The Word of Faith VS the Word of God

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massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
475
97
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#21
It was, but hard to see until too late. Several Methodist pastors involved. Many people from mainline churches bored with their sleepy services. College kids from the 3 state area. People just like you and those you know.
Yes but you have recovered and are recovering. Just like me you are a work in progress.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
475
97
28
#22
God, and God alone, is sovereign over the timing of our deaths. No anel or demon can in any sense cause our death before the time God has willed it to occur. According to Romans 6:23 and Revelation 20:11-15, death is separation, separation of our soul-spirit from our body (physical death) and, in the case of unbelievers, everlasting separation from God (eternal death). Death is something that occurs. Death is not an angel, a demon, a person, or any other being. Angels can cause death, and may be involved in what happens to us after death—but there is no such thing as the “angel of death.”
Ohhh I would disagree with one point. We have the choice and can take our own life if we will it in spite of the will of God for our lives. We have the gift of free will and Jonah is a great example of that free will. He chose not to obey God all on his own. God still had his way with Jonah but not before Jonah had to jump ship and get swallowed up by a whale. If he had obeyed God he could have saved himself some time and trouble and stayed on the boat until he reached Nineveh.
We can subvert the will of God in our lives if we choose not to obey God and His will for our lives.
“23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when He sees the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. (The word “destroyer” implies the fact that the Lord sent an Angel to carry out this task. The only protection from judgment is the Cross of Christ.)” Exodus 12

My bible says that Satan comes to steal and kill and destroy. Is Satan a angel?
Yes he was an angel.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Eze 28:3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
Only an angel can be wiser than a prophet.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. The King of Tyre is the King of Pride.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,419
1,582
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#23
Ohhh I would disagree with one point. We have the choice and can take our own life if we will it in spite of the will of God for our lives. We have the gift of free will and Jonah is a great example of that free will. He chose not to obey God all on his own. God still had his way with Jonah but not before Jonah had to jump ship and get swallowed up by a whale. If he had obeyed God he could have saved himself some time and trouble and stayed on the boat until he reached Nineveh.
We can subvert the will of God in our lives if we choose not to obey God and His will for our lives.

Yes he was an angel.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Eze 28:3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
Only an angel can be wiser than a prophet.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. The King of Tyre is the King of Pride.
The very end process of the soul leaving the body is only a God thing. God can permit it or miraculously intervene. A theistic God is exactly that. God can intervene at any moment if He so chooses. Just with Jonah. Jonah could of drowned. Yes Jonah jumped and God could of let him drown. But God didn't.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,419
1,582
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#24
“23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when He sees the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you. (The word “destroyer” implies the fact that the Lord sent an Angel to carry out this task. The only protection from judgment is the Cross of Christ.)” Exodus 12

My bible says that Satan comes to steal and kill and destroy. Is Satan a angel?
Yes as my post said. An angel can be commanded by God but not all death is the cause of an angel. That was an event directly commanded by God.

Some events are natural due to the fallen world we live in. Some are judgements. Some are demonic and evil. You made a absolute claim saying this virus was the Angel of death. I'm simply saying you do not know the cause of this virus.
 
Sep 3, 2016
4,791
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#25
Yes as my post said. An angel can be commanded by God but not all death is the cause of an angel. That was an event directly commanded by God.

Some events are natural due to the fallen world we live in. Some are judgements. Some are demonic and evil. You made a absolute claim saying this virus was the Angel of death. I'm simply saying you do not know the cause of this virus.
Just a glimpse into the spiritual realm:

“8 Be sober (mentally self-controlled), be vigilant (awake and watchful); because your adversary the Devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour (we are faced with a very powerful adversary):”

The conference that is held in Heaven

Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left.

20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner.

