The Unanswerable Questions (Extended)

[KennethC]

That's a clever argument, but it doesn't work if you think that it proves Sabbath and festival observance.

Read Colossians 2:16-17. It obviously identifies Sabbath and Holy Days as shadows that the Gentile Colossians didn't need to observe.

While you are at it, compare these Scriptures to Hebrews 10:1-2 which uses the same language of shadows to apply to the animal sacrifices.

I realize that some groups try to apply a different context to Colossians 2:16-17 but they are taking those verses out of the context of the whole chapter, as well as denying the link to "shadows" of animal sacrifices to the "shadows' of the Sabbath and holy days.

The context of the whole chapter is how we are complete in Christ, and don't need to pursue a higher level of worship through pursuing any other approach of him, regardless if it is Judaizing or worship of angels or "philosophy" or whatever.

What Colossians 2:16-17 is speaking about in the context is that rather you observe the Sabbath in the same manner as the OT stated or not we are not to judge one another on this.

Meaning those who do observe are not to judge those who don't, and vise versa, those who don't are not to judge those who do.

Notice how it is talking about eating and drinking in the same passage, because as Paul was making a point that the standards of the new covenant how things are to be done and observed has changed. Apostle Paul says some people esteem one day above others (Sabbath), and others consider all days alike. Then goes on and says as long as you are giving that day or days to God then you are living properly in the faith.

Romans 14:5-23 clears this up about the Sabbath and about drink and food as well, as Paul shows that of what I just mentioned and then says the only way eating anything is wrong is if it causes another to stumble or puts a stumbling block on their growth in the faith.

Other words those who continue to say to others they still can not eat certain foods that the OT written ordinances called unclean or they will be in sin is teaching them falsely and putting a stumbling block on them. Paul says all things are clean now !!!

 

[prove-all]

That's a clever argument, but it doesn't work if you think that it proves Sabbath and festival observance.

Read Colossians 2:16-17. It obviously identifies Sabbath and Holy Days as shadows that the Gentile Colossians didn't need to observe.

.

mabe you should reread it and see where you error

"Let no man therefore judge you"

-so then why do you slander all the sabbaths keeping christiens
and chuck the first stone over and over.?

why did jews record and preserve the oracles of God then?

 

[KennethC]

mabe you should reread it and see where you error

"Let no man therefore judge you"

-so then why do you slander all the sabbaths keeping christiens
and chuck the first stone over and over.?

why did jews record and preserve the oracles of God then?

Here is the thing and that is the moral aspect of the 10 commandments still apply under the new covenant, but the whole 613 written ordinances of the Mosaic law does not apply. The new testament clearly says that we are not to obey those ordinances, and that they were done away with. (Acts 15, Colossians 2:14)

This is why the debating about the law is unprofitable according to the bible, because you will always have those believe the 613 Mosaic written ordinances still apply to Gentile believers debating with those who believe no standards have to be kept under the new covenant. Both stances are wrong and until one understands to divide the moral form the written ordinance this will continue to be this way.......

 

[sparkman]

mabe you should reread it and see where you error

"Let no man therefore judge you"

-so then why do you slander all the sabbaths keeping christiens
and chuck the first stone over and over.?

why did jews record and preserve the oracles of God then?

I have no issue with those who keep the Sabbath and Holy Days without trying to teach others they must do so.

Colossians were being judged by Judaizers of some sort, whether they were Essene Jews or some other type of Judaizers for not keeping the Sabbath and Holy Days. The language of "shadows" plainly indicates this. As I have said, compare it to Hebrews 10:1-2.

There's also indications of pagan influences, which could be the same group who syncretized elements of paganism, or a totally separate second group.

In addition, the overall context of the chapter proves that believers are sufficient in Christ, and don't need to pursue God through some path defined by these heretics.

Paul called Judaizers "dogs"..I have no issue with pointing out the logical fallacies.

By the way, Armstrongism is beyond Judaizing. It is simply a cult. I know their teachings inside and out, being one myself for over 10 years. The claim is that those who don't keep the Sabbath and Holy Days are unsaved, and that the goal of converted men is to become Gods by being perfected throughout their lives.

