The Truth shall set you free

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Bingo

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2019
4,011
2,916
113
#21
You have PROOF that you're received from the Holy Ghost?

Jesus' promises (Numbers 23:19) are our PROOF (Jeremiah 1:12)!

Jesus promised "POWER" (Acts 1:8) after Holy Spirit baptism (Acts 1:5) in order to "join to His Spirit" (I Corinthians 6:17) after His "POWER comes upon us" (Acts 1:8) Who "QUICKENS" us (I Corinthians 15:45) "back to life" (Ephesians 2:1) from our "DEAD spirits" (Romans 5:12-14; I Corinthians 15:21-22) so we can receive "HELP" from the "HOLY SPIRIT" (John 14:26; 16:7).

Jesus promised "SPIRITUAL GIFTS" are received (I Corinthians 12:7-10) after Holy Spirit baptism (I Corinthians 12:13)

Jesus promised "SIGNS FOLLOWING" (Mark 16:17-18) after Holy Spirit baptism (Mark 16:16).

THIS IS OUR PROOF THAT WE HAVE "THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST DWELLING IN US" (ROMANS 8:9)!
https://christianchat.com/threads/subtle-warnings.198616/post-4546713
 
Apr 18, 2021
97
5
8
#22
We have so many men who have interpreted scripture and started different church denominations based on their interpretation that it is difficult to discipline our minds enough to close these interpretations all out and rely strictly on all scripture. We are so blessed to have programs that help us such as e-sword.

Is it the truth that the law is cancelled? Can we have grace if we don't repent of a sin? Does being under grace not law mean that we are not to listen to the law? Is the law a blessing or a curse to us? Doe repentance mean that we give our will to the Lord knowing the Lord is sinless and His will is for us to be cleansed of all sin? By bondage does the Lord mean the commands like fleshly circumcision or does the Lord mean bondage to sin? Are we to work for the Lord as a result of our faith in Him? How does knowing works don't save us fit into that?

The answer to all these ideas that divide us is in scripture, but it takes dedication to finding the truth and lots of work to find it.
All these questions are answered after one is "chosen and ordained" by Jesus (John 15:16) when "He baptizes us with the Holy Ghost" (John 1:33; Acts 1:5) Who gives us "POWER" (Acts 1:8) "to become the sons of God" (John 1:12). He then begins "giving commandments [aka the law] through the Holy Ghost to those He's chosen" (Acts 1:2) as "He guides us into all truth" (John 16:13). Then you'll have all your answers (Jeremiah 31:34).
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,248
386
83
#23
I agree, the girt is eternal life. Even in this world there is the life of the spirit and the carnal life. The law as it defines sin is the key to the real eternal life, for in reality it is the life of the spirit that is the true life and that life can be eternal except that sin came in to cancel it.

Paul explains this, and his explanations are used by the church to turn our backs on the sin that kills this eternal life. They use that we are dead to sin to tell us to ignore that sin kills. They use that sin is a curse that kills to say we should not acknowledge that sin exists. They use that it is faith that saves to say we can ignore that sin kills, not realizing faith in God is to not accept sin in our life. They use that we are human and it is impossible for us to be sin free to say we must not repent of sin so without repentance we choose sin. These truths, with their wrong interpretations, are paraded by Christians as they ignore that Paul tells us to obey the Lord and repent of sin.

Because a human is not perfect and there is sin within him, any idea given about the necessity of the repentance that is trying for obedience is met with the taunt "are you perfect". Christ told us to be perfect, even though Christ knew we couldn't reach that goal. Christians tell us we should not follow Christ's command to try for perfection. I've read a post saying Christ didn't mean it when Christ told us to be perfect. They say that if we can't reach perfection, why not just live in sin, we can't stop it anyway.
I think the difference is in repentance some sinners acknowledge thier sins and it brings sorrow because they acknowledge they have sinned and the word of God condemns them so they repent from the heart and it moves then to change thier actions that’s how faith works

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus taught such wonderful things he didn’t just say “ repent you sinners or die “ he said that not repenting would. Ring death but he taught Christians about repentance in his word things like this about repentance a new way to look at repentance

“What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he taught it as a child returning home to his father the love involved in repentance

“And he said, A certain man had two sons: And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living....

