The written word: Could we survive as Christians without it?

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PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#1
Is our relationship with Christ ,through the Holy Spirit ,strong enough to survive if we (like some in this world) were never privilege to have the written word ?

We are always hearing about some individuals interpretation of the scriptures and what they believe it to be. One says one thing another says another.
I myself are one of these individuals .

The only solution to the problem some time it seems is to take away the written word all together.
Make us depend on our day to day conversations with the Holy Spirit. Could we make any progress into the Kingdom of God in this situation ?
Do we have this kind of relationship with Jesus Christ (myself included) to survive?

Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why ,where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
31,370
9,497
113
#2
Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why ,where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
Mormons teach that the resurrected Christ visited Natives in America, presumably Central or South America, but there is little if no archeological evidence to support this claim, while archeological evidence in support of Biblical claims continue to accumulate and provide accurate evidence for Biblical claims.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,982
476
83
#3
Is our relationship with Christ ,through the Holy Spirit ,strong enough to survive if we (like some in this world) were never privilege to have the written word ?

We are always hearing about some individuals interpretation of the scriptures and what they believe it to be. One says one thing another says another.
I myself are one of these individuals .

The only solution to the problem some time it seems is to take away the written word all together.
Make us depend on our day to day conversations with the Holy Spirit. Could we make any progress into the Kingdom of God in this situation ?
Do we have this kind of relationship with Jesus Christ (myself included) to survive?

Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why ,where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
Because they were born again and had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I made this analogy a couple of years ago on this forum and was harshly ridiculed and made fun of by most of the forum. When Paul was converted on the road to Damascus and struck blind. Paul, in Gal 1:17, says that he went not up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles but went into Arabia for three years, in which time he was taught by the Holly Spirit within him, just as were the early native Americans.
 

PERFECTION

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
222
63
28
#4
Mormons teach that the resurrected Christ visited Natives in America, presumably Central or South America, but there is little if no archeological evidence to support this claim, while archeological evidence in support of Biblical claims continue to accumulate and provide accurate evidence for Biblical claims.
In my opinion what spiritual revelations were imparted to anyone anywhere in the world had nothing to with the mormons.
I know you were not implying they did .Nevertheless this mormonism is a force we must continue to battle. This is just part of the anti- Christ we face every day. Mormons like so many other false religions try to lure the unsuspecting individuals in with the idealism of Im ok and your ok.
If you do not like the Mormon doctrine ,just wait a minute they will change it to suit you.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,802
1,897
113
63
#5
Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why, where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
Because they were born again and had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. I made this analogy a couple of years ago on this forum and was harshly ridiculed and made fun of by most of the forum. When Paul was converted on the road to Damascus and struck blind. Paul, in Gal 1:17, says that he went not up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles but went into Arabia for three years, in which time he was taught by the Holy Spirit within him, just as were the early native Americans.
Hi PERFECTION/ForestGreenCook, early European explorers describe individual native American tribes, and even small bands, as each having their own religious practices. Their various theologies may be monotheistic, polytheistic, henotheistic, animistic, shamanistic, pantheistic or any combination thereof, among others. ~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_religion

If the Holy Spirit (the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) taught the early native Americans the truth about Himself, why do we such great diversity of beliefs from tribe to tribe (unlike we do among the tribes of Israel)? More importantly, if YHWH taught the early native Americans about Himself and Messiah, why is there no evidence that He did so :unsure:

Concerning the ~general~ revelation of God, here are a few passages to consider:

Psalm 19
1 THE heavens are telling of the glory of God;
And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
2 Day to day pours forth speech,
And night to night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech, nor are there words;
Their voice is not heard.
Romans 1
18 The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Romans 2
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,
15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.
16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

~Deut
p.s - it's my understanding that for Paul to officially be the "Apostle" Paul means that he was both called and taught by Jesus Himself. Does not Scripture seem to bear this fact out :unsure: I also wonder if Pharisee Saul's familiarity with and understanding of the OT was not at least part of the reason that the Lord called him into His service? (I remember reading that a number of Pharisees committed the entire OT to memory)

Galatians 1
11 I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former manner of life in Judaism, how I used to persecute the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it;
14 and I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries among my countrymen, being more extremely zealous for my ancestral traditions.
15 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased
16 to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus.
.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,655
1,882
113
#6
We are always hearing about some individuals interpretation of the scriptures and what they believe it to be. One says one thing another says another.