21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’

22 The Lord said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the Lord said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’

23 Therefore look! The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you.” 1 Kings 22 NKJV


"JOB"

“12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the Presence of the LORD. (There were limitations placed on what Satan could do, as there are with all Believers. Concerning this, Williams says: “Job does not symbolize an unconverted, but a converted, man. It was necessary that one of God’s children should be chosen for this trial; for the subject of the Book is not the conversion of the sinner, but the consecration of the Saint. It is evident that an unconverted man needs to be brought to the end of himself; but that a man who feared God, who was perfect, and who hated evil should also need this is not so clear.

“We find in this Book that God uses Satan, calamity, and sickness to be His instruments in creating character and making men partakers of His Holiness. Such were the instruments; but the Hand that used them was God’s; and the facts of this Book explain to Christian people, who, like Job, are conscious of personal integrity, why calamities, sorrows, and diseases are permitted to afflict them.”)”

JSM

.
 

Blade

Active member
Nov 19, 2019
193
77
28
#26
Trying to get my head around all this. PLEASE forgive me for I am NOT trying to offend anyone ok? If I say anything .. let me know I will say sorry if it offends.

Trying to understand why some are going after "Word of Faith". Been seeing "where are all the faith preachers praying for the sick" or things like that.

Word of Faith is the word of God. The known word of faith.. your not going to find some video of them saying DONT go to doctors. I have seen some say many years ago we did get some things wrong. <--that right there.. never gets talked about when talking about "Word of Faith" or the video after video of a famous one saying "if I get it wrong.. tell me. I will repent and get it right".

Truth is my personal belief of what I read in Gods word.. is exactly like yours. In that its NOT HIS WORD! We can't try to prove our faith what we believe by Gods word. It does not work like that.

So what about that baby that 13 different things wrong and over 5000 saw that baby that club feet no eyes.. 5000 say it healed. Get up run say MOM for the 1st time. God felt sorry for that baby? God had favorites? Faith.. the preacher talking about something God was showing him. The woman had just enough money to get back home and to see the doctor. So what did she do? She gave everything. Because for the 1st time that preacher said.. give by faith. <---still works but SOME use it the wrong way. I never ever give to get.. for ME thats wrong. But God .. to move God.. FAITH moves GOD!

I have personal stories not just ones I heard. People will talk about "salvation" as in more falling away. Yet just a few years go.. I watched over 1million in one day come to Christ. So for every "no faith " or "no healing" I can show you 2 or more for every one. I have seen the Father doing today MORE GOOD then all the evil going on.

In Christ day people didn't get healed. Hello? Remember that town? Where Christ marveled at their unbelief? Where He could do no mighty work? Just lay hands on a few and teach. Sorry that STILL happens today. Me? I don't care what I see happening around me. I look at His word.. And to this very day. He has ALWAYS KEPT it! Never once has He failed to keep it. I ask for what ever I desire.. I delight in the lord and He gives me the desire of my heart. I can ask my Father for ANYTHING and He will do it. WHY? Because I ask according to what is WRITTEN in His word. I ask NEVER putting me 1st. Its ALWAYS about others. My Father is GOD.. His streets.. are paved with GOD!

This is not my home.. I am so happy and blessed with what I have. When it gets worst? I am so blessed! He always supplies every need we have. How some FAITH preacher does says or lives.. what do I care? They are not my children nor do they answer to me. And God said.. they are not here to please man. I am not over them. And if I think they are error I go to them.. talk to them pray with them. As the word told me to. And I make sure as I just did the other day for this "GRACE ONLY " some say preacher. He said again about Jesus coming in the flesh died on the cross for the worlds sin. Was buried rose the 3rd day and is the only way to the Father. <---there is nothing that I know of that has more wright more power then that! Never once in all the HOURS yes hours I watched different services did he ever say "you can sin all you want". Never.. it was never ok.

So whats happening in the world .. I have for some strange reason have no fear. Seems I have great faith (not my words) yet if you knew me you WOULD say "is there ANYTHING he does no worry about?" God saying great faith yet.. years ago called me a worry wart <--someone that worries about nothing. Sharing here lol. Yet I have no fear today what so ever..not ITS GONE.. none. So much peace.