( he wastes his living and then comes to repentance in his heart )

And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:11-12, 17-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus tells sinners of redemption , freedom , he tells us of a Heavenly Father who loves us and is willing to come running as we turn back to him .

repentance is really important , but understanding repentance and faith is essential

“And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:37-38, 47-48, 50‬ ‭

this woman hadn’t become sinless , she was acknowledging her sins before the lord and repenting from her heart and was saved by her faith not ever keeping or obeying any law but because she saw and came to Christ in repentance

God loves us and wants all
Of us to come to repentance and be saved . In order for us to know and believe that we need to accept the gospel . To know the truth about repentance we have to hear his call into the kingdom and know the love he has for us
 
Apr 18, 2021
97
5
8
#24
I think the difference is in repentance some sinners acknowledge thier sins and it brings sorrow because they acknowledge they have sinned and the word of God condemns them so they repent from the heart and it moves then to change thier actions that’s how faith works

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus taught such wonderful things he didn’t just say “ repent you sinners or die “ he said that not repenting would. Ring death but he taught Christians about repentance in his word things like this about repentance a new way to look at repentance

“What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he taught it as a child returning home to his father the love involved in repentance

“And he said, A certain man had two sons: And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living....

( he wastes his living and then comes to repentance in his heart )

And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:11-12, 17-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus tells sinners of redemption , freedom , he tells us of a Heavenly Father who loves us and is willing to come running as we turn back to him .

repentance is really important , but understanding repentance and faith is essential

“And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:37-38, 47-48, 50‬ ‭

this woman hadn’t become sinless , she was acknowledging her sins before the lord and repenting from her heart and was saved by her faith not ever keeping or obeying any law but because she saw and came to Christ in repentance

God loves us and wants all
Of us to come to repentance and be saved . In order for us to know and believe that we need to accept the gospel . To know the truth about repentance we have to hear his call into the kingdom and know the love he has for us
NONE OF WHAT YOU SAID MATTERS UNTIL YOU ARE NO LONGER A "DEAD SPIRIT" (RM 5:12-14; I COR 15:21-22) THAT ONLY HAPPENS WHEN HIS "POWER COMES UPON US" (ACTS 1:8) AFTER HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM (ACTS 1:5) HIS POWER WHO "QUICKENS US BACK TO LIFE" (EPHESIANS 2:1) FROM OUR "DEAD SPIRITS."

OTHERWISE YOU REMAIN DEAD!
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
1,248
386
83
#25
NONE OF WHAT YOU SAID MATTERS UNTIL YOU ARE NO LONGER A "DEAD SPIRIT" (RM 5:12-14; I COR 15:21-22) THAT ONLY HAPPENS WHEN HIS "POWER COMES UPON US" (ACTS 1:8) AFTER HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM (ACTS 1:5) HIS POWER WHO "QUICKENS US BACK TO LIFE" (EPHESIANS 2:1) FROM OUR "DEAD SPIRITS."

OTHERWISE YOU REMAIN DEAD!
it seems like you are spinning in circles really fast but you’ve missed the actual scripture it’s point blank without me saying a word

the op itself is flawed in that it overlooks what’s there plainly

“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

rather than simply argue for arguing sake just acknowledge what’s there .
If you are able to do that then the warnings elsewhere make sense and you won’t have to argue those also like this one regarding the children of disobedience

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1, 3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in almost every letter to the church paul talks about this subject . Everyone in all creation is lost to sin and death it’s already a done deal it’s why we live 100 years if we’re lucky and then die. All of creation is under Gods wrath already

We are being redeemed from the fallen creation the wrath of God is now and also to come

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:18-19, 21, 24, 29-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the world is in that state and all are under his wrath and headed for the end destruction of creation , tha the why Paul is talking about coming out of that spirit of disobedience that Gods wrath is going to destroy and is already on all because of sin and our partaking of it we have to stop serving the decils
Will in the world and turn to Gods will expressed in Christ through the gospel

we can serve the spirit of disobedience and remain dead , or can accept the spirit of life and live pauls doctrine all explains the same things like that section you are not hearing in the op


the gospel is about bringing those already dead sinners because of the law , back to life in righteousness through the gospel And making them a promise that even though thier body will Die for sin they will live forever with him
 
Apr 18, 2021
97
5
8
#26
it seems like you are spinning in circles really fast but you’ve missed the actual scripture it’s point blank without me saying a word

the op itself is flawed in that it overlooks what’s there plainly

“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

rather than simply argue for arguing sake just acknowledge what’s there .
If you are able to do that then the warnings elsewhere make sense and you won’t have to argue those also like this one regarding the children of disobedience

