The two witnesses

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Hello Lifted,

Well that is what I have been saying, there is no scripture to back up what you are proclaiming. Anything that you do provide will most likely be gained from the spiritualizing of scripture. There is just no scripture that would identify the two witnesses as being symbolic representing the word of God. There is however a great deal of detailed information demonstrating that the two witnesses are exactly who scripture says they are, two living beings who will prophecy for 1,260 days. My advice to you is to take what is written of them at face value, that is, in the literal sense..

What your saying is spiritualize some things that go against human logic,like a beast rising out of the sea,but leave other's as is, because it sounds worldly enough?

Jesus talked in parables because he wanted his followers to be spiritual people.He wanted them to search for these hidden truths and come out from the ways of the world.Away from worldly thinking.

There is a great detail of information of the two witnesses.But with worldly thinking(face value) you only see what they do.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Moses and Elijah were for the ones of the old covenant, to witnessed what they were doing. Like those that under the laws sit in Moses' seat, which means that they will judge accordingly to the laws. But under Elijah, they are judge by their faith. Abraham and the rest was judged as being righteous not because of the works of the laws, but by faith. They will never had became righteous through the laws because they were weak and not able to keep from violating the laws. And so now our two witnesses are the O.T. and the N.T. the ones live by the O.T. will perish under them.

Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

And so I would like to be judge apart from the laws because I know that I could not uphold them all, and if no one cannot uphold just one, then they are considered as being worthless. Look what happened to Adam and Eve, they just violated one, and it was just for eating a single fruit, that they were considered as being worthless, that they could not be in the presence of God.

There are quite a few cases of two witnesses in the bible.
Adam and Eve,
Abraham and Sara,
Judah and Benjamin,
Mose's and Joshua.
There's even more then what I given as an example.They were all a witness to something.

When the Old Covenant was being fulfilled,there is two pairs of two witnesses.
Joshua and Caleb,and the two spies.both these pairs are part of the remnant.
All these things tie together in Revelation.From the 12 stones,to Rahab being saved by the scarlet rope(blood of Jesus)(revelation 18:4-5)

There's a reason why the Bible mentions the two spies hiding under stalks of flax on the roof(straw).
Straw was used to strengthen bricks used for building.
The two spies are two witnesses to spy on Jericho.The spies hiding under the flax, represents the two witnesses strengthening the walls(the people) in Revelation.That's when the two witnesses prophesy 1,260.The bible is prophecy.

The two spies/witnesses are of the remnant of Israel.
And the remnant carries the ark of the testimony.

All this happen during the fulfilling of the Old Covenant.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there anything of which one can say,
“Look! This is something new”?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Here's another couple ways to connect the 144,000 along with the two witnesses.

When Jesus told the Apostles to throw their net into the water and they caught 153 fish.
1+5+3=9


144+9=153




One more.


In Luke 10 Jesus sends out 72 messengers .
I dont have a computer to show you the scripture,sorry.


72x2=144
The 144,000 will pair up and prophesy.
144 divided by 2 is 72




Here's another
144 divided by 12(Apostles) =12


THE 144,000 will be like Apostles.

 

[SilverFanng]

Just wanted to post this here since it's trending right now.

God has shown lead me in my studies of His plan and I can claim that the two witnesses are the 144,000 sealed Israelites. This is because there were two kingdoms of Israel. Most of the Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms forgot their identity as Israelites after generations of exile, but God never lost sight of them. They will be sealed after the sixth seal is opened. When they are they will be at war with the Antichrist and his entire government. After 3.5 years they will all have been killed. 3.5 days later God will raise them from the dead first. Then he will raise all who have ever been truly faithful to Him before Christ and those who accepted Christ after His resurrection. And all of them will ascend into heaven as well as those who are still alive. Note: those still left alive will be few in number because most will have been killed in the war by this point.

The purpose of the two witnesses is twofold. First they are to bear witness for God to man announcing the very final warning mankind will receive. All who reject Him and thus reject being fixed are doomed to be resurrected into eternal damnation by banishment from God's presence forever.

Second they are to bear witness to the end so that mankind may forever remember what happened in that time and that they may testify on judgement day, or the day of final trial.

 

[SilverFanng]

P.S.

Sorry if someone already stated this. I read the first page and got lazy deciding not to read the other 3.

 

[tanakh]

It is the testimony that are the two witnesses OT/NT.
The Remnant carries it,Just like they did before,and as before Jesus will lead the way.

Jesus will enter into the 144,000(temple) and prophesy.The Bible is prophecy.
The verses you speak of are of the remnant.

