The violent process of separating the wheat and the chaff

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Sep 3, 2016
3,610
318
83
#1
“11 I indeed baptize you with water unto Repentance (Water Baptism was an outward act of an inward work already carried out): but He (Christ) Who comes after me is mightier than I, Whose Shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire (to burn out the sinful dross [Acts 2:2-4]):

12 Whose fan is in His Hand (the ancient method for winnowing grain), and He will thoroughly purge His Floor (“purging it, that it may bring forth more fruit” [Jn. 15:2]), and gather His Wheat into the garner (the end product as developed by the Spirit); but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire (the wheat is symbolic of the Work of the Spirit, while the chaff is symbolic of the work of the flesh).” Matthew 3:11-12

WHOSE FAN IS IN HIS HAND

The Work of the Holy Spirit is here outlined, which will, without fail, take place in the hearts and lives of Believers.

The phrase, "Whose fan is in His Hand," refers to the ancient method of winnowing grain.

After the stalks had been pulverized on the threshingfloor, a worker would use a pitchfork of sorts, throwing the grain and the husk in the air.

Another worker, that is, if there was no wind, would use giant palm fronds or some other type of apparatus, fanning the grain and the husk. Consequently, the husks, which were much lighter, would be blown to the side of the threshingfloor, with the grain falling back to the floor.

This would be continued until all the husks were separated from the grain, with the grain being placed into the garner.

The idea is, the primary task of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Believer is to bring about this process, using whatever is necessary in order to separate the chaff from the grain. This "wind" created by the "fan" may come in various ways, such as adversity, persecution, chastisement, etc., but, to be sure, it will come.

As well, it speaks of a violent process, which is not at all appetizing to the flesh, but will prove to be invigorating to the spirit.

DAVID

As an example, one would ask as to why the Lord, after having Samuel anoint David to be the future king of Israel, would allow Saul to persecute him as he did, even causing great tribulation for a period of about 15 years.

The answer is found in Verse 12. Even though David was anointed by God to be the king of Israel, still, there were traits in David’s life that needed to be removed. Regrettably, those traits, as in all of us, could not be removed easily but only by adversity and persecution, which are meant to teach us trust and dependence on the Lord, in other words, that the flesh may be humbled.

David was anointed, but he was not ready! It would take this crucible of persecution by Saul to make him ready!

The story of Moses teaches us that “40 years in the desert was needed to humble the strength of the “flesh” and destroy its hope; the possible king of Egypt was now an obscure shepherd.” Exodus 3:1-2

THE BRANCH

2 Every branch (Believer) in Me (to have Salvation, we must be “in Christ” which refers to trusting in what He did at the Cross) that bears not fruit (the Holy Spirit Alone can bring forth fruit within our lives, and He does such through the Finished Work of Christ, which demands that the Cross ever be the Object of our Faith) He takes away (if the Believer refuses the Cross, ultimately, he will be taken out of the Body of Christ): and every branch that bears fruit (has some understanding of Christ and the Cross), He purges it (uses whatever means necessary to make the Cross the total Object of one’s Faith), that it may bring forth more fruit (only when the Cross becomes the total Object of one’s Faith can the Holy Spirit perform His Work of bringing forth proper fruit [Rom. 8:1-2, 11]).” John 15:2

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible / Matthew Bible Commentary
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,610
318
83
#2
THE PURGING OF THE FLOOR

The Phrase, "And He will thoroughly purge His Floor," is actually the violent part of the process.

The Threshingfloor of old generally consisted of a large flat portion of rock that could be used for this purpose.

The grain would be piled on top of this rock (floor), with several different methods used to purge the grain from the husk. At times, an ox cart was used, with it being pulled back and forth across the grain, with its heavy wheels breaking the grains loose from the husk. This was done repeatedly until it was ready to be thrown in the air, as recently stated.

The purging process has to do with what Jesus spoke of in taking away the branches from the tree that did not bear fruit and, consequently, "purging it, that it may bring forth more fruit" (John 15:2).

