There will be no Rapture!!!

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Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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where in scripture is there a pre trib rapture?
do you reject the 2 resurrections described in revelation and spoken of by the apostles?
do you reject the “short season” where satan deceived the world once again?

you probably worship the jews, children of esau, as well ; who are parading in Palestine currently huh? 🤦🏼‍♂️
How long have you been at this?

And, no one has yet has shown you?
I find that hard to believe.....

In the mean time..
I am an ignorant man.... Please show the two resurrections in Revelation you speak of..
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,191
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Midwest
May I ask you, what is your understanding of "the rapture happens on the last day"... "the last day" of what?
Great question! Referring to:
The rapture happens on the last day...
Almost there - add a couple of words = Great Grace Departure happens on the
last day "Of Grace", God Removing His ambassadors (Body Of Christ), Before
Declaring Judgment and War On an unbelieving world, eh?

Of course this is According To "The Revelation Of The Mystery" to Paul from
Christ In Heaven...
The White Throne Judgment is unto life, or second death.
That is the Last day of that which is
temporal and seen.
Actually, because God 'Sees' one day "as a thousand years", we then have the
'last day' of Israel's prophecy and covenants [ ... Given to the twelve By Christ,
on the earth ], and ending in:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was​
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded​
for the witness of Jesus, and for The Word of God, and which had not​
worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his​
mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;​
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years..."​
[ resurrected ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ at the beginning of the ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ Correct? ]​
"...But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years
were finished. This is the first resurrection. " (Revelation 20:4-5)​

Thus, in Summary, no 'wild speculation' necessary, just "Right
Division" of God's Two Different Contexts, eh?:

'last day' of earthly prophecy and covenants for 12 apostles and Israel

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

'last day' Of Heavenly Grace and Mystery to One apostle for The Body Of Christ

And, precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and
Edified In The Lord Jesus Christ, and In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
!

Amen.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,749
400
83
do you reject the “short season” where satan deceived the world once again?
This short season?

Revelation 20:7-10​
Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth,
Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of
the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the
saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured
them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone
where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night
forever and ever."

That short season?
 
Feb 10, 2024
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How long have you been at this?

And, no one has yet has shown you?
I find that hard to believe.....

In the mean time..
I am an ignorant man.... Please show the two resurrections in Revelation you speak of..
i posted this in an earlier post but since you would rather keep posting arrogant and ignorant responses, ill post this again for you

The first resurrection is mentioned in revelation 20

"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years"
Revelation 20:5-6


This first resurrection includes those who return to life as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 the "dead in Christ" and believers who are alive as well as the resurrected Christian martyrs from the end of the tribulation period mentioned in Revelation 20:4

The second resurrection consists of all unbelievers, to receive judgement and suffer the “second death”

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done."
Revelation 20:12,13

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:14,15

despite your arrogance and surety in your understanding i’m sure that i’m not showing you anything you wouldnt have read for yourself, however; i do respect each person to present interpretation because i can’t be certain of my own interpretation or idea of how these things take place outside of what the scripture says.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,749
400
83
i posted this in an earlier post but since you would rather keep posting arrogant and ignorant responses, ill post this again for you

The first resurrection is mentioned in revelation 20

"This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years"
Revelation 20:5-6


This first resurrection includes those who return to life as described in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 the "dead in Christ" and believers who are alive as well as the resurrected Christian martyrs from the end of the tribulation period mentioned in Revelation 20:4

The second resurrection consists of all unbelievers, to receive judgement and suffer the “second death”

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done."
Revelation 20:12,13

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
Revelation 20:14,15

despite your arrogance and surety in your understanding i’m sure that i’m not showing you anything you wouldnt have read for yourself, however; i do respect each person to present interpretation because i can’t be certain of my own interpretation or idea of how these things take place outside of what the scripture says.

First and Second Resurrections speaks of types of resurrections.

It does not have to mean sequential resurrections ..

God does not always think like we do..

"The first shall be last, and the last shall be first. "


.
 
Great question! Referring to:

Almost there - add a couple of words = Great Grace Departure happens on the
last day "Of Grace", God Removing His ambassadors (Body Of Christ), Before
Declaring Judgment and War On an unbelieving world, eh?

Of course this is According To "The Revelation Of The Mystery" to Paul from
Christ In Heaven...

Actually, because God 'Sees' one day "as a thousand years", we then have the
'last day' of Israel's prophecy and covenants [ ... Given to the twelve By Christ,
on the earth ], and ending in:

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was​
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded​
for the witness of Jesus, and for The Word of God, and which had not​
worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his​
mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;​
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years..."​
[ resurrected ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ at the beginning of the ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ Correct? ]​
"...But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years
were finished. This is the first resurrection. " (Revelation 20:4-5)​

Thus, in Summary, no 'wild speculation' necessary, just "Right
Division" of God's Two Different Contexts, eh?:

'last day' of earthly prophecy and covenants for 12 apostles and Israel

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

'last day' Of Heavenly Grace and Mystery to One apostle for The Body Of Christ

And, precious friends, Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and
Edified In The Lord Jesus Christ, and In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
!

