions.
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No verse thwarts the Trinity.

 
Bowman

Bowman

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#2,190
Nov 19, 2012
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Ignore check...

mark54 said:
According to the bible, in order to be saved, you must believe Jesus is the Son of God in respect of who he must be believed to be, that's it.
But, if a person did not believe Christ was born of the virgin Mary, and the only truly begotten son of God, and there is no way to the Father but by the Son, they obviously do not accept what scripture plainlty states, and for me scripture is the bottom line, as I imagine the Koran must be for a Muslim
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Scripture?

 
Bowman

Bowman

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#2,192
Nov 19, 2012
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Re: Ignore check...

PS said:
Mark is an Arian.

"The Arian concept of Christ is that the Son of God did not always exist"
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One would have to be completely ignorant of scripture to come to that conclusion.
 
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Earlmayknowornot

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#2,193
Feb 17, 2013
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Are yall (southern) still fussing bout the trinity. Yikes. Look 3 in 1 is found everywhere. The house you live in was built wth 3 things. The computer you are typing on was built with 3 things. The car that you drive was built with 3 things. Wisdom, Knowledge, and Prudence ( prudence is the act of wisdom and knowledge). Those 3 combined is God. Post Post Post
 
PS

PS

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#2,194
Jan 11, 2013
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#2,194
Earlmayknowornot said:
Are yall (southern) still fussing bout the trinity. Yikes. Look 3 in 1 is found everywhere. The house you live in was built wth 3 things. The computer you are typing on was built with 3 things. The car that you drive was built with 3 things. Wisdom, Knowledge, and Prudence ( prudence is the act of wisdom and knowledge). Those 3 combined is God. Post Post Post
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That' one way of looking at it but another way is the mum (or dad) who comes home from teaching in school for example, gets the tea and then goes to sing in the choir. She is a mother, a teacher and a singer, but she is one person, and it would be absolutely stupid to divide her up. She is doing three jobs but she is one person and if people don't think God is capable then they have a small god and I don't think they should thrust their views onto others. We worship One God in Spirit and in Truth and if we can be three in one then so can God. As far as I can tell people who speak of the three persons of the trinity are going out on a limb because they cannot grasp the greatness of God who fulfils three rolls.

Anyway I have said my piece and I shan't say any more.
 
Bowman

Bowman

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PS said:
That' one way of looking at it but another way is the mum (or dad) who comes home from teaching in school for example, gets the tea and then goes to sing in the choir. She is a mother, a teacher and a singer, but she is one person, and it would be absolutely stupid to divide her up. She is doing three jobs but she is one person and if people don't think God is capable then they have a small god and I don't think they should thrust their views onto others. We worship One God in Spirit and in Truth and if we can be three in one then so can God. As far as I can tell people who speak of the three persons of the trinity are going out on a limb because they cannot grasp the greatness of God who fulfils three rolls.

Anyway I have said my piece and I shan't say any more.
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Unfortunately, that is not what the Trinity is.

In your human example, the mother is still the teacher is still the singer.

In the Trinity, the Father is NOT the Son is NOT the Spirit.

See the difference?
 
PS

PS

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Jan 11, 2013
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Bowman said:
Unfortunately, that is not what the Trinity is.

In your human example, the mother is still the teacher is still the singer.

In the Trinity, the Father is NOT the Son is NOT the Spirit.

See the difference?
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I see the difference and for all the world I cannot understand why we cannot find comfort in God like the Old Testament Psalmist, and neither do I see why God cannot be the Word which gives us One God and this is why I am not prepared to discuss it with you as I see you are unmovable and after many years on forums I know it is pointless trying.
 
Bowman

Bowman

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Nov 19, 2012
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PS said:
I see the difference and for all the world I cannot understand why we cannot find comfort in God like the Old Testament Psalmist, and neither do I see why God cannot be the Word which gives us One God and this is why I am not prepared to discuss it with you as I see you are unmovable and after many years on forums I know it is pointless trying.
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There would not be much to discuss if we all agreed with one another.

As such, your knowledge of the Creator, as He has revealed Himself in scripture, is incomplete and incorrect.

No human analogy can compare....the only comparison is scripture itself - hence the term Trinity was coined as an epithet to describe the God of the Holy Bible as He has chosen to reveal Himself in the sum total of ALL scripture.
 
J

justamazed

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#2,198
Jan 24, 2013
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Bowman said:
There would not be much to discuss if we all agreed with one another.

As such, your knowledge of the Creator, as He has revealed Himself in scripture, is incomplete and incorrect.

No human analogy can compare....the only comparison is scripture itself - hence the term Trinity was coined as an epithet to describe the God of the Holy Bible as He has chosen to reveal Himself in the sum total of ALL scripture.
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So if I do not believe in a trinity, am I lacking in understanding somehow?

The proplem I see is people's understanding of "all of scripture". What does that mean? Christ said that ALL who came before Him were thieves and robbers. Does that not include people like Moses?
 
C

crosspreacher

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#2,199
#2,199
justamazed said:
So if I do not believe in a trinity, am I lacking in understanding somehow?

The proplem I see is people's understanding of "all of scripture". What does that mean? Christ said that ALL who came before Him were thieves and robbers. Does that not include people like Moses?
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Surely not. Jesus was like Moses.
 
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