The only solution to the problem some time it seems is to take away the written word all together.
Make us depend on our day to day conversations with the Holy Spirit. Could we make any progress into the Kingdom of God in this situation ?
Do we have this kind of relationship with Jesus Christ (myself included) to survive?

Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why ,where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
You probably, at least now and then, eat something you shouldn't, and make a mistake with your eating.

Well, if you have any mistakes in your eating habits, the only solution, OBVIOUSLY, is to take away all your food.

Oh, and if you ever have any driving errors, we should take away your car.

Oh, and if you ever have problems with your wife, we should take away your wife.


I agree with you completely.
If you have a problem with a thing, or make any mistakes with a thing, you should just GET RID OF THAT THING.

.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,982
476
83
#7
Hi PERFECTION/ForestGreenCook, early European explorers describe individual native American tribes, and even small bands, as each having their own religious practices. Their various theologies may be monotheistic, polytheistic, henotheistic, animistic, shamanistic, pantheistic or any combination thereof, among others. ~https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_religion

If the Holy Spirit (the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) taught the early native Americans the truth about Himself, why do we such great diversity of beliefs from tribe to tribe (unlike we do among the tribes of Israel)? More importantly, if YHWH taught the early native Americans about Himself and Messiah, why is there no evidence that He did so :unsure:

Concerning the ~general~ revelation of God, here are a few passages to consider:

Psalm 19
1 THE heavens are telling of the glory of God;
And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
2 Day to day pours forth speech,
And night to night reveals knowledge.
3 There is no speech, nor are there words;
Their voice is not heard.
Romans 1
18 The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Romans 2
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.
14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,
15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.
16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

~Deut
p.s - it's my understanding that for Paul to officially be the "Apostle" Paul means that he was both called and taught by Jesus Himself. Does not Scripture seem to bear this fact out :unsure: I also wonder if Pharisee Saul's familiarity with and understanding of the OT was not at least part of the reason that the Lord called him into His service? (I remember reading that a number of Pharisees committed the entire OT to memory)

Galatians 1
11 I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
13 For you have heard of my former manner of life in Judaism, how I used to persecute the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it;
14 and I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries among my countrymen, being more extremely zealous for my ancestral traditions.
15 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, was pleased
16 to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,
17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went away to Arabia, and returned once more to Damascus.
.
1 Cor 2, explains the difference in the spiritual man and the natural man. The natural man, void of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, cannot look upon the creation of God and give credit to God, as can the spiritual man. The natural man only worships mans intelligence in understanding the so called evolution of things. Even the spiritual man that has been born again and has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can only understand as much as the Holy Spirit reveals to him. Beware, the child of God who is trusting in his own intelligence to understand the truth of Jesus's doctrine, he will never understand it. We shall know them by their fruits (fruits of the Spirit, Gal 5:22) as witnessed in the history of the early American Indian. If part of the reason that God called Paul into his service was that he was a scholar of the old law, why did Paul say that he counted it all as dung? I used to question God as to why he does or does not do certain things, but have come to the conclusion that I know very little in that area.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,982
476
83
#8
You probably, at least now and then, eat something you shouldn't, and make a mistake with your eating.

Well, if you have any mistakes in your eating habits, the only solution, OBVIOUSLY, is to take away all your food.

Oh, and if you ever have any driving errors, we should take away your car.

Oh, and if you ever have problems with your wife, we should take away your wife.


I agree with you completely.
If you have a problem with a thing, or make any mistakes with a thing, you should just GET RID OF THAT THING.