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1, 3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in almost every letter to the church paul talks about this subject . Everyone in all creation is lost to sin and death it’s already a done deal it’s why we live 100 years if we’re lucky and then die. All of creation is under Gods wrath already

We are being redeemed from the fallen creation the wrath of God is now and also to come

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:18-19, 21, 24, 29-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the world is in that state and all are under his wrath and headed for the end destruction of creation , tha the why Paul is talking about coming out of that spirit of disobedience that Gods wrath is going to destroy and is already on all because of sin and our partaking of it we have to stop serving the decils
Will in the world and turn to Gods will expressed in Christ through the gospel

we can serve the spirit of disobedience and remain dead , or can accept the spirit of life and live pauls doctrine all explains the same things like that section you are not hearing in the op


the gospel is about bringing those already dead sinners because of the law , back to life in righteousness through the gospel And making them a promise that even though thier body will Die for sin they will live forever with him

YOU THINK BECAUSE YOU READ SOMETHING IN A BOOK IT APPLIES TO YOU WHEN JESUS PROMISED SOMETHING HAPPENS

"...AFTER YOU BELIEVED, YE WERE SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE" (EPHESIANS 1:13)

BUT (((THE PROMISE))) (ACTS 1:4) IS HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM (ACTS 1:5)

AFTER WHICH JESUS PROMISED "POWER" (ACTS 1:8) AFTER HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM (ACTS 1:5)
"SPIRITUAL GIFTS" (I COR 12:7-10) AFTER HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM (I COR 12:13)
"SIGNS FOLLOWING" (MARK 16:17-18) AFTER HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM (MARK 16:16)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BUT YOU HAVE NONE OF JESUS' PROMISES<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

YET (((THINK)))

"YOU HAVE BEEN SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE" (EPHESIANS 1:13)???

WHAT?


JESUS LIED (NUMBERS 23:19) BUT (((YOU))) ARE TELLING THE TRUTH AND ARE A CHRISTIAN (((ANYWAY???)))
 
Apr 21, 2021
64
28
18
#27
Fortunately the bible is not a history book detailing a consecutive narrative. If it were we would be reading volumes of books, and more confused than we are with the one small manual which we have now. That small manual has confounded the entire world.

The bible is not a history book, rather it is a spiritual book, going straight to the heart of the matter. God does things perfectly. So the mundane details of carnal things do not come into play. God made man head of the woman and Adam should have stopped Eve from breaking God's law instead of joining her to break God's law.
I respectfully disagree with you here pablocito. It's a history book with a spiritual message.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,888
1,510
113
#28
You want truth?

Jesus commended Peter for have received "...revelation from My Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 16:17)

Who said in Matthew 7:21 "...no one will enter into the Kingdom of heaven" unless he receives revelation from My Father which is in heaven in order to "...do the will of My Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).

Therefore if one isn't Holy Spirit baptized to be "joined to His Spirit" (I Corinthians 6:17; II Corinthians 5:18-20) to receive "revelation from My Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 16:17) the commandment Jesus gives us through the Holy Ghost" (Acts 1:2) in order "...to do the will of My Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21) you will "in no wise enter into the Kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 7:21).

"Reconciliation" (II Corinthians 5:18-10).
The Holy Sprit helps us understand the word, we need to have the word enter our minds for the Holy Spirit to help us.

As an example, some read Galatians 2:19 "For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God" without also reading Romans 6:17 "But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed," The Holy Spirit cannot help those who do not put scripture into their minds. Scripture is truth.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,888
1,510
113
#29
I respectfully disagree with you here pablocito. It's a history book with a spiritual message.
I think it is a mistake to read that bible as only history and also to read it as only spiritual. We are to see both in scripture. There are even hidden meanings in scripture for it is difficult for our earthly minds to comprehend all the spiritual meanings.
 
Apr 22, 2021
50
13
8
#30
I think it is a mistake to read that bible as only history and also to read it as only spiritual. We are to see both in scripture. There are even hidden meanings in scripture for it is difficult for our earthly minds to comprehend all the spiritual meanings.
If the bible was really a history book, then googling Solomon on the internet would not bring up some belief that Solomon was some mythological figure.