As stated, this is a violent process, which, at times, makes the Believer think he will not survive it. This has to do with the age old struggle of the "flesh and the Spirit." They constantly war against one another because one or the other must ultimately go. To be sure, this war is not quick, and the battle is not won easily.

THE THRESHINGFLOOR

Many have attempted to circumvent the "threshingfloor" with many and varied schemes, not the least of them being the modern confession principle. However, regardless of how Scripturally valid that it may be in its place, the flesh cannot be confessed out, and this work be effected in one's heart. Too oftentimes, this method only produces more religious flesh. Even though such is covered up with religious phraseology, petted and pampered, and made to seem holy to a carnal world, still it is "flesh" and must ultimately be purged, that is, if we want the Lord.

THE GARNER

The phrase, "And gather His Wheat into the garner," concerns the end product as developed by the Spirit.

Even after Conversion, and especially after Conversion, our Spiritual Eyes are still a mixture of "chaff" and "wheat." The "chaff" constitutes the work of the flesh while the "wheat" constitutes the Work of the Spirit. They must, and without fail, be separated. The reason should be obvious!

Any and all accepted by God can only be that which is the Product of the Holy Spirit. Any product of man, i.e., the flesh, must be rejected out of hand, and not only rejected, but separated and ultimately burned. As stated, this is the great basic Work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Believer. It is a Work that He will carry out with vigor and faithfulness with one view in mind, and that is to "present us faultless before the Presence of His Glory with exceeding joy" (Jude 24).

This is also the reason Jude said, "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh" (Jude 23).

UNQUENCHABLE FIRE

He was speaking of this "fire" mentioned by John the Baptist!

The phrase, "But He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire," pertains to that which will be done to the "chaff." This speaks of all our trust and our good works, plus religious acceptance, place and position, and all we prize so highly other than Christ.

Regrettably, this "chaff" abides even in the godliest and, consequently, must be separated, and at whatever price.

JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,610
318
83
#3
THE PURGED BRANCH

The phrase, "And every branch that bears fruit, He purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit," proclaims the exact opposite of the first phrase.

He plainly tells us that the branch which bears fruit will be purged, which, in the Greek, means "to cleanse, as in to make pure.'

One may wonder as to how fruit could be developed when there is uncleanness and impurities.

The truth is, there are no perfect Christians, but the Lord looks beyond the surface and, as well, the impurities, etc., "searching the heart, trying the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings" (Jeremiah 17:10). The very fact that the branch is bearing fruit shows there is a hunger for God, even a hunger and thirst which are intensifying, desiring all that God has for the Believer.

However, once again, this does not mean perfection, and indeed cannot, at least as long as we live in this body of flesh.

However, many, if not the majority, in the church wrongly interpret purging, thinking it is destruction. As such, they write off such as being of no more consequence. What they do not seem to realize is that the "purging" is not because of a lack of fruit but the very opposite. There has been fruit, and wonderful fruit at that, but the Holy Spirit sees that there is a potential for much more. Consequently, the Father, Who is the Vinedresser, purges the branch in order that it may bring forth "more fruit," which refers to greater quantity, but above all, greater quality.

THE PURGING

The cleansing effect of the purging is brought on by the Word of God; consequently, it is the criterion for all things pertaining to God. In other words, the "Vinedresser" does whatever is necessary to bring one's life in every respect in accordance with the "Word." The actual carrying out of this task is done by the Holy Spirit through Whom the "Vinedresser" works. This is partly what John the Baptist meant when he spoke of Jesus "baptizing with the Holy Spirit, and with fire" (Matthew 3:11-12) This is the refiner's fire, as spoken of by Malachi (Malachi 3:3).

Malachi 3:3 - "And He shall sit as a Refiner and Purifier of silver," refers to the purifier who sits watching the silver and maintaining the temperature; directly when he sees his face reflected in the metal, he stops the process.

The word "clean" in the Greek is "Katharos" and means "to be free from impure admixture, without blemish, spotless, and blameless, " which can only be brought about by the shed Blood of Jesus Christ, with the Believer making that the Object of his Faith.

