The works of the law of righteousness vs works by faith to justification
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The Holy Spirit is our Helper, He will show us God's laws.
Pretty simple really. Love God and Love others as ourself. Upon these TWO laws, ALL the other laws hinge/hang emanate from being. This is to say there is great power in the Holy Spirit, for God is Love, His Spirit is Love, and, His Spirit is in us, who comforts us, advocates things to us, helps us, and , is our understanding of ALL His ways for us in our lives.
So, the works of the law of righteousness are just that, laws that make us right with God, we are right with God by obeying His voice, listening to His Word, following His commandments set before us, and, we do that how? By works of faith
Pretty simple really. Love God and Love others as ourself. Upon these TWO laws, ALL the other laws hinge/hang emanate from being. This is to say there is great power in the Holy Spirit, for God is Love, His Spirit is Love, and, His Spirit is in us, who comforts us, advocates things to us, helps us, and , is our understanding of ALL His ways for us in our lives.
So, the works of the law of righteousness are just that, laws that make us right with God, we are right with God by obeying His voice, listening to His Word, following His commandments set before us, and, we do that how? By works of faith
E
Where do you get this? those sacrifical laws NEVER took away sin. The author of hebrews is clear about this. No one was ever saved by going to a jewish priest for animal sacrifice.. and no one will ever be saved by him sacrificing an animal.
So he only gave it to the jews? No gentile was saved in the OT age of Israel, and non are saved today, And God only gave it to them?? Where is this found?
So he only gave it to the jews? No gentile was saved in the OT age of Israel, and non are saved today, And God only gave it to them?? Where is this found?
I believe I have the title of the thread correct, sir. What you have pointed out, is just more specific.
Rom_1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom_3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom_5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
These are just a few of the many scripture verses that declare our justification through faith in the work of the cross of Jesus. Yes, we who are born again are justified by the blood of Jesus, but that is for those who believe or have faith in God. The blood is worthless or dead to them that don't believe, even as the faith of God is worthless or dead without corresponding action. When you believe or have faith in God to do what He said He would do, your actions, deeds, or works will line up with your faith. You will walk accordingly. Those who don't truly believe will waiver or question if it is God's will or not, and will be tossed about, like the waves of the sea, until they fall away from believing, because they failed to walk by faith but rather walked by sight, feelings, voices, thoughts,...etc. The word of God is sure, and God is faithful who promised.
G
Exactly. Peace, homebro
You, at least, ohozne, got the 'ritual' right, that is, when you put it with 'spiritual,' God WORKS through our spirit which is His spirit in us, for God is Spirit, and, He is the Holy Spirit. What sense does grace make if it's not justified through faith ?
Do we just accept Christ and we are Holy? Scripture says, 'Be ye holy as I am holy,' but, what does that really mean, ohzone?
Yes, forgiveness of sins, they have been done to us, OUR sins, all of them, are covered by the blood of the Lamb, past, present, future, but, there's more to the story after that, milady. And , that story, largely, is one of God's chosen, Paul, speaking of grace, through faith, for salvation. Grace=passive . Faith=active. The two coalesce into God's way for our life of being saved.
Note: I am not judging you, though you just DID judge another in Christ, or, I am not judging anyone else for that matter, ohzone, just speaking truth, the Lord will reveal it to you, as you listen to His spirit speaking to yours, you must HEAR His voice, and, then you will not judge other Christians of being "false teachers" and "Judaizers." You will learn to speak in Love. Takes time, I know, I know, and, this, milady, is that time , divine appointments, ah-oh, yes, zone, the Lord leads
But chew through all that's been said above and give me your thoughts so we can continue. Grace alone does NOT save us, the works of the laws of righteousness are matters of the heart, and, we go forth in faith of Him to understand His way for us. There can be NO other way, ohzone. None.
So, all those words you fit together, ohzone. Where is the 'faith' in all that said by you? Grace. Holiness. Forgiveness. Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree. God's Word is clear, those are VERY important. Hope, you forgot to mention 'hope,' and, 'love,' you forgot to see the gift of the Spirit, greatest of all gifts He's given us, is 'Love.'
God wants you to accept others for who they are, and, if they don't see eye to eye on some issues as you, this does NOT make them a false teacher, it merely makes them in disagreement with your 'holier than thou' doctrine.
Holier than thou, green? Holier than thou ! You are degrading their ways of being revealed truth of Him and so Israel is not what you think, what you read, the Lord leads, it's for you to provide your points, not for you to degrade their points.
We've been through all this before, ohzone, I'm only more than happy to go through it all with you again, by His grace, I hope and pray, I say this so that it's rewarding for you and glory to God . Amen.
You, at least, ohozne, got the 'ritual' right, that is, when you put it with 'spiritual,'
God WORKS through our spirit which is His spirit in us, for God is Spirit, and, He is the Holy Spirit. What sense does grace make if it's not justified through faith ? Do we just accept Christ and we are Holy? Scripture says, 'Be ye holy as I am holy,' but, what does that really mean, ohzone?
Yes, forgiveness of sins, they have been done to us, OUR sins, all of them, are covered by the blood of the Lamb, past, present, future, but, there's more to the story after that, milady. And , that story, largely, is one of God's chosen, Paul, speaking of grace, through faith, for salvation. Grace=passive . Faith=active. The two coalesce into God's way for our life of being saved.
Note: I am not judging you, though you just DID judge another in Christ, or, I am not judging anyone else for that matter, ohzone, just speaking truth, the Lord will reveal it to you, as you listen to His spirit speaking to yours, you must HEAR His voice, and, then you will not judge other Christians of being "false teachers" and "Judaizers." You will learn to speak in Love. Takes time, I know, I know, and, this, milady, is that time , divine appointments, ah-oh, yes, zone, the Lord leads
But chew through all that's been said above and give me your thoughts so we can continue. Grace alone does NOT save us, the works of the laws of righteousness are matters of the heart, and, we go forth in faith of Him to understand His way for us. There can be NO other way, ohzone. None.