God loved this world He sent Christ.. He died already. He is not condemning the world. Satan comes to steal kill and destroy. WHY we always blame God 1st. As if Satan ALWAYS obeys God. You know there are fallen angels in chains because they would NOT Obey God. God will use this for His glory. And yes.. search as I did just yesterday read person after person being HEALED of this virus. Where you choose to focus is your free choice. I see all the gifts working.. I see JESUS in Baptist all the way to Word of Faith. I choose to see in them as CHRIST does in me.. the good 1st. If I see error I do for them what I pray others will do for me.. pray for me.. Don't toss me under the buss. :)

This is a GREAT DAY to be alive. In 2008 God turned me back around Saved but.. going my own way. Late 2008 He said "something evil is coming on the world. But before that something wonderful will happen. Watch and pray watch and pray watch and pray be ready" <---I KNOW what that might sound like. But I NEVER go there. He never said what it was so I don't ADD to what He told me. Your Father is a GOD the ONLY GOD! He is for you.. DON"T believe me.. you seek you pray you make sure its written. And then.. just simply like a child believe your Father can't lie. Song playing now.. old "Allies .. song in America" haha love it
 
Sep 3, 2016
4,791
428
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#27
Just a glimpse into the spiritual realm:

“8 Be sober (mentally self-controlled), be vigilant (awake and watchful); because your adversary the Devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour (we are faced with a very powerful adversary):”

The conference that is held in Heaven

Then Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by, on His right hand and on His left.

20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will persuade Ahab to go up, that he may fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ So one spoke in this manner, and another spoke in that manner.

21 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, and said, ‘I will persuade him.’

22 The Lord said to him, ‘In what way?’ So he said, ‘I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And the Lord said, ‘You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.’

23 Therefore look! The Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the Lord has declared disaster against you.” 1 Kings 22 NKJV


"JOB"

“12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only upon himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the Presence of the LORD. (There were limitations placed on what Satan could do, as there are with all Believers. Concerning this, Williams says: “Job does not symbolize an unconverted, but a converted, man. It was necessary that one of God’s children should be chosen for this trial; for the subject of the Book is not the conversion of the sinner, but the consecration of the Saint. It is evident that an unconverted man needs to be brought to the end of himself; but that a man who feared God, who was perfect, and who hated evil should also need this is not so clear.

“We find in this Book that God uses Satan, calamity, and sickness to be His instruments in creating character and making men partakers of His Holiness. Such were the instruments; but the Hand that used them was God’s; and the facts of this Book explain to Christian people, who, like Job, are conscious of personal integrity, why calamities, sorrows, and diseases are permitted to afflict them.”)”

JSM

.
“19 And he (Micaiah) said, Hear you therefore the Word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on His Throne, and all the Host of Heaven standing by Him on His right Hand and on His left (Micaiah is given a vision of the Throne of God and its happenings there, which he now relates to both Ahab and Jehoshaphat).

20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner (the meaning is that Ahab’s death in battle had been decreed in the counsels of God, and that the Divine Wisdom had devised means for accomplishing God’s purpose — Spence).

21 And there came forth a spirit (an evil spirit), and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. (We learn from this, as well as from Job, Chpt. 1, that spirits of darkness, as well as Satan, at times have access to the Throne of God. During the coming Great Tribulation, Satan and all such will be cast out of Heaven, allowed no more access [Rev. 12:7-9].)

22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He said, You shall persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. (This “lying spirit” would inspire these false prophets to prophesy the evil that was desired. All of this reveals that God and His Heavenly Hosts, including demons on certain occasions, have conferences concerning the affairs of men on Earth.

The idea is that God permitted such deception to take the place of the rejected truth. If men will not have the truth, they will automatically have a substitute that will be more in harmony with their wicked ways for the time being. Ahab would not have the truth, and would not listen to Jehovah, despite all the attempts made by the Lord to reach this man, but he would believe lies and listen to his false prophets.