.
The written word is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, notice, it did not say it was profitable for obtaining eternal life. Your analogies do not fit Perfection's statement.
 

Gregoryp

Well-known member
Jul 20, 2019
1,101
772
113
#9
Is our relationship with Christ ,through the Holy Spirit ,strong enough to survive if we (like some in this world) were never privilege to have the written word ?

We are always hearing about some individuals interpretation of the scriptures and what they believe it to be. One says one thing another says another.
I myself are one of these individuals .

The only solution to the problem some time it seems is to take away the written word all together.
Make us depend on our day to day conversations with the Holy Spirit. Could we make any progress into the Kingdom of God in this situation ?
Do we have this kind of relationship with Jesus Christ (myself included) to survive?

Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why ,where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
This is where I am at. No involvement with organised religion at all. I pray and talk to Jesus, the Holy Spirit guides me to what scripture to read and he shares his wisdom and counsel with me. Its the only way I believe to get the strength and wisdom of a true believer. You You don't need to remove the written word , you need to stop listening to false teachers, television evangelists and youtube prophets The enemy will use these people to deceive, confuse and divide the christian community. We need to lean on Jesus for our guidance and learning, not mankind with his circus acts disguised as spiritual learning.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,913
9,917
113
65
Florida
#10
The written word is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, notice, it did not say it was profitable for obtaining eternal life. Your analogies do not fit Perfection's statement.
I believe that maxwel is an expert in the use of sarcasm.
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
#11
Is our relationship with Christ ,through the Holy Spirit ,strong enough to survive if we (like some in this world) were never privilege to have the written word ?

We are always hearing about some individuals interpretation of the scriptures and what they believe it to be. One says one thing another says another.
I myself are one of these individuals .

The only solution to the problem some time it seems is to take away the written word all together.
Make us depend on our day to day conversations with the Holy Spirit. Could we make any progress into the Kingdom of God in this situation ?
Do we have this kind of relationship with Jesus Christ (myself included) to survive?

Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why ,where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
God gave us the Word for a purpose---
That we may know Him.

The problem is not the Word, but the individual.
Improper study, personal interpretation, false teachers leads to error and confusion.

To follow the Holy Spirit is necessary, but what we believe as the Holy Spirit leadership must be proven with the Word.
We are told to "test the spirits".

NEVER tell people to not study the Word or we do not need the Word.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#12
Is our relationship with Christ ,through the Holy Spirit ,strong enough to survive if we (like some in this world) were never privilege to have the written word ?

We are always hearing about some individuals interpretation of the scriptures and what they believe it to be. One says one thing another says another.
I myself are one of these individuals .

The only solution to the problem some time it seems is to take away the written word all together.
Make us depend on our day to day conversations with the Holy Spirit. Could we make any progress into the Kingdom of God in this situation ?
Do we have this kind of relationship with Jesus Christ (myself included) to survive?

Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why ,where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
Afterlife: In general, Native religions have no precise belief about life after death. Some believe in reincarnation, with a person being reborn either as a human or animal after death. Others believe that humans return as ghosts, or that people go to an other world. Others believe that nothing definitely can be known about one's fate after this life. Combinations of belief are common. http://www.religioustolerance.org/nataspir3.htm
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#13
The written word is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, notice, it did not say it was profitable for obtaining eternal life. Your analogies do not fit Perfection's statement.
Acts 17:11 The people in Berea were much nicer than those in Thessalonica, and they gladly accepted the message. Day after day they studied the Scriptures to see if these things were true.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,994
5,036
113
#14
Is our relationship with Christ ,through the Holy Spirit ,strong enough to survive if we (like some in this world) were never privilege to have the written word ?
It is never a good idea to present hypotheticals. (And as a matter of fact, today absolutely no one has an excuse for being unable to access the Bible in their language on the Internet at no cost.)