If the bible was an historical book, then there would be no controversy by the world's historians as to whether Jesus is some made-up person.

Jesus and Solomon both dominated their era according to bible accounts.

No! Absolutely not! - the bible is not a historical book because secular history cannot verify anything in the bible, the closest they come, is to speculate that Alexander the great, seems to fit the description of a person that the bible talks about.

Even well known bible historians of the first century (like Josephus) are very skimpy on their knowledge of any documentation of the life of Jesus except for what is found in the bible.

It is curious to note that right after John wrote the book of Revelation in the first century, we have well documented history in detail of the lives of the 2nd Century Church Fathers, their biographies and their beliefs but 20 to 50 years earlier there is absolutely nothing, not even the original bible manuscripts which today has never been found. That is the reason why scholarly theologians and historians like Bart Ehrman have turned their backs on the truth of the bible because they are unable to prove the reality of it.

Conclusion: the bible is a spiritual book and must be treated as such.
 
Apr 22, 2021
50
13
8
#31
I respectfully disagree with you here pablocito. It's a history book with a spiritual message.
We know that God wrote the bible. Of course His prophets and Apostles wrote the actual words. But all came from the mind of God to teach us about the truth, the message that will set us free.

If you want to call it a history of God's selected dealings with his people Israel, primarily for the purpose of teaching us here in the last days, the purpose and will of God for us, then I would say OK. Of course God is infinite in all his ways, ways which we are not privy to, but concerning us, the bible is a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. It is a text book of God, without which we could not know God, both Old and New Testaments.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,480
9,584
113
#32
So what exactly is this great tribulation that is going to befall mankind. That is a secret, privy only to true children of God.
Do you think that if someone doesn't believe as you do regarding the great tribulation, they are not of the true children of God?
 
Apr 22, 2021
50
13
8
#33
it seems like you are spinning in circles really fast but you’ve missed the actual scripture it’s point blank without me saying a word

the op itself is flawed in that it overlooks what’s there plainly

“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

rather than simply argue for arguing sake just acknowledge what’s there .
If you are able to do that then the warnings elsewhere make sense and you won’t have to argue those also like this one regarding the children of disobedience

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1, 3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in almost every letter to the church paul talks about this subject . Everyone in all creation is lost to sin and death it’s already a done deal it’s why we live 100 years if we’re lucky and then die. All of creation is under Gods wrath already

We are being redeemed from the fallen creation the wrath of God is now and also to come

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:18-19, 21, 24, 29-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the world is in that state and all are under his wrath and headed for the end destruction of creation , tha the why Paul is talking about coming out of that spirit of disobedience that Gods wrath is going to destroy and is already on all because of sin and our partaking of it we have to stop serving the decils
Will in the world and turn to Gods will expressed in Christ through the gospel

we can serve the spirit of disobedience and remain dead , or can accept the spirit of life and live pauls doctrine all explains the same things like that section you are not hearing in the op


the gospel is about bringing those already dead sinners because of the law , back to life in righteousness through the gospel And making them a promise that even though thier body will Die for sin they will live forever with him
Everything matters. God understands the dilemma of human beings. So God went far out of his way to do everything that was necessary to rescue his lost sheep. He will leave 99 penned up to go and seek after that last one that has lost his way back to the fold.

We do not understand everything as we would like, but we do have the capacity to understand everything that God thinks is necessary for our salvation. And God's thinking is perfect because He is God and understands all. Even when we blame ourselves irresponsibly, God who sees our heart is able to set us straight through his grace.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#34
No! Absolutely not! - the bible is not a historical book because secular history cannot verify anything in the bible
You haven't done much reading in the field of Middle Eastern archeology, have you?

Conclusion: the bible is a spiritual book and must be treated as such.
Um, no. The Bible is spiritual, but it is also historical. If it is not historical, it is not spiritual either, for it is not true.
 
Apr 22, 2021
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#35
You haven't done much reading in the field of Middle Eastern archeology, have you?


Um, no. The Bible is spiritual, but it is also historical. If it is not historical, it is not spiritual either, for it is not true.

This is God's purpose for the scripture:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The purposes outlined above is solely for the purpose of instructing believers how to gain eternal life. Many many characters turn up in the bible without any historical context whatsoever.
Job, Melchizedek, Balaam, Ester, and many of the parables both in the old testament and New testament are there to teach us the deep spiritual truths.