“This Passage simply gives an insight into the spirit realm, showing that behind all human acts there are good and bad spirits seeking to carry out the respective wills of their masters. The Lord protects as long as He can and, when there is nothing else He can do to turn men from their wicked ways, error, and harm, at least by righteous means, He then permits demon spirits to deceive. This causes the individual in question to go further astray — and, in this case with Ahab, even unto death.)” 1 Kings 22 NKJV
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,801
703
113
#28
I think I dislike WOF people more than replacement theology people but I place both of them along with pedifiles.
 
Sep 3, 2016
4,791
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#29
I think I dislike WOF people more than replacement theology people but I place both of them along with pedifiles.
“LABOURERS NEEDED

36 But when He saw the multitudes, He was moved with compassion on them (had great pity and sympathy), because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd (no spiritual leadership).

37 Then said He unto His Disciples, The harvest (souls to be saved) truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few (not many Preachers of Righteousness);

38 Pray you (intercede) therefore the Lord of the Harvest (Christ is the Lord), that He will send forth labourers into His Harvest (the harvest of souls is His, and must be gathered in His way).” Matthew 9
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
15,728
1,064
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#30
I actually apluad those who have the kind of faith to proclaim something and believe in their hearts they will receive it the issue I think comes when firstly we mistake our own will with God's secondly when we think we will receive it right away when for all we know it may take 40 or so years our concept of time is not the same as his and also when we think medicine or going to the doctor violates the word of faith.

God never says how he will heal us and he is known for using others to do his work, if I was able to speak to all the nurses and doctors who went out of their way to help me when I had cancer I would express my deepest gratitude for all they did no matter how painful it was. Even now my eyes have been so damaged that I almost went completely blind and doctors wnet and are still going out of their way to try to save them even willing to pay out of their own pockets for my surgeries and they even went to the extremes to get me this 11,000 weekly eye drops that heals damaged nerves over time and it is working I would be a fool to not think God was up to something here.

I asked God to heal my eyes but he never said how he would do it
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
475
97
28
#31
The very end process of the soul leaving the body is only a God thing. God can permit it or miraculously intervene. A theistic God is exactly that. God can intervene at any moment if He so chooses. Just with Jonah. Jonah could of drowned. Yes Jonah jumped and God could of let him drown. But God didn't.
That is my point. However there is not intervention when your brains are blown out. People do it every day and unfortunately you can't ask for forgiveness if your brains are blown out. Which means saved or not the very last act a person did in their life was to commit a grievous sin against both their self and against God.
I can tell you from my own backslide that I wasted 22 years of my life with my back turned to God. If only I had not given up so soon there is no telling how much more I could have accomplished at the behest of God if I had devoted those 22 years to God instead of myself.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
4,419
1,582
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#32
That is my point. However there is not intervention when your brains are blown out. People do it every day and unfortunately you can't ask for forgiveness if your brains are blown out. Which means saved or not the very last act a person did in their life was to commit a grievous sin against both their self and against God.
I can tell you from my own backslide that I wasted 22 years of my life with my back turned to God. If only I had not given up so soon there is no telling how much more I could have accomplished at the behest of God if I had devoted those 22 years to God instead of myself.
What you mean. I have heard many suicide preventions due to something spiritual. Suicide as a sin can be debated because most suicides are committed from poor mental health.
 

Blain

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
15,728
1,064
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#33
What you mean. I have heard many suicide preventions due to something spiritual. Suicide as a sin can be debated because most suicides are committed from poor mental health.
According to the catholic church suicide is the greatest of sins and is a one way ticket to hell but I am no sold on the idea as like you said mental health appears to be a major factor in it.