The truth is that the written Word of God IS the revelation of Jesus Christ -- the record which God has given to us of His Son from Genesis to Revelation.

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself... And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, (Luke 24:27,44,45).

The personal relationship comes after obedience to the Gospel. And that exists even if the Bible is not available.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,899
8,510
113
#15
Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why ,where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
you mean like the Incans, Toltecs, Olmecs & Aztecs? who sacrificed humans to the sky spirit that they worshiped? or the Babylonians who worshiped the planets or the Greeks & Egyptians and countless other pagan peoples who worshiped the sun?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
27,899
8,510
113
#16
Acts 17:11 The people in Berea were much nicer than those in Thessalonica, and they gladly accepted the message. Day after day they studied the Scriptures to see if these things were true.
when did "nice" become a synonym for "noble" ??

o_O
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,863
1,410
113
#17
i think we could survive yes. because most believers of all time did survive with it. its a modern invention the bible. only since reformation did it become more popular to own one and in own language too

before that nobody had the entire bible or didnt have it in native tongue at all. thats the truth.

oh and add to that: most people couldnt even read at some points
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,588
518
113
#18
Is our relationship with Christ ,through the Holy Spirit ,strong enough to survive if we (like some in this world) were never privilege to have the written word ?

We are always hearing about some individuals interpretation of the scriptures and what they believe it to be. One says one thing another says another.
I myself are one of these individuals .

The only solution to the problem some time it seems is to take away the written word all together.
Make us depend on our day to day conversations with the Holy Spirit. Could we make any progress into the Kingdom of God in this situation ?
Do we have this kind of relationship with Jesus Christ (myself included) to survive?

Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why ,where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
The Bible says creation testifies of a higher power, and of His attributes, which one of them is love, for He provided food, and the means to make clothing, and shelter, so the world is without excuse if they do not go by the 2 greatest commandments love God, and love people.

So people without the word of God can come to the truth of a God by creation which is how they operated in the past until the theory of evolution came out.

The kingdoms on earth, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Roman Empire, all believed in a higher power.

But the theory of evolution changed that so the next kingdom to come, the ten horn kingdom, the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section will start to go away from God with the unified religious system claiming the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process which they believe people are still evolving.

Which will lead the world to the New Age Christ and they rebel against the truth trying to get rid of all people that do not go along with them, and then God will put them down.

Native Americans believed in the great spirit in the sky because creation testifies of a higher power, and they believed this before the theory of evolution as many nations did.

But the theory of evolution will change the course of the world until they rebel against God, and then He will put them down.

How can we have a relationship with Christ by the Spirit without the written word of God, for how would we know about Christ, and whether there is a Holy Spirit without the written word of God.

Without the word of God would a person say, hey I think I will have a relationship with a person named Jesus by the Holy Spirit without any information concerning them.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,553
2,214
113
www.christiancourier.com
#19
Yes.
The Saint Apostle Paul said all of nature is testament to the presence and power of God so that none can make an excuse they never knew God.
God predated the written word. He's part of all of his creation. We never really are separated from God. It would be like saying a newborn child can be separated from their parents. When that child is created of and from their parents.

As the word tells us, we are a temple of the most high.
Always. :)
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
26,531
3,717
113
#20
Is our relationship with Christ ,through the Holy Spirit ,strong enough to survive if we (like some in this world) were never privilege to have the written word ?

We are always hearing about some individuals interpretation of the scriptures and what they believe it to be. One says one thing another says another.
I myself are one of these individuals .

The only solution to the problem some time it seems is to take away the written word all together.
Make us depend on our day to day conversations with the Holy Spirit. Could we make any progress into the Kingdom of God in this situation ?
Do we have this kind of relationship with Jesus Christ (myself included) to survive?

Native Americans for generations were drawn to the great spirit in the sky. Why ,where did they come up with the idea of a great spirit in the sky?
2 Timothy, Chapter 3:

14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


2 Timothy, Chapter 2:
15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.


Revelation, Chapter 22:

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.