Amen.
No, Dispensationalism wrongly divides and fragments the word, they get it wrong everytime.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,749
400
83
No, Dispensationalism wrongly divides and fragments the word, they get it wrong everytime.

That does not make dispensationalism wrong.
But, only that some dispensationalists may be wrong about something.

Dispensationalism does not fragment the Word.
No more than saying the Colonialists lived with horses, and those in WW 2 drove automobiles,
is fragmenting American history. It simply places one into the right time frame to think with.
 
Feb 10, 2024
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First and Second Resurrections speaks of types of resurrections.

It does not have to mean sequential resurrections ..

God does not always think like we do..

"The first shall be last, and the last shall be first. "


.
i agree with you as “his thoughts are higher than our thoughts, his ways are higher than our ways “

i earlier attacked the left behind movies because these are satans institutions and his devices, the amount of deception and anti scriptural depictions in these and all hollywood productions is astounding.

i personally would rather be ready for Christs’ appearing at all times and leave the details to the Father.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,749
400
83
i agree with you as “his thoughts are higher than our thoughts, his ways are higher than our ways “

i earlier attacked the left behind movies because these are satans institutions and his devices, the amount of deception and anti scriptural depictions in these and all hollywood productions is astounding.

i personally would rather be ready for Christs’ appearing at all times and leave the details to the Father.
I being born a Jew am curious as to why you refer to yourself as Mike "Israelite."
The reason I ask, is that I wonder what kind of indoctrination you have accepted and are working with in your thinking.

As for your vague and generalized accusation concerning certain movies, I am left with nothing to think with unless I watch those movies and have you point out what it was specifically that you found unbiblical....

But, for now. I'd rather stick with what the Bible says, no matter what
any movie misconstrues.... And, ask what *specifically* you found so egregious.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,081
196
63
agreeably, i also take the eyewitness reports with a grain of salt and in no way do they supercede anything in scripture however i believe in order to understand scripture and read it in context, all historical works need to be considered.
Yes, I agree. They are worthy of consideration, but there is also much mysticism and bias sprinkled into the recorded works of many writers of the historic writings available to us, such as the early church fathers. Many of them had bias that departs from the purity of scripture. Some have told me that they are firm believers in the writings of those who claim to have been discipled by John himself, and yet the things they said that departed from the inspired writings of scripture are not at all acceptable...at least, to me. Others have told me that they consider those men's writings to have been inspired in addition to John's own writings, simply because they were discipled by John. That clearly is unacceptable.

regarding this scripture:

“Behold! He comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see Him, even whoever had pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn before Him. Yeah, truly!”

That word translated as whoever, οἵτινες, which is a form of ὅστις, refers to anyone who has pierced Him. This is not merely a reference to the Jews or the Roman soldiers of the first century. Rather, it is a warning to all of those who reject Christ, for when we reject Christ we uphold His crucifixion.
Yes, every eyes on this earth will see Him when He comes at His second coming, including the Jews after two thirds of them are wiped out from the face of this earth. It's sad that we are so stiff-necked as a people that it takes that much devastation of our people to get the remnant to finally admit that our forefathers had pierced Yahshuah, and that they had all rejected Him who laid down His life a ransom for sin.

Consider what paul said in Hebrews chapter 6:

“For impossible it is, those once being enlightened both tasting of the heavenly gift and becoming partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasting of the good word of Yahweh and powers of the coming age 6 yet falling away, to restore again in repentance, upholding the crucifixion among themselves and making an example of the Son of Yahweh.”

This is exactly what many of our own Israelite people have done, people who have been Christians for centuries, by embracing humanism and hedonism and all the practices of the neo-Canaanites: the antichrist Jews who have now usurped our once-Christian society.

I consider the true israelites of God bring those who accepted the gospel as it was preached prior to the destruction of the temple in 70ad. these were where the Israelites are scattered and in everyplace they have gone since, to the north, to the south, to the east and to the west, God has blessed their society and built the greatest empires the world has seen until this time.
My predecessors were scattered in about 722 BC by the Assyrians. However, our ancestors before the cross were not filled with Holy Spirit. The Spirit would indeed be upon some, but the indwelling only took place after the coming of Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

The antichrist Jews that the world and church acknowledged today are not the israelites of God, they are the canaanites of old, the house of esau; attempting to steal back the birthright of the sons of Jacob thereby deceiving the whole world.
I pray for our brethren, for more and more of them are coming unto Yahshhuah in faith in Israel and abroad. Great strides are being made to bring more of our fellow Jews into the Light. Yah has great things in store for us. Those who follow after "replacement theology" are those who disbelieve Yah. They place Yah on the lowest shelves of their hearts, down there with the pagan gods that they worship in addition to Yah, such as money and comforts. They transliterate the word of Yah into meaningless yammering.