I mean if a poor soul has had such a horrible life and has been brutally tortured mentally emotionally and physically they are more prone to end their own lives as they believe no one loves them or cares and the strain of the torture life can have is sometimes simply unbearable. God knows our hearts he knows our pain and anguish even I attempted suicide once and was terrified I would go to hell because of it but I was also not in good mental health severe depression and the belief that my family didn't love or care about me just drove me near the wall. This was only two weeks after I was saved and I was in tears begging God to please forgive me but luckily I was to much of a wimp to go through with it.

Now if I had gone through with it I don't know for sure if I would be hell bound or not but as for others I think God takes things into account before deciding a final destination
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,093
4,381
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#34
My bible says that Satan comes to steal and kill and destroy. Is Satan a angel?
Yes. A fallen angel. He rules over all the evil angels. And Hell (Gehenna, the Lake of Fire) was created for the devil and his angels.

Satan has indeed come to kill and destroy, and he uses evil men to accomplish his goals. There are evil men in control of countries like China, Russian, North Korea, Iran, Cuba, etc. There are also evil men and women in the United States government bound and determined to kill and destroy, as well as to bring Americans into bondage. Then there are feckless political leaders and politicians worldwide who stand by and allow evil men to triumph. No one is being prosecuted and put behind bars.

As to the Wuhan virus, it was apparently produced in a very special laboratory in Wuhan dedicated to biological weapons (germs and viruses). It seemingly escaped accidentally according to current US intelligence reports. But the Chinese government has still not put a ban on the *wet markets*, and the consumption of bats, dogs, and all kinds of filthy creatures, which carry the viruses and germs which have come from China over the years, and caused pandemics.

Is Satan behind all of this? Absolutely. The fact that Christians are severely persecuted in China confirms that Satan is in control over there. But he is also controlling the evil Democrats in the USA, who wish to see Trump killed or assassinated rather than see America survive. One evil woman sent out a message that she would pay someone to cough on the President and infect him with COVID-19! Imagine. And the evildoers are not being locked up.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
475
97
28
#35
What you mean. I have heard many suicide preventions due to something spiritual. Suicide as a sin can be debated because most suicides are committed from poor mental health.
I guess you haven't got a clue about the various reasons folks commit suicide. Suicide is a very selfish act. It is an act that is committed for very selfish reasons and it is done by folks who are only thinking of themselves. While it is true that folks who suffer from poor mental health commit suicide most of those who do suffer from poor mental heath don't commit suicide. The percentage is very small.
I know exactly what it is like to want to commit suicide. I was in the sitting position up against a tree with my toe in the trigger of a cocked 3030 rifle and the gun was laying on my nose and pointed at my forehead and just as you have spoken God intervened spiritually. That was a long time ago when I was very much younger and I had been saved at that point. I knew better then to kill myself at that point but an event happened that was the one of many and all I wanted to do was to relieve myself of the pain I was feeling. Some pain just doesn't go away when we want it to. But for what ever reason God doesn't always intervene and sometimes when God does try to intervene the person ignores God and commits the sin of self destruction anyways. Here are some examples of those who without question should have known better but destroyed themselves anyway.
A California megachurch pastor who frequently spoke out on the issues of mental health and his own struggles with depression died on Monday by suicide at the age of 30.
Jarrid Wilson joined the Harvest Christian Fellowship church in Riverside, Calif. 18 months ago as an associate pastor, according to a statement from the church. The church has a congregation of 15,000.
“He was vibrant, positive, and was always serving and helping others,” the statement said. “He wanted to especially help those who were dealing with suicidal thoughts.”
In a letter to members of his church on Saturday, The Purpose Driven Life author and evangelical pastor Rick Warren confirmed that his youngest son, Matthew, has committed suicide. 27-year-old Matthew was "kind, gentle, and compassionate," Warren wrote, adding that "in spite of America’s best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided. Today, after a fun evening together with Kay and me, in a momentary wave of despair at his home, he took his life.”