JSM / John Bible Commentary
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,610
318
83
#5
THE CONSECRATION OF THE SAINT

“12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the Presence of the LORD. (There were limitations placed on what Satan could do, as there are with all Believers. Concerning this, Williams says: “Job does not symbolize an unconverted, but a converted, man. It was necessary that one of God’s children should be chosen for this trial; for the subject of the Book is not the conversion of the sinner, but the consecration of the Saint. It is evident that an unconverted man needs to be brought to the end of himself; but that a man who feared God, who was perfect, and who hated evil should also need this is not so clear.

“We find in this Book that God uses Satan, calamity, and sickness to be His instruments in creating character and making men partakers of His Holiness. Such were the instruments; but the Hand that used them was God’s; and the facts of this Book explain to Christian people, who, like Job, are conscious of personal integrity, why calamities, sorrows, and diseases are permitted to afflict them.”)” Job 1:12

“22 Confirming the souls of the Disciples (pertained to the new converts in these areas), and exhorting them to continue in the Faith (it is not he who begins, but he who finishes), and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God (quite a different Message than that being presently proposed).” Acts14:22

Until the time came to fulfill his dreams, the LORD tested Joseph’s character. (Regarding the mission that God had for Joseph, which Joseph was not even aware of, he would have to be put to the test. Faith must be tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly.)” Psalm 105:19 NLT

“10 Behold, I have refined you, but not with silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction. (Israel was “refined” in Egypt, and was to be “refined” after Isaiah’s day in Babylon, and will be “refined” during the coming Great Tribulation. The “furnace of affliction” always has to do with wrongdoing on the part of the individual or nation. The Lord allows the affliction, hopefully, that it will bring the person or nation to Repentance! Consequently, Israel still has one great “furnace of affliction” to go through!)Isaiah 48:10

“7 That the trial of your Faith (all Faith is tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly), being much more precious than of gold that perishes (the emphasis is the testing of our Faith to show whether or not it is genuine; the Holy Spirit says such is more precious than the testing of gold, which is the most precious commodity in the world; is our Faith really in the Cross or not?), though it be tried with fire (the fire of temptation, trouble, etc.; such are meant to show the weakness), might be found unto Praise and Honour and Glory (which can only be done if the Cross of Christ is the sole Object of our Faith) at the appearing of Jesus Christ (we are being prepared by the Holy Spirit as fit subjects for the appearing of our Lord, as it regards the Rapture):” 1 Peter 1:7

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,610
318
83
#6
THE CONSECRATION OF THE SAINT

“12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the Presence of the LORD. (There were limitations placed on what Satan could do, as there are with all Believers. Concerning this, Williams says: “Job does not symbolize an unconverted, but a converted, man. It was necessary that one of God’s children should be chosen for this trial; for the subject of the Book is not the conversion of the sinner, but the consecration of the Saint. It is evident that an unconverted man needs to be brought to the end of himself; but that a man who feared God, who was perfect, and who hated evil should also need this is not so clear.

“We find in this Book that God uses Satan, calamity, and sickness to be His instruments in creating character and making men partakers of His Holiness. Such were the instruments; but the Hand that used them was God’s; and the facts of this Book explain to Christian people, who, like Job, are conscious of personal integrity, why calamities, sorrows, and diseases are permitted to afflict them.”)” Job 1:12

“22 Confirming the souls of the Disciples (pertained to the new converts in these areas), and exhorting them to continue in the Faith (it is not he who begins, but he who finishes), and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God (quite a different Message than that being presently proposed).” Acts14:22

Until the time came to fulfill his dreams, the LORD tested Joseph’s character. (Regarding the mission that God had for Joseph, which Joseph was not even aware of, he would have to be put to the test. Faith must be tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly.)” Psalm 105:19 NLT

“10 Behold, I have refined you, but not with silver; I have chosen you in the furnace of affliction. (Israel was “refined” in Egypt, and was to be “refined” after Isaiah’s day in Babylon, and will be “refined” during the coming Great Tribulation. The “furnace of affliction” always has to do with wrongdoing on the part of the individual or nation. The Lord allows the affliction, hopefully, that it will bring the person or nation to Repentance! Consequently, Israel still has one great “furnace of affliction” to go through!)Isaiah 48:10