 

[sparkman]

Jesus isn't the Arian version of him that you preach. He is co-equal with the Father.

Yes he did keep the Sabbath and every other part of the Old Covenant.

By the way your new username has been reported.

The true Jesus Christ of the Bible is in total agreement with his father, and rests on the true sabbath, just as He commands.

The world's Jesus abolished God's law, and made up new commandments. One of those new commandments is to worship on sunday, isntead of the sabbath.

 

[flob]

Now the Sabbath is a person, and's fulfilled in a person,
Come to Me all who toil and are burdened, and I will give you rest,
Mt 11--12

 

[Danel]

Lol eliwood. Don't you know we're not under law but under GRACE? Stop being so legalistic.

 

[Samsaviel]

God's law is a precious gift from above that shows me where I need improvement. I meditate on it everyday, always wondering how I can draw even closer to Him, and be faithful to His love and forgiveness. I can never forget about it, because it's written on my heart, and my mind. The more closely I obey it, the more abundant the Holy Spirit is in my life. And in times of hardship, I can be confident to go to the Father for help, because I know He's anxious to help those who obey Him.

 

[sparkman]

If you're such a proponent of God's law, why do you feel free to lie, using fake information to set up new user IDs after being banned multiple times?

God's law is a precious gift from above that shows me where I need improvement. I meditate on it everyday, always wondering how I can draw even closer to Him, and be faithful to His love and forgiveness. I can never forget about it, because it's written on my heart, and my mind. The more closely I obey it, the more abundant the Holy Spirit is in my life. And in times of hardship, I can be confident to go to the Father for help, because I know He's anxious to help those who obey Him.

 

[sparkman]

Why are you talking to yourself? And why do you claim to love the law, when you freely lie to set up new user IDs after being banned?

Your behavior condemns yourself, you know. You claim to love God's law but are lying continually to evade bans.

For those who can't figure him out, this is Eliwood with yet another userid. This time he gained 8 years of age in a few weeks.

Lol eliwood. Don't you know we're not under law but under GRACE? Stop being so legalistic.

 

[sparkman]

View attachment 120243

"But Jesus! My pastor told me God's law is just for JEWS!"

lol

This individual keeps coming back under false user ids.

His character is very lacking if he laughs about people being sent to eternal punishment for anything.

By the way he wrote a thread talking about how hell is a cruel lie, but he's laughing about people getting sent to eternal punishment. In addition, he sets up ids using false information, which is lying. He proclaims his love for the Sabbath, but is perfectly fine with lying and posting such memes.

 

[prove-all]

Now the Sabbath is a person, and's fulfilled in a person,
Come to Me all who toil and are burdened, and I will give you rest,
Mt 11--12

no that verse does not say Christ is the sabbath

 

[sparkman]

no that verse does not say Christ is the sabbath

Sabbath is a rest. It's inferred. The exact word doesn't need to be used.

You can deny the truth all you want. It's in front of your face.

 

[prove-all]

Sabbath is a rest. It's inferred. The exact word doesn't need to be used.

You can deny the truth all you want. It's in front of your face.

sabbath is a day, blessed, the 7th day of week, of something to come.

the whole world is at [rest] when satan, sent away to deserted area where he can not cause harm.

 

[prove-all]

Sabbath is a rest. It's inferred. The exact word doesn't need to be used.

.

ok, so if the holy convocations mentioned as [things to come] after Christ,

you say Christ is now our sabbath rest, what does the other feasts picture in Christ?

we know Christ is our passover[thank God] but what do the other feasts mean then?

was not pentacost the picture of the start of n.t. church, starting firstfruits harvest of man?

 

[sparkman]

ok, so if the holy convocations mentioned as [things to come] after Christ,

you say Christ is now our sabbath rest, what does the other feasts picture in Christ?

we know Christ is our passover[thank God] but what do the other feasts mean then?

was not pentacost the picture of the start of n.t. church, starting firstfruits harvest of man?