MM
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,749
400
83
Yes, I agree. They are worthy of consideration, but there is also much mysticism and bias sprinkled into the recorded works of many writers of the historic writings available to us, such as the early church fathers. Many of them had bias that departs from the purity of scripture. Some have told me that they are firm believers in the writings of those who claim to have been discipled by John himself, and yet the things they said that departed from the inspired writings of scripture are not at all acceptable...at least, to me. Others have told me that they consider those men's writings to have been inspired in addition to John's own writings, simply because they were discipled by John. That clearly is unacceptable.
Peter warned that those following right after the apostles would distort the truth...

Peter wrote the following to his congregation!
Keep in mind. They would be alive to see it happen.
It would not take long to bring in the corrupt teachings!


2 Peter 2:1-2​
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.
They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will
bring swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their unrestrained ways, and the way of truth
will be blasphemed because of them."


And, note! Peter was one who was knowledgeable of Paul's teaching on the temporary gifts.
In essence. Peter was saying that the gift of prophesy had already ceased! How?
For, Peter was saying that there will not be false prophets, but false teachers amongst them.

So much is said. Yet not detected until God opens our eyes....


grace and peace .........
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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="Genez, post: 5320847, member: 262512:

"2 Peter 2:1-2
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.
They will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, and will
bring swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their unrestrained ways, and the way of truth
will be blasphemed because of them."
He nailed John Darby, as did preachers of Darby's day to a "T"
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,081
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He nailed John Darby, as did preachers of Darby's day to a "T"
It is only in ignorance that you keep hammering on Darby. The pre-trib rapture was not an invention of that man. All he did was popularize in the midst of falsehoods what had already been foretold within scripture.

MM
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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It is only in ignorance that you keep hammering on Darby. The pre-trib rapture was not an invention of that man. All he did was popularize in the midst of falsehoods what had already been foretold within scripture.

MM
And yet, there's no trail connecting anyone else from the Church Fathers to the Reformers, to Darby's own day pushing this idealism. But once it was discovered by Darby then suddenly it became a stronghold. Ironically, a stronghold by a heretic. As if a less than 200 year old Doctrine could ever be correct!
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
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And yet, there's no trail connecting anyone else from the Church Fathers to the Reformers, to Darby's own day pushing this idealism. But once it was discovered by Darby then suddenly it became a stronghold. Ironically, a stronghold by a heretic. As if a less than 200 year old Doctrine could ever be correct!
That's a red herring argument. It's meaningless. There is no rule requiring that there be connections among the so-called "church fathers" and other closer-to-modern-times writers. You place far more emphasis of those so-called "church fathers" than others around you, so your appeals to them, as if appeals to antiquity ensures authenticity and authority, you're appealing to what is clearly inferior in relation to the inspired writings of the apostles, and especially of Christ.

MM
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
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That's a red herring argument. It's meaningless. There is no rule requiring that there be connections among the so-called "church fathers" and other closer-to-modern-times writers. You place far more emphasis of those so-called "church fathers" than others around you, so your appeals to them, as if appeals to antiquity ensures authenticity and authority, you're appealing to what is clearly inferior in relation to the inspired writings of the apostles, and especially of Christ.

MM
I place nothing but looking at 1800 years of church history where nowhere can be found this doctrine of secret Rapture or pre-trib idealism. That in itself is less than 200 years old. And that is what is fishy.
 

Musicmaster

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2021
1,081
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I place nothing but looking at 1800 years of church history where nowhere can be found this doctrine of secret Rapture or pre-trib idealism. That in itself is less than 200 years old. And that is what is fishy.
Then you conveniently overlooked a previous post of mine where I cited one from the first century, and a couple others down through those 1800 years who spoke of this doctrine. Very convenient indeed is the path of your choosing.

MM
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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400
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He nailed John Darby, as did preachers of Darby's day to a "T"
Adam still ate of that tree .... didn't he?

Anyone who wants to?
Can rationalize to gain an effect they crave to produce on others....

Believe what you want. I know what I know.

Have a nice Day..
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,749
400
83
I place nothing but looking at 1800 years of church history where nowhere can be found this doctrine of secret Rapture or pre-trib idealism. That in itself is less than 200 years old. And that is what is fishy.
God does not reveal 100% of what He has planned until He wants to.

Its about warfare.