The two witnesses represent Moses and Elijah who in turn represent the the Law and the Prophets. It was they who appeared with Jesus at the transfiguration. In the Gospels Jesus is portrayed as the new and greater Moses and Elijah. This can be seen in Matthews gospel in particular. That is why he said that the scriptures talk about him.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Just wanted to post this here since it's trending right now.

God has shown lead me in my studies of His plan and I can claim that the two witnesses are the 144,000 sealed Israelites. This is because there were two kingdoms of Israel. Most of the Israelites from both the northern and southern kingdoms forgot their identity as Israelites after generations of exile, but God never lost sight of them. They will be sealed after the sixth seal is opened. When they are they will be at war with the Antichrist and his entire government. After 3.5 years they will all have been killed. 3.5 days later God will raise them from the dead first. Then he will raise all who have ever been truly faithful to Him before Christ and those who accepted Christ after His resurrection. And all of them will ascend into heaven as well as those who are still alive. Note: those still left alive will be few in number because most will have been killed in the war by this point.

The purpose of the two witnesses is twofold. First they are to bear witness for God to man announcing the very final warning mankind will receive. All who reject Him and thus reject being fixed are doomed to be resurrected into eternal damnation by banishment from God's presence forever.

Second they are to bear witness to the end so that mankind may forever remember what happened in that time and that they may testify on judgement day, or the day of final trial.

God has shown this to me as well.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

The two witnesses represent Moses and Elijah who in turn represent the the Law and the Prophets. It was they who appeared with Jesus at the transfiguration. In the Gospels Jesus is portrayed as the new and greater Moses and Elijah. This can be seen in Matthews gospel in particular. That is why he said that the scriptures talk about him.

If the two witnesses represents Moses and Elijah in Revelation,why were the 12 Apostles witnesses of both of what you speak of?

Luke 24:44-48

He said to them,''this is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses ,
the prophets and the psalms.
Then he opened their minds so they can understand the scriptures.
He told them ''This is what is written :The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the trird day,and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations,beginning at Jerusalem.
You are witnesses of these things.

Jesus opened up their minds to all of the scriptures.That includes everything that is written about him (Jesus),the Law of Moses ,the Prophets and the Psalms.
The Bible is his testimony (Jesus) .In the NT he makes the Apostles his witnesses of his testimony by opening up the OT scriptures to him.

People tend to over look this verse,thinking that the Apostles were only to witness his suffering,death and rise on the third day.
But that's also in the OT scripture.It all leads up to Jesus.

Here's another overlooked verse.

Matthew :28:18-20

Then Jesus came and said to them ''All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations,baptizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit,and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.And surely I am with you always to the very end of the age.

He will be with them always to the very end of the age.The 144,000 will be his witnesses of his testimony,which is the Bible.The Bible is the two witnesses spoken of in Rev:11.
The remnant will be his witnesses of his testimony by opening up their minds to the scriptures.
Just like the 12 Apostles were witnesses of the OT scripture.

Revelation:14:1-2

Then I looked,and there before me was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion,and with him 144,000 who had his name and his fathers names written on their foreheads.

And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters (thirsty anyone?)
And like a loud peal of thunder(voice of God)
The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps.(song of the 144,000/opening up of scriptures.)

When Jesus said in John:12:28
"Father glorify your name!
Then a voice came from heaven,I have glorified it,and will glorify it again.

Some thought it had thundered,others thought it was the voice of a angel.
He did glorify his name during Jesus death on the cross,but he will glorify it again in Revelation.

The reason why the Lamb stands with the 144,000 is because they will preach repentance as his witnesses to the testimony of the Lamb.

 

[jb]

DP sticks nose in air and prisses away. LOL

Nearly missed the (bold) "r" when reading this post!

 

[pottersclay]

It is believed that Enoch and Elijah are the 2witnesses. The 144 thousand are 12 thousand from each tribe, 12x12= 144.

Maybe someone posted I skipped a few pages.....my bad.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

It is believed that Enoch and Elijah are the 2witnesses. The 144 thousand are 12 thousand from each tribe, 12x12= 144.

Maybe someone posted I skipped a few pages.....my bad.

Jesus is the faithful witness.It is his testimony that are the two witnesses.
This is backed up by Luke 24 verses that I've given in my last post.
In those verses he unlocks the scriptures of the OT,that includes the Law of Moses,the Prophets and the psalms.
Then he says ''you are witnesses of these things''
In the Matthew verse he says he will be with them at the very end of the age(the Apostles.)
The 144,000 will be the next one's who will be his witnesses of all that is written about him(knowledge of scripture)
I've already given scripture that backs this up,read it.

 

[pottersclay]

How do you explain that your 2witnesses have bodies that lie in the streets for 3days?