“7 That the trial of your Faith (all Faith is tested, and great Faith must be tested greatly), being much more precious than of gold that perishes (the emphasis is the testing of our Faith to show whether or not it is genuine; the Holy Spirit says such is more precious than the testing of gold, which is the most precious commodity in the world; is our Faith really in the Cross or not?), though it be tried with fire (the fire of temptation, trouble, etc.; such are meant to show the weakness), might be found unto Praise and Honour and Glory (which can only be done if the Cross of Christ is the sole Object of our Faith) at the appearing of Jesus Christ (we are being prepared by the Holy Spirit as fit subjects for the appearing of our Lord, as it regards the Rapture):” 1 Peter 1:7

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
Continue

“12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you (trials do not merely happen; they are designed by wisdom and operated by love; Job proved this), as though some strange thing happened unto you (your trial, whatever it is, is not unique; many others are experiencing the same thing!):

13 But rejoice (despite the trial), inasmuch as you are partakers of Christ’s sufferings (refers to suffering for Righteousness’ sake); that, when His Glory shall be revealed (refers to His Second Coming), you may be glad also with exceeding joy. (There will be great joy in the heart of every Saint when we come back with the Lord at the Second Coming.)

“14 If you be reproached for the Name of Christ, happy are you (should have been translated, “since you are reproached”); for the Spirit of Glory and of God rests upon you (refers to the Holy Spirit): on their part He is evil spoken of, but on your part He is glorified. (This refers to the fact that the world, and even the apostate Church, reproaches this sacred influence of the Holy Spirit by their treatment of true Christians. But if we conduct ourselves correctly, the Lord is Glorified in our lives.)

15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters. (This Scripture plainly tells us that if the Christian doesn’t place His Faith entirely in the Cross, which guarantees the help of the Holy Spirit, these things Peter mentioned can definitely happen. That’s why it is imperative every Believer knows and understands the Message of the Cross.)”

“16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian (which sometimes happens for Righteousness’ sake), let him not be ashamed (such a one is not suffering because of lack of Faith, but rather because of his Faith); but let him glorify God on this behalf. (If we truly suffer for Righteousness’ sake, such suffering will always glorify the Lord. We should rejoice accordingly [Vs. 13].)

JUDGMENT

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the House of God (Judgment always begins with Believers, and pertains to their Faith, whether in the Cross or otherwise; the Cross alone is spared Judgment, for there Jesus was judged in our place): and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them who obey not the Gospel of God? (If God will Judge His Own, how much more will He Judge the unredeemed? The Cross alone stays the Judgment of God. Let that ever be understood.)”

“18 And if the Righteous scarcely be saved (can be saved only by trusting Christ and the Cross, and nothing else), where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (If the great Sacrifice of Christ is rejected and spurned, where does that leave those who do such a thing? There is no hope for their Salvation.)

19 Wherefore let them who suffer according to the Will of God (it really doesn’t matter what we have to go through in order to live for God, the end result will be worth it a million times over) commit the keeping of their souls to Him in well doing (victory is assured if we continue to look to the Cross), as unto a Faithful Creator. (This means God hasn’t created an insufficient Salvation. He has created a Way through the Death of Christ that guarantees victory, if we will only follow that Way.)” 1 Peter 4:12-19

“12 Fight the good fight of Faith (in essence, the only fight we’re called upon to engage; every attack by Satan against the Believer, irrespective of its form, is to destroy or seriously weaken our Faith; he wants to push our Faith from the Cross to other things), lay hold on Eternal Life (we do such by understanding that all Life comes from Christ, and the means is the Cross), whereunto you are also Called (Called to follow Christ), and have professed a good profession before many witnesses. (This does not refer to a particular occasion, but to the entirety of his life for Christ.)1 Timothy 6:12