Authorities say a Florida pastor and popular Christian radio show host who was charged with raping a teenage girl appears to have killed himself.
Altamonte Springs police spokeswoman Michelle Sosa tells the Orlando Sentinel that the Reverand Bryan Fulwider was found dead in his home Sunday night.
The Medical Examiner's Office for Seminole County ruled the death a suicide.
Fulwider had been free on a $700,000 bond.

Words seem inadequate to capture the mood among many Christians in the aftermath of a recent string of suicides involving high profile pastors of megachurches this year. It seems like an epidemic. There was Jim Howard of the 6,000-member Real Life Church back in the beginning of the year, on January 23rd. Then we were shocked once more on August 25th when popular lead pastor of Inland Hills Church, Andrew Stoecklein (age 30), died by suicide.

So did God intervene or try to intervene to keep these Pastors from committing suicide?? Only God knows the answer to that question. If God did try to intervene and those pastors ignored God's efforts the question is, "How could they possibly have ignored God after being blessed by God? They weren't thinking of their family, their children, their congregation and most of all they weren't thinking of Christ. They were only thinking of themselves. However the one thing I do know is that they knew better then to take their own life.
In all of the Bible there were prophets who were lonely, suffered from depression and other mental health issues but none of them ever committed suicide because they knew better, they weren't selfish and they didn't have the kinds of treatments and drugs we have today. That fact alone just confirms to me that there is not a real excuse for committing suicide unless you were born without the ability to know better and even then God can intervene.
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
3,801
703
113
#36
Conde
I guess you haven't got a clue about the various reasons folks commit suicide. Suicide is a very selfish act. It is an act that is committed for very selfish reasons and it is done by folks who are only thinking of themselves. While it is true that folks who suffer from poor mental health commit suicide most of those who do suffer from poor mental heath don't commit suicide. The percentage is very small.
I know exactly what it is like to want to commit suicide. I was in the sitting position up against a tree with my toe in the trigger of a cocked 3030 rifle and the gun was laying on my nose and pointed at my forehead and just as you have spoken God intervened spiritually. That was a long time ago when I was very much younger and I had been saved at that point. I knew better then to kill myself at that point but an event happened that was the one of many and all I wanted to do was to relieve myself of the pain I was feeling. Some pain just doesn't go away when we want it to. But for what ever reason God doesn't always intervene and sometimes when God does try to intervene the person ignores God and commits the sin of self destruction anyways. Here are some examples of those who without question should have known better but destroyed themselves anyway.
A California megachurch pastor who frequently spoke out on the issues of mental health and his own struggles with depression died on Monday by suicide at the age of 30.
Jarrid Wilson joined the Harvest Christian Fellowship church in Riverside, Calif. 18 months ago as an associate pastor, according to a statement from the church. The church has a congregation of 15,000.
“He was vibrant, positive, and was always serving and helping others,” the statement said. “He wanted to especially help those who were dealing with suicidal thoughts.”
In a letter to members of his church on Saturday, The Purpose Driven Life author and evangelical pastor Rick Warren confirmed that his youngest son, Matthew, has committed suicide. 27-year-old Matthew was "kind, gentle, and compassionate," Warren wrote, adding that "in spite of America’s best doctors, meds, counselors, and prayers for healing, the torture of mental illness never subsided. Today, after a fun evening together with Kay and me, in a momentary wave of despair at his home, he took his life.”

Authorities say a Florida pastor and popular Christian radio show host who was charged with raping a teenage girl appears to have killed himself.
Altamonte Springs police spokeswoman Michelle Sosa tells the Orlando Sentinel that the Reverand Bryan Fulwider was found dead in his home Sunday night.
The Medical Examiner's Office for Seminole County ruled the death a suicide.
Fulwider had been free on a $700,000 bond.

Words seem inadequate to capture the mood among many Christians in the aftermath of a recent string of suicides involving high profile pastors of megachurches this year. It seems like an epidemic. There was Jim Howard of the 6,000-member Real Life Church back in the beginning of the year, on January 23rd. Then we were shocked once more on August 25th when popular lead pastor of Inland Hills Church, Andrew Stoecklein (age 30), died by suicide.

