There will be no Rapture!!!

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Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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You do realize Moses and Elijah represented the Law and the Prophets at the Transfiguration and Jesus is the fulfillment of both.

Of course you don't.
The Tribulation will be a continuation , and the last seven years, of the "Jewish age."
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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What happens if you do not have salvation and end up in Hell?
God's Wrath for Eternity.
Even YOU agree that God's "WRATH" will be expressed (UPON THE EARTH) DURING some portion of the Trib yrs, so don't be hypocritical by saying:
You don't even present logic with your viewpoints.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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You should study the 8 verses about the Councils of God and ALL Angels [Fallen included] are allowed.

One Council God sent a Lying spirit to deceive a king to his death.

Job 1 is a Council Meeting.

Satan no longer is able to live there.
Regardless, the war in heaven of Rev 12 does take place.....in heaven.

I take it that Satan was cast from the exclusive environment of the throne room of God (where there are presently UNFALLEN Cherubim around the throne). And of course Satan lost his exalted position and assigned role.

But Satan MUST have had some access to heaven, as he was selling his lies to the YET UNFALLEN heavenly host.
I take it that he was coming to them, not vice versa.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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You need to conjure up an alternative to what the Bible clearly indicates as a seven (360 days * 7) year time of tribulation.
And a 1260 day time of Jacobs trouble.
1260 day time you say?

3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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Regardless, the war in heaven of Rev 12 does take place.....in heaven.

I take it that Satan was cast from the exclusive environment of the throne room of God (where there are presently UNFALLEN Cherubim around the throne). And of course Satan lost his exalted position and assigned role.

But Satan MUST have had some access to heaven, as he was selling his lies to the YET UNFALLEN heavenly host.
I take it that he was coming to them, not vice versa.
The War already happened.

Satan was booted and Jesus said it was like watching him fall like lightning
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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6 Now it fell upon a day, that the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Where is God's Throne at?
There are other passages referring to "before the Lord" (this phrase--these specific Hebrew words) where the persons were standing ON THE EARTH (in those contexts).

So there is NO REASON to suggest otherwise for THIS text.





On the other hand, show me a text where, "IN HEAVEN," ever "6 [There] became a day, when..."

I don't find one.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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There are other passages referring to "before the Lord" (this phrase--these specific Hebrew words) where the persons were standing ON THE EARTH (in those contexts).

So there is NO REASON to suggest otherwise for THIS text.





On the other hand, show me a text where, "IN HEAVEN," ever "6 [There] became a day, when..."

I don't find one.
All of the Angels presenting themselves before God is not happening ever on Earth. God's Throne is in Heaven. During the 1,000 year Reign it will then also be on Earth.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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There are other passages referring to "before the Lord" (this phrase--these specific Hebrew words) where the persons were standing ON THE EARTH (in those contexts).

So there is NO REASON to suggest otherwise for THIS text.





On the other hand, show me a text where, "IN HEAVEN," ever "6 [There] became a day, when..."

I don't find one.
I saw the LORD sitting on His throne, and all the host of heaven standing by Him on His right hand and on his left.

Show me where God's Throne has ever been on Earth before the 1,000 year Reign?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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All of the Angels presenting themselves before God is not happening ever on Earth.
The text states, "the sons of God came to present themselves BEFORE THE LORD, and Satan came also among them" (he stopped "going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it" to do so... meaning, he settled in Job's neighborhood [ONE LOCATION IN THE EARTH] for that time-slot and purpose).

God's Throne is in Heaven.
As it has always been. So?

Nowhere in the text does it state they were surrounding God's throne UP IN HEAVEN (you've added that "idea" into this text--Job1-2)

However, there ARE other texts stating that persons ON THE EARTH came to present before God... ;)

... if there WERE NO other texts stating such, THEN you might have a case.

But as it stands... you do not. = )


During the 1,000 year Reign it will then also be on Earth.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Nowhere in the text does it state they were surrounding God's throne UP IN HEAVEN (you've added that "idea" into this text--Job1-2)
The CONTEXT of Job 1-2 is distinct from the CONTEXT of 1Ki22:19/2Chr18:18. Try not to conflate them. ;)

However, there ARE other texts stating that persons ON THE EARTH came to present before God [/the Lord]... ;) [meaning, WHILE THEY REMAINED ON THE EARTH]


"There became a day, when..." (on the earth;) / earthly-located) [Job1:6 / 2:1]
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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The text states, "the sons of God came to present themselves BEFORE THE LORD, and Satan came also among them" (he stopped "going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it" to do so... meaning, he settled in Job's neighborhood [ONE LOCATION IN THE EARTH] for that time-slot and purpose).



As it has always been. So?

Nowhere in the text does it state they were surrounding God's throne UP IN HEAVEN (you've added that "idea" into this text--Job1-2)

However, there ARE other texts stating that persons ON THE EARTH came to present before God... ;)

... if there WERE NO other texts stating such, THEN you might have a case.

But as it stands... you do not. = )
Every example of the location of God's Throne has always been located in the Throne Room in Heaven. Nowhere has it ever been on Earth.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Every example of the location of God's Throne has always been located in the Throne Room in Heaven. Nowhere has it ever been on Earth.
TheDivineWatermark said:
However, there ARE other texts stating that persons ON THE EARTH came to present before God [/the Lord]... ;) [meaning, WHILE THEY REMAINED ON THE EARTH]


... and IN THOSE [OTHER] PASSAGES (referring to this ^ ) God's "THRONE" did NOT RELOCATE TO THE EARTH in order for those persons in those texts to present "before the Lord" (as they did!), AS YOU ARE SUGGESTING must be the case! NO!



So, why you are even suggesting this, is beyond me! ;)
 

FollowerofShiloh

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Jan 24, 2024
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TheDivineWatermark said:
However, there ARE other texts stating that persons ON THE EARTH came to present before God [/the Lord]... ;) [meaning, WHILE THEY REMAINED ON THE EARTH]


... and IN THOSE [OTHER] PASSAGES (referring to this ^ ) God's "THRONE" did NOT RELOCATE TO THE EARTH in order for those persons in those texts to present "before the Lord" AS YOU ARE SUGGESTING must be the case! NO!
Coming from Earth does not necessary mean they remained on Earth.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Coming from Earth does not necessary mean they remained on Earth.
You are not grasping what I am saying.


Other passages speak of HUMANS ON THE EARTH in the same way [/using the same wording] that Job 1:6 and 2:1 are worded (in the Hebrew).



Those humans on the earth did NOT relocate in order to present before the Lord;

NOR did God relocate His "throne" (to the earth) in order for them to present before the Lord.



They EACH REMAINED in their own distinctive realms, and yet the humans present before the Lord IN THOSE OTHER TEXTS (so why not in Job??)




IF there were NO OTHER passages speaking of this, then you would have a case; but there IS!



____________


In addition to that, I know of NO OTHER [biblical] instance, where it says (of Heaven) "There BECAME A DAY, when..."


Sure, Scripture speaks of specific dates and points of time ON THE EARTH (in relation to Heaven/God), but not UP THERE "There BECAME AND DAY, when...". If you can find a text saying such, then change my mind on that. = )
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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I only agree that God removes the Restrainer and then Satan's Wrath is unleashed.
Wait a sec... don't you believe the "7 Vials," of which it is stated, "for IN THEM the WRATH OF GOD is COMPLETED" takes place ON THE EARTH rather than "in hell" [/somewhere outside the realm of "earth"]??