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,058
7,460
113
64
Florida
#7
I am trending towards whole wheat bread myself. Honey wheat is good too and so is multi-grain bread but the OP is about wheat so I will stick to that. I do have a tube of chaff stick in the car though so this thread can stay on message.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
7,736
3,877
113
#9
Our Salvation is in Jesus, because of who He is, (God in the flesh), and what He has done, (crucified, died and rose again)

NOT IN THE CROSS, OR HOW WE CARRY IT!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
29,058
7,460
113
64
Florida
#10
Continue

“12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you (trials do not merely happen; they are designed by wisdom and operated by love; Job proved this), as though some strange thing happened unto you (your trial, whatever it is, is not unique; many others are experiencing the same thing!):

13 But rejoice (despite the trial), inasmuch as you are partakers of Christ’s sufferings (refers to suffering for Righteousness’ sake); that, when His Glory shall be revealed (refers to His Second Coming), you may be glad also with exceeding joy. (There will be great joy in the heart of every Saint when we come back with the Lord at the Second Coming.)

“14 If you be reproached for the Name of Christ, happy are you (should have been translated, “since you are reproached”); for the Spirit of Glory and of God rests upon you (refers to the Holy Spirit): on their part He is evil spoken of, but on your part He is glorified. (This refers to the fact that the world, and even the apostate Church, reproaches this sacred influence of the Holy Spirit by their treatment of true Christians. But if we conduct ourselves correctly, the Lord is Glorified in our lives.)

15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men’s matters. (This Scripture plainly tells us that if the Christian doesn’t place His Faith entirely in the Cross, which guarantees the help of the Holy Spirit, these things Peter mentioned can definitely happen. That’s why it is imperative every Believer knows and understands the Message of the Cross.)”

“16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian (which sometimes happens for Righteousness’ sake), let him not be ashamed (such a one is not suffering because of lack of Faith, but rather because of his Faith); but let him glorify God on this behalf. (If we truly suffer for Righteousness’ sake, such suffering will always glorify the Lord. We should rejoice accordingly [Vs. 13].)

JUDGMENT

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the House of God (Judgment always begins with Believers, and pertains to their Faith, whether in the Cross or otherwise; the Cross alone is spared Judgment, for there Jesus was judged in our place): and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them who obey not the Gospel of God? (If God will Judge His Own, how much more will He Judge the unredeemed? The Cross alone stays the Judgment of God. Let that ever be understood.)”

“18 And if the Righteous scarcely be saved (can be saved only by trusting Christ and the Cross, and nothing else), where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? (If the great Sacrifice of Christ is rejected and spurned, where does that leave those who do such a thing? There is no hope for their Salvation.)

19 Wherefore let them who suffer according to the Will of God (it really doesn’t matter what we have to go through in order to live for God, the end result will be worth it a million times over) commit the keeping of their souls to Him in well doing (victory is assured if we continue to look to the Cross), as unto a Faithful Creator. (This means God hasn’t created an insufficient Salvation. He has created a Way through the Death of Christ that guarantees victory, if we will only follow that Way.)” 1 Peter 4:12-19

“12 Fight the good fight of Faith (in essence, the only fight we’re called upon to engage; every attack by Satan against the Believer, irrespective of its form, is to destroy or seriously weaken our Faith; he wants to push our Faith from the Cross to other things), lay hold on Eternal Life (we do such by understanding that all Life comes from Christ, and the means is the Cross), whereunto you are also Called (Called to follow Christ), and have professed a good profession before many witnesses. (This does not refer to a particular occasion, but to the entirety of his life for Christ.)1 Timothy 6:12

Excerpt From
The Expositor's Study Bible
Jimmy Swaggart
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/the-expositors-study-bible/id399697870?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.
Didn't this Swaggart guy cheated on his wife by fornicating with a prostitute.? And then again after he was forgiven? Seriously, who gives a crap about his twisted perspective on Christian living and conduct. Just another cut and paste job from a person who is no longer scripturally relevant. You need to find a new hero to emulate as this one is seriously tarnished with an ongoing sin problem. You have lost all credibility by believing any garbage that is espoused from his pie hole and then posting it on a Christian web site as the truth.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,610
318
83
#12
Our Salvation is in Jesus, because of who He is, (God in the flesh), and what He has done, (crucified, died and rose again)

NOT IN THE CROSS, OR HOW WE CARRY IT!
The Cross of Christ is as necessary for sanctification as it is for salvation (1 Cor. 1:18).