A friend who keeps the Feasts from a non-legalistic standpoint gave this to me.

I need to review it myself in more detail, though.

Sabbath: [Rest] (Seventh day)

Matt 11:28-30
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.



Passover (Abib 14) [Forgiveness of Sin] John 1:29
29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
KJV

Gen 22:8
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
KJV
(understanding here requires:

1) That the burnt offering was a sin offering.

2) The the Hebrew offers a double take:

........God will provide [by] himself a lamb [on the day Abraham spoke the words.]

........God will provide [of] himself a lamb [on the cross]


Firstfruits (of the Barley harvest) (The Sunday following Abib 15) [Resurrection to Eternal Life]

1 Cor 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
KJV


Shavouot (Weeks) [Celebration of freedom from bondage]
(50 days after the Sabbath following Abib 14) John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
KJV


[ Celebrating the 'Yoke of Torah' /Deliverance] Matt 11:29-30
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
KJV



Yom T'ruach (Day of Trumpets) (Ethanum 1) [Resurrection to eternal life] 1 Cor 15:52-58
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
KJV


Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) (Ethanum 10) [Jesus is both our Scapegoat and the propitiation for our sin(s). Lev 16:8-10
8 And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
9 And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
10 But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
KJV

Rom 3:25-30
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
KJV



Sukkot (Tabernacles) [Thanksgiving]

IMO, This is the correct time to celebrate Jesus' birth. John 1:12-14
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt [tabernacled] among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
KJV

This is the only appointed time that we know will me mandatory for all nations to observe during the Millenium. Zech 14:16-19
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[Kaycie]

Both laws are actually the same law, it is just that one was done physically and one is done spiritually. The spiritual is better than the physical- therefore doing the law spiritually is even better than doing it physically. The law is perfect, but to do the law in a better way is where you get the word 'better'.

For example, let's say I'm angry at my neighbor for what they did to me, yet the law says to feed your neighbor. So I go over and slop mashed potatoes on their plate, and it splatters onto their face. I laugh and walk away. Did I obey the law to feed my neighbor? Yes I did, physically.

Now a month goes by, my anger subsides, and I see my neighbor starving. My heart feels compassion for him. It moves me to go over and present him a nice meal, in a nice way. He mentions how he wronged me. I mention that I've forgiven him, and that I'm not perfect either. His eyes water because he was touched by love. Did I obey the law to feed my neighbor? Yes I did, but in a better way.

Someone can take my arm and control me to hand something to someone else, but that's just a physical thing. It is BETTER if it comes from my heart spiritually so much that it moves me to put it into action physically. It is better because the physical cannot exist without the spiritual, but the spiritual CAN exist without the physical. Your actions reflect what's in your heart.

If you cut off the top of a weed, it won't be seen for a while, but it will still exist, and grow back. BUT if you remove the root of the weed, then the reason it is not seen is because it does not exist.

So so it is better to learn and love the law, and let it change you on the inside- to where you feel moved to act in such ways anyways, than to just have someone tell you to physically do this and that.

Is it better for someone to tell you to open the door for someone who has their hands full, or for you to see the problem and respond by opening the door for them? When you have the ability to respond- that is having respond-sibility. And to be responsible is to be loving. Effort is the evidence of love, but effort itself is not love. Love is spiritual. The love that motivates you to action is better than the action.

Therefore, the spiritual way is better than the physical way. What is better- the tree, or the shadow of the tree? The tree by far- it gives life and shelter, it makes the air. Are the tree and the tree's shadow the same shape? Yes they are the same, then how can one be better? Because one is the actual thing. In the same way, the old law was just a shadow of the new law. The blood of bulls and goats did not save them. It was Christ Who died one time for all people. His blood covered all in the past, present, and future who obey God.

Jesus says if you love God and love your neighbor you fulfill the law, because if you love God and your neighbor you won't worship false gods, murder, or steal, or etc. Spiritually you will be propelled to act accordingly. And the more you read the bible and have your mind on what the Spirit desires, the more it will transform you into the likeness of Christ.