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

How do you explain that your 2witnesses have bodies that lie in the streets for 3days?

I explained it a bunch of times already lol.I take that you didn't bother reading,or zipped through the tread.

 

[pottersclay]

ea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundredand forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousandwere sealed;[a]
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand weresealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousandwere sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand weresealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousandwere sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousandwere sealed.

[h=3]I don't know maybe wrong.......servants of God. .....foreheads...let me see 12x12 = 144.....plus the fact that 1260 = 3 and a half yrs......tribulation =7 yrs divided by 2 = 3 and a half....don't know maybe I'm reaching? 2witnesses =only 2people in bible that never saw death.....Elijah and Enoch...with the probability of Moses...let me see the Jews do set a place setting for Elijah during passover..John the Baptist and Jesus was asked if they were the prophet Elijah.[/h] Do you think my bible's broken....????......hope not.

 

[Ahwatukee]

ea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundredand forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousandwere sealed;[a]
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand weresealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousandwere sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand weresealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousandwere sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousandwere sealed.

I don't know maybe wrong.......servants of God. .....foreheads...let me see 12x12 = 144.....plus the fact that 1260 = 3 and a half yrs......tribulation =7 yrs divided by 2 = 3 and a half....don't know maybe I'm reaching? 2witnesses =only 2people in bible that never saw death.....Elijah and Enoch...with the probability of Moses...let me see the Jews do set a place setting for Elijah during passover..John the Baptist and Jesus was asked if they were the prophet Elijah.

Do you think my bible's broken....????......hope not.

You are correct sir! Your Bible is not broken, as I understand the scripture to be the same. Also, regarding what "Lifted_By_the_word" said, The two witnesses are exactly that, two literal men. Likewise, the 144,000 are 144,000, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes. Therefore, the two witnesses and the 144,000 are not the same, but are just exactly how they are introduced in scripture, having two different agendas. Just as scripture states, the two witnesses will prophesy in the streets of Jerusalem for 1,260 days and will be given power to bring plagues upon the earth as often as they want and will be killed by the beast who comes up out of the Abyss after they have finished. The male child is a collective name for the 144,000 who are referred to as the servants of God and are the only ones on earth who are said to be sealed during the time of God's wrath. In the middle of that last seven years, they will be caught up to God and his throne.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

ea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundredand forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousandwere sealed;[a]
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand weresealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousandwere sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand weresealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousandwere sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousandwere sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousandwere sealed.

I don't know maybe wrong.......servants of God. .....foreheads...let me see 12x12 = 144.....plus the fact that 1260 = 3 and a half yrs......tribulation =7 yrs divided by 2 = 3 and a half....don't know maybe I'm reaching? 2witnesses =only 2people in bible that never saw death.....Elijah and Enoch...with the probability of Moses...let me see the Jews do set a place setting for Elijah during passover..John the Baptist and Jesus was asked if they were the prophet Elijah.

Do you think my bible's broken....????......hope not.

Where in the Bible does it say that the two witnesses never saw death?Is my Bible broken?

Jesus sends out 72 messagers out before him in Luke 10.
But now there's two testimonys OT/NT so times that by 2
72x2=144(remnant)
They will pair up as before. 144 divided by 2 is 72
The remnant are the next Apostles. 144 divided by 12=12
Apostles catch 153 fish when Jesus tells them to throw their net in.
1+5+3=9 144+9=153

And why does Jesus tell the 12 Apostles that they will be his witnesses of the scriptures that include both the Law of Moses,the prophets and the psalms in Luke:24:44-48?

 

[pottersclay]

Lifted....I do mean this in all sincerity.. I have never heard of your teaching on the issue.
I have studied this before and it's been more yrs. than you post your age.
In plain words are the 144 defined, servants of God with foreheads....people...Jews.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

I also asked you guys what a witness is and nobody responsed.
But I ask you something esle.
Do you know that the Bible is the testimony of Jesus?

 

[pottersclay]

Lifted......no one escapes this earth without dieing...not even Jesus ....so what are we to say about Enoch and Elijah...God took them both for future use.... looking for 2witnesses.....got 2 people that never seen death, you do the math.

Sir it may serve you well to look up what I and others have posted so if you find a flaw you can defend your position better. My advice is like the other post here. Stop the spiritualism.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Lifted....I do mean this in all sincerity.. I have never heard of your teaching on the issue.
I have studied this before and it's been more yrs. than you post your age.
In plain words are the 144 defined, servants of God with foreheads....people...Jews.

Don't you remember this verse?
Matthew 11:25
At the time Jesus said ''I praise you,father,Lord of heaven and earth,because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned,and revealed them to little children.