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood (i.e., the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work), you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.)

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

Sanctifying peace allows the Holy Spirit to deliver the Believer into the death of Christ so Christ life is manifested through the Believer (2 Cor. 4:11, Gal. 2:20-21, Romans 8:2,13, John 14:21). I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me (Who Jesus Is), and gave himself for me (What Jesus Has Done on the Cross for us where the victory was won). Gal. 2:20

If The Believer doesn't enter into the LORD's rest, they die in the wilderness...only a few enter into His rest!

JSM
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,245
5,655
113
#13
The Cross of Christ is as necessary for sanctification as it is for salvation (1 Cor. 1:18).

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood (i.e., the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work), you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" (John 6:66). It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that
In many editions of the Bible, the words in red are those of Christ, which are accorded special authority.

Here, the words in red are the biased opinions of the contributor and have no authority.

Can you say 'eisegesis', boys and girls?
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,610
318
83
#14
In many editions of the Bible, the words in red are those of Christ, which are accorded special authority.

Here, the words in red are the biased opinions of the contributor and have no authority.

Can you say 'eisegesis', boys and girls?[/QUOTEa
As I stated before, when I talk about placing your Faith in Christ, you understand that. When I talk about placing your Faith in the Cross, you and 99% on this form don’t have the foggiest idea what you are talking about. They think you are talking about a wooden beam...it is the same with most Christians.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,245
5,655
113
#15
As I stated before, when I talk about placing your Faith in Christ, you understand that. When I talk about placing your Faith in the Cross, you and 99% on this form don’t have the foggiest idea what you are talking about. They think you are talking about a wooden beam...it is the same with most Christians.
Most Christians don't believe that they were created by "the Cross". Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" came from heaven. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" was prophesied to come from the line of Judah or be born of a virgin. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" was the target of repeated attempts to kill him. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" was beaten, insulted, examined, tortured and killed for our sins. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" died on a Roman execution instrument, was buried, and three days later rose again to life. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" dwells in their hearts, is an ever-present comfort and guide. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" is coming again in glory to rule the world in righteousness.

Most Christians put their faith in the person and finished work of Jesus Christ, the Creator, Redeemer, and King of kings.

As should you.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,610
318
83
#16
Most Christians don't believe that they were created by "the Cross". Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" came from heaven. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" was prophesied to come from the line of Judah or be born of a virgin. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" was the target of repeated attempts to kill him. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" was beaten, insulted, examined, tortured and killed for our sins. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" died on a Roman execution instrument, was buried, and three days later rose again to life. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" dwells in their hearts, is an ever-present comfort and guide. Most Christians don't believe that "the Cross" is coming again in glory to rule the world in righteousness.

Most Christians put their faith in the person and finished work of Jesus Christ, the Creator, Redeemer, and King of kings.

As should you.
The Finished Work of Jesus Christ is the same as, i.e, the Cross, i.e., the Blood of Jesus.

The Believer must understand that when God doesn't see the Believers heart exhibiting Faith in His beloved Son in whom He is pleased, Jesus, and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was one, we have chosen another Jesus (2 Cor. 11:4) which produces strange fire and strange incenses.

When Aaron's sons Nadab & Abihu, Priests of God, ordained of God, called by God, and anointed by God - failed to take coals of fire from the Brazen Altar (A Type of Calvary), but from another source, and put those coals of fire on the Golden Altar, which sat immediately in front of the Veil, which hid the Holy of Holies, where God dwelt between the Mercy seat and the Cherubim. They were devoured by fire from the Holy of Holies. In other words, to do such was, in effect, to bypass Calvary, which God could not tolerate.

All types of Strange fire are being offered up today in Christendom. It looks right, and it looks real, but it does not originate with the Cross. As a result, it cannot be right, and most definitely, it will ultimately be judged by God. As should be plainly and clearly obvious, the Cross is not something that can be ignored. The fire of judgment will consume the Sacrifice, i.e., "Christ," or else it will consume the individual. In other words, we go Christ's way, which is the Cross, or else we face the Judgement of God.