So, all those words you fit together, ohzone. Where is the 'faith' in all that said by you?
Grace. Holiness. Forgiveness. Yes. Yes. Yes. I agree. God's Word is clear, those are VERY important. Hope, you forgot to mention 'hope,' and, 'love,' you forgot to see the gift of the Spirit, greatest of all gifts He's given us, is 'Love.' God wants you to accept others for who they are, and, if they don't see eye to eye on some issues as you, this does NOT make them a false teacher, it merely makes them in disagreement with your 'holier than thou' doctrine.
Holier than thou, green? Holier than thou ! You are degrading their ways of being revealed truth of Him and so Israel is not what you think, what you read, the Lord leads, it's for you to provide your points, not for you to degrade their points.
We've been through all this before, ohzone, I'm only more than happy to go through it all with you again, by His grace, I hope and pray, I say this so that it's rewarding for you and glory to God . Amen.
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Yep, you stopped short.
Your logic and $1.89 will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds. I posted this before, read what it says...
Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Sacrifices were not instructed, nor were they instituted at Mt. Sinai. This is the whole point of here a little and there a little. When one does not gather all the information on a subject, one comes up with faulty conclusions.
Well, no matter what you or I think, here is how it really happened...
God proposed (and this is the correct word) the Covenant here...
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And the response was...
Exo 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
The only problem with your last proposal is that the Law is from the Torah. This is the word used for Law in Jeremiah 31:33...
H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Now perhaps I do misunderstand. Maybe Torah really means whatever you wish it to be, but in reality, I doubt it. I have enough faith in God to believe that He inspired Jeremiah to write exactly what He wanted Jeremiah to write.
I don't believe any of this "Well it says this but really means that" MBFM.
Your logic and $1.89 will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds. I posted this before, read what it says...
Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Sacrifices were not instructed, nor were they instituted at Mt. Sinai. This is the whole point of here a little and there a little. When one does not gather all the information on a subject, one comes up with faulty conclusions.
Well, no matter what you or I think, here is how it really happened...
God proposed (and this is the correct word) the Covenant here...
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And the response was...
Exo 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
The only problem with your last proposal is that the Law is from the Torah. This is the word used for Law in Jeremiah 31:33...
H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Now perhaps I do misunderstand. Maybe Torah really means whatever you wish it to be, but in reality, I doubt it. I have enough faith in God to believe that He inspired Jeremiah to write exactly what He wanted Jeremiah to write.
I don't believe any of this "Well it says this but really means that" MBFM.
Well H, of course it is God through us. God is consistent. He doesn't change His mind every whipstitch. He started this creation with a seventh day Sabbath. He gave this Law on Sinai and put people to death for breaking it. Do you really believe that now He has changed His mind and said "Oops, let's go to another day?" Seems like that leaves a whole lot of people that were unfairly executed.
E
1. That law was given to Jews, Not gentiles. Even gentiles who were saved in the OT. Not saying we should not follow it, we should. But the law Given to Isreal served a purpose. No one was saved by following part or all of those laws.
2. Can anyone name all the people who have been put down by God the last 2000 years for breaking the sabaath or other laws??
2. Can anyone name all the people who have been put down by God the last 2000 years for breaking the sabaath or other laws??
A
this happened in Sinai as part of the covenant. it is written in the TORAH. even if the people did not obey until later does not mean GOD did not command it as part as His covenant with Israel on Mount Sinai.
God's words speaks for themselves. If people want to continue to twist it, its their choice.
Exodus 20
[h=3][/h][SUP]22 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘You have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. [SUP]23 [/SUP]You shall not make anything to be with Me—gods of silver or gods of gold you shall not make for yourselves. [SUP]24 [/SUP]An altar of earth you shall make for Me, and you shall sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen
God's words speaks for themselves. If people want to continue to twist it, its their choice.
Exodus 20
[h=3][/h][SUP]22 [/SUP]Then the Lord said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘You have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. [SUP]23 [/SUP]You shall not make anything to be with Me—gods of silver or gods of gold you shall not make for yourselves. [SUP]24 [/SUP]An altar of earth you shall make for Me, and you shall sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen
No problem, I don't expect many people to agree with me.
I didn't say that the commandments were bad, just that it doesn't require faith in God when He says something like, 'thou shalt
not kill, commit adultery, steal,...etc.'
If following the commandments of God leads people to Christ, then all the Jews would have been the first to jump on the band wagon, not just a few. The law simply shows us that we were sinners before we came to Christ and that we fall short of God's standards.
I didn't say that the commandments were bad, just that it doesn't require faith in God when He says something like, 'thou shalt
not kill, commit adultery, steal,...etc.'
If following the commandments of God leads people to Christ, then all the Jews would have been the first to jump on the band wagon, not just a few. The law simply shows us that we were sinners before we came to Christ and that we fall short of God's standards.
The scripture above is not talking about eternal damnation, it's about physical death. If you follow the scripture in the context in which it was written, you will see that Paul does not alternate from the physical to the spiritual, or from temporal to eternal. Take a look at the end of Solomon's life. Did he go into everlasting punishment for all his disobedience at the end of his life? No, the above scripture has to do with physical or natural punishment, not eternal damnation.
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Again, the above verses has to do with physical punishment, not eternal damnation. Notice who is going to be the one to punish or send a tormentor/torturer on the disobedient person. It will be God the Father.
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Again, the above verses has to do with physical punishment, not eternal damnation. Notice who is going to be the one to punish or send a tormentor/torturer on the disobedient person. It will be God the Father.