So did God intervene or try to intervene to keep these Pastors from committing suicide?? Only God knows the answer to that question. If God did try to intervene and those pastors ignored God's efforts the question is, "How could they possibly have ignored God after being blessed by God? They weren't thinking of their family, their children, their congregation and most of all they weren't thinking of Christ. They were only thinking of themselves. However the one thing I do know is that they knew better then to take their own life.
In all of the Bible there were prophets who were lonely, suffered from depression and other mental health issues but none of them ever committed suicide because they knew better, they weren't selfish and they didn't have the kinds of treatments and drugs we have today. That fact alone just confirms to me that there is not a real excuse for committing suicide unless you were born without the ability to know better and even then God can intervene.
Condemnation comes in many forms and the adversary is crafty in many ways. Mental health issues, pride issues, sin issues are just to name a few.
Now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus praise God. But let us be reminded that we all are broken people and to judge one as selfish and weak only adds to the pain.
We ourselves are made up of the same dirt so we should ask the Lord to keep us from the hour of temptation.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
17,146
3,765
113
#37
On my first time to Europe, one of my stops, my final that trip, was Amsterdam. I was most education travelling and learning of other countries, and although I wa truly enjoying ever moment of this holiday, something strange occurred.

I was in my hotel room, when suddenly I was overcome by a shockwave going through me followed by overwhelming sadness. My first thought after recovering and being able to stand, for I had fallen on my bed unable to move for a time, was to go to the airport, Schipool, and head home, buit I though this travel has been so educational and enoyable, I fought the impulse and stayed overnight.

The following day at the airport I was being paged. Going to the service desk I was given a number to call. I called, and it was my Canadian uncle in Montreal wh w wasted not time informing memy father had died, the day previous in a traffic accident. I then knew why the overwhelming sadness had overcome my very being.

The following day I called my brother from Chicago where I lived at the time. I was informed of something that explained the awful shockwave that permeated my body and being in Amsterday. Mybrother informed me thaqt my father had shot himself. Of course it was ruled suicide,. It was like hearing of his death for the very first time.

I was comforted by our Fathwer when I asked why? Also I was comforted about suicide for my Dad anyways. I cannot speak for al, but I remember what the Lord Showed me. He showed me the ver saying He will in n o ise turn away a broken heart. I felt my Father's broken heart when the occurance happend in that hotel room

Do not tell me nor anyone else whena loved one is so broken hearted he or she resorts to stopping the pain with suicide. I know better.

May God always bless and comfort all families who have suffered a loved-ones loss by his or her own hand..............only God knows the hearts of people and often He reveals what is in the heart of another in order for him or her to understand and praise God for that gift........
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
10,181
2,394
113
#38
James 4:2-5
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?


I think this is telling us, like Blain pointed out, we have to be careful to not mistake our will for Gods Will.
 

Dave-L

Well-known member
Jan 17, 2020
4,638
709
113
#39
James 4:2-5
2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?


I think this is telling us, like Blain pointed out, we have to be careful to not mistake our will for Gods Will.
The beauty in recognizing the difference between flesh faith and Holy Spirit faith is that God gives us faith when our prayers are on target. And he withholds it when they are not. Our flesh faith, on the other hand, is a positive mindset that we force upon ourselves thinking if present, it obligates God to fulfill his word, which we obviously do not understand.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,210
1,343
113
#40
The beauty in recognizing the difference between flesh faith and Holy Spirit faith is that God gives us faith when our prayers are on target. And he withholds it when they are not. Our flesh faith, on the other hand, is a positive mindset that we force upon ourselves thinking if present, it obligates God to fulfill his word, which we obviously do not understand.

I would say no such thing as "flesh faith". The two words oppose each other. The bible uses the term "no faith" none ,not little. little is reserved for the believer who does have faith .