Victory = The Cross of Christ, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, i.e., The Finished Work

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)


Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!


The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,245
5,655
113
#17
The Finished Work of Jesus Christ is the same as, i.e, the Cross, i.e., the Blood of Jesus.
These things are only synonymous in a general sense, not in the specific sense of careful, biblically-sound soteriology.

The Believer must understand that when God doesn't see the Believers heart exhibiting Faith in His beloved Son in whom He is pleased, Jesus, and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was one, we have chosen another Jesus (2 Cor. 11:4) which produces strange fire and strange incenses.
Our faith is in Jesus Christ and what He accomplished. The cross was merely the instrument of His death.

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!
First, this is not a debate between "the way of the Spirit" and "man's way" so drop that line of thinking.

Second, Romans 6:1-14 does not mention "the Cross" at all. In contrast, it mentions Christ (directly or by pronoun) seventeen times.


The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).
Luke 14:27 says, "Whoever does not carry his own cross..." so your logic is deeply flawed. You cannot be continually exalting "The Cross of Christ" and then suddenly flip to our own cross. That is a logical fallacy called equivocation.

Further, Luke 14:27 does not say that carrying our own cross is the way to Jesus, let alone the only way. That is more of your eisegesis.

John 10:1 (together with 10:7) says that whoever tries to enter by means other than Jesus Christ is a thief and a robber. The cross is not mentioned... because it is not relevant.


1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.
You are welcome to provide scriptural evidence for your assertion #2. I don't believe it exists.
The object of our faith is JESUS CHRIST alone.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,610
318
83
#18
These things are only synonymous in a general sense, not in the specific sense of careful, biblically-sound soteriology.



Our faith is in Jesus Christ and what He accomplished. The cross was merely the instrument of His death.



First, this is not a debate between "the way of the Spirit" and "man's way" so drop that line of thinking.

Second, Romans 6:1-14 does not mention "the Cross" at all. In contrast, it mentions Christ (directly or by pronoun) seventeen times.




Luke 14:27 says, "Whoever does not carry his own cross..." so your logic is deeply flawed. You cannot be continually exalting "The Cross of Christ" and then suddenly flip to our own cross. That is a logical fallacy called equivocation.

Further, Luke 14:27 does not say that carrying our own cross is the way to Jesus, let alone the only way. That is more of your eisegesis.

John 10:1 (together with 10:7) says that whoever tries to enter by means other than Jesus Christ is a thief and a robber. The cross is not mentioned... because it is not relevant.




You are welcome to provide scriptural evidence for your assertion #2. I don't believe it exists.
The object of our faith is JESUS CHRIST alone.
I agree with you. The Believers Faith must be exclusively in Who Jesus Is and what Jesus accomplished on the Cross of Calvary (John 6:53). Never forget this! This the degree of BELIEVING THAT IS REQUIRED. Failure to do so, the scripture says, “YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU!” (John 6:53)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
11,245
5,655
113
#19
I agree with you. The Believers Faith must be exclusively in Who Jesus Is and what Jesus accomplished on the Cross of Calvary (John 6:53). Never forget this! This the degree of BELIEVING THAT IS REQUIRED. Failure to do so, the scripture says, “YOU HAVE NO LIFE IN YOU!” (John 6:53)
According to your recent posts, what you and I believe is not the same. John 6:53 doesn't mention "the Cross".

Maybe it's time to stop reading the birdcage lining from JSM and start reading the Bible for yourself.
 
Sep 3, 2016
3,610
318
83
#20
According to your recent posts, what you and I believe is not the same. John 6:53 doesn't mention "the Cross".

Maybe it's time to stop reading the birdcage lining from JSM and start reading the Bible for yourself.
The reason why you don't see "The Cross of Calvary where the victory was won in John 6:53, is because of John 6:66; you walk no more with Christ. You have been taken out of the body of Christ (Repent!!!!!!!).