If you read the bible as a history book, you will surely miss the spiritual truths to your demise.

Romans 16 vs 26 states:
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

This last verse explicitly states that the bible is for the obedience of faith. History is random, but God's word was written specifically for one purpose and one purpose only.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,480
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#36
This is God's purpose for the scripture:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The purposes outlined above is solely for the purpose of instructing believers how to gain eternal life. Many many characters turn up in the bible without any historical context whatsoever.
Job, Melchizedek, Balaam, Ester, and many of the parables both in the old testament and New testament are there to teach us the deep spiritual truths.

If you read the bible as a history book, you will surely miss the spiritual truths to your demise.

Romans 16 vs 26 states:
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

This last verse explicitly states that the bible is for the obedience of faith. History is random, but God's word was written specifically for one purpose and one purpose only.
You made the statement, "the bible is not a historical book because secular history cannot verify anything in the bible".

That's an all-or-nothing statement. You are in error because secular history does in fact verify many things from the Bible. What it does not do is verify everything... yet.

By the way, your statement is also a non sequitur. That secular history cannot verify something does not make it ahistorical. For centuries, skeptics thought that the biblical accounts of the Hittites were fictional. Do a little reading on that.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,480
9,584
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#37
This is God's purpose for the scripture:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The purposes outlined above is solely for the purpose of instructing believers how to gain eternal life.
Your conclusion here is fallacious. That God calls Scripture profitable in these areas doesn't mean that it has no value in other areas.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
4,888
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#38
All these questions are answered after one is "chosen and ordained" by Jesus (John 15:16) when "He baptizes us with the Holy Ghost" (John 1:33; Acts 1:5) Who gives us "POWER" (Acts 1:8) "to become the sons of God" (John 1:12). He then begins "giving commandments [aka the law] through the Holy Ghost to those He's chosen" (Acts 1:2) as "He guides us into all truth" (John 16:13). Then you'll have all your answers (Jeremiah 31:34).
I agree, but those that say they have the Holy Spirit to guide them do not agree, and there is only one truth to every question. what do you think is the answer to this?

Scripture is clear that no man can add to the word, yet through the years the pope and the councils have added to the word saying they have been given the right to do so through the Holy Spirit.
 
Sep 2, 2020
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#39
Everything matters. God understands the dilemma of human beings. So God went far out of his way to do everything that was necessary to rescue his lost sheep. He will leave 99 penned up to go and seek after that last one that has lost his way back to the fold.

We do not understand everything as we would like, but we do have the capacity to understand everything that God thinks is necessary for our salvation. And God's thinking is perfect because He is God and understands all. Even when we blame ourselves irresponsibly, God who sees our heart is able to set us straight through his grace.
His word in the gospel sets our heart straight actually if we don’t reject it

“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The issue is in our heart and mind

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


We need to accept and believe the gospel to correct our heart Sin isn’t just something we do in an act , it’s a law in fallen human soul a spiritual law within

“I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭

This battle between mankind and sin began long ago with the first born man

“And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

man has to overcome sin to be saved it’s the same today it’s why we have to accept and believe the gospel it is what gives us repentance and sets us free from satans trap in this world when we acknowledge the truth

“In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


All the world is serving sin , we can be redeemed from that law of sin in our mind and heart the word of God heals us through belief our place is that we have to come out of Babylon now into the kingdom , out of the worlds system and into Gods we have to escape from the snare of the devil and stop serving his will in the world and start believing and accepting and living the gospel

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God can change is if we believe the gospel from those hearts contrary to him to those who don’t find it a grievance to walk on his ways because their heart is healed and corrected and thier belief is able to lead them down the narrow path being redeemed through belief of Hods truth in the world the light
 
Jul 18, 2017
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#40
The bible is not a history book, rather it is a spiritual book, going straight to the heart of the matter.
The Bible is BOTH a history book and a spiritual book. The history of Israel (in some detail) is recorded in the Bible, as well as the history of mankind (in broad strokes). But if we are to maintain the truth that will set us free, we need to recognize this.

Yes, we are definitely living is days similar to those before the Flood (as Christ foretold). And yes the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation will be coming up in the near future, along with the reign of the Antichrist. The Great Reset of the World Economic Forum is definitely paving the way for this.

At the same time, Christians must continue to stand and fight for the truth, as well the the tyrannical attempts of all governments to shut down churches and Christians.