Things to Consider Before Attempting to Correct the King James Bible

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KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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Hmmmm, i need to read more here. I am sure there is something I'm missing.

I like the CJB translation for Isaiah 45:7, I think it brings more clarity for me...

I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, Adonai , do all these things.
Yesha 'yahu (Isa) 45:7 CJB
https://bible.com/bible/1275/isa.45.7.CJB
To me the CJB waters it down to the point that it’s meaingless. I mean what is well being and what does that have to do with peace?
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
Isa 45:7 needs to be understood in context - God "creates evil" by bringing judgment on His enemies such when he had the Babylonians make war on Israel.

Just as he brought evil upon the apostate Jews in the war of 66-70 AD at the hands of the Romans.

So he creates peace and creates evil.
That's not evil... that's justice! Do you think people generally call prison evil? No, it's a system setup to deal with evil. It's again called "justice"
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
Hmmmm, i need to read more here. I am sure there is something I'm missing.

I like the CJB translation for Isaiah 45:7, I think it brings more clarity for me...

I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, Adonai , do all these things.
Yesha 'yahu (Isa) 45:7 CJB
https://bible.com/bible/1275/isa.45.7.CJB
Calamity, disaster, woe... Sounds about right.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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It's how Isaiah is using the "term" the context is peace - it's opposite no peace is brought upon those nations mentioned in the OT by war.

Look at the lead up:

(Isa 45:1 KJV) Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
 

Locutus

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Feb 10, 2017
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As we can see from how the KJV has translated the Hebrew (H7451 ra` rah) context plays a role in understanding:

KJV: adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease(-ure), distress, evil((- favouredness), man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief(-vous), harm, heavy, hurt(-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief(-vous), misery, naught(-ty), noisome, + not please, sad(-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked(-ly, -ness, one), worse(-st), wretchedness, wrong.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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davidclark.hearnow.com
As we can see from how the KJV has translated the Hebrew (H7451 ra` rah) context plays a role in understanding:

KJV: adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease(-ure), distress, evil((- favouredness), man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief(-vous), harm, heavy, hurt(-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief(-vous), misery, naught(-ty), noisome, + not please, sad(-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked(-ly, -ness, one), worse(-st), wretchedness, wrong.
Yeah, and "evil" was a very poor translation.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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I sure am when the word contradicts the Word itself. Take "evil" for example.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Well, well well! I'm so glad we have millions of Christians walking around claiming that God is the author of all evil. I"m sure the Holy, Righteous, Just, Pure, and Perfect God of creation loves hearing this.
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

KJV

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

When God created Adam and Eve they had an innocent nature.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Lucifer was created perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him.

So God did not create evil for He made Adam and Eve, and Lucifer, with an innocent nature, but evil happened because He created them, but He did not create evil directly.

But evil can mean calamity, or adversity.

Evil can only come from the wicked, but the KJV says that God created Adam and Eve, and Lucifer, with an innocent nature.

I do not know how somebody in the truth could actually believe God created evil in the beginning, when they know Adam and Eve had an innocent nature, and the angels that did rebel at one time was not fallen yet.

God did not create them bad, but good, so anybody in the truth of God would know the interpretation, and it would only be people that are not serious about God and His word, or people that only want to point a finger at the Bible finding fault that would think otherwise.

For when I read that scripture as a babe in Christ, I knew God did not create anything evil, and not people, or angels, but they did it themselves, for that is a given when we confess Christ who showed the love of God, and God's nature, and that is Christianity 101.

How would anybody actually think that it means God created evil in the beginning when He said it was good, and Adam and Eve were created with an innocent nature, and Lucifer was created with an innocent nature.

And I never heard someone that confessed Christ think otherwise.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Use of Hebrew rah:

Jer 18:7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;

Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.

Jer 18:9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;

Jer 18:1 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.
 

Epiales

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
291
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davidclark.hearnow.com
ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

KJV

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

When God created Adam and Eve they had an innocent nature.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Lucifer was created perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him.

So God did not create evil for He made Adam and Eve, and Lucifer, with an innocent nature, but evil happened because He created them, but He did not create evil directly.

But evil can mean calamity, or adversity.

Evil can only come from the wicked, but the KJV says that God created Adam and Eve, and Lucifer, with an innocent nature.

I do not know how somebody in the truth could actually believe God created evil in the beginning, when they know Adam and Eve had an innocent nature, and the angels that did rebel at one time was not fallen yet.

God did not create them bad, but good, so anybody in the truth of God would know the interpretation, and it would only be people that are not serious about God and His word, or people that only want to point a finger at the Bible finding fault that would think otherwise.

For when I read that scripture as a babe in Christ, I knew God did not create anything evil, and not people, or angels, but they did it themselves, for that is a given when we confess Christ who showed the love of God, and God's nature, and that is Christianity 101.

How would anybody actually think that it means God created evil in the beginning when He said it was good, and Adam and Eve were created with an innocent nature, and Lucifer was created with an innocent nature.

And I never heard someone that confessed Christ think otherwise.
You don't go into the chat often then... It's brought up quite frequently, and MANY professing Christians say God created evil. I think we may one or two in this thread that think so as well. I don't get it either.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
675
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ra‛ râ‛âh
rah, raw-aw'
From H7489; bad or (as noun) evil (naturally or morally). This includes the second (feminine) form; as adjective or noun: - adversity, affliction, bad, calamity, + displease (-ure), distress, evil ([-favouredness], man, thing), + exceedingly, X great, grief (-vous), harm, heavy, hurt (-ful), ill (favoured), + mark, mischief, (-vous), misery, naught (-ty), noisome, + not please, sad (-ly), sore, sorrow, trouble, vex, wicked (-ly, -ness, one), worse (-st) wretchedness, wrong. [Including feminine ra’ah; as adjective or noun.]

KJV

Ecc 7:29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.

When God created Adam and Eve they had an innocent nature.

Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Lucifer was created perfect in his ways, until iniquity was found in him.

So God did not create evil for He made Adam and Eve, and Lucifer, with an innocent nature, but evil happened because He created them, but He did not create evil directly.

But evil can mean calamity, or adversity.

Evil can only come from the wicked, but the KJV says that God created Adam and Eve, and Lucifer, with an innocent nature.

I do not know how somebody in the truth could actually believe God created evil in the beginning, when they know Adam and Eve had an innocent nature, and the angels that did rebel at one time was not fallen yet.

God did not create them bad, but good, so anybody in the truth of God would know the interpretation, and it would only be people that are not serious about God and His word, or people that only want to point a finger at the Bible finding fault that would think otherwise.

For when I read that scripture as a babe in Christ, I knew God did not create anything evil, and not people, or angels, but they did it themselves, for that is a given when we confess Christ who showed the love of God, and God's nature, and that is Christianity 101.

How would anybody actually think that it means God created evil in the beginning when He said it was good, and Adam and Eve were created with an innocent nature, and Lucifer was created with an innocent nature.

And I never heard someone that confessed Christ think otherwise.
ra ra ra yer boat gently down the page.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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The problem with using multiple translations, specifically modern translations is that in an unnecessary attempt to improve upon the Bible they corrupt the language of Christianity. If Christians had stuck with the tried and tested for 400 years King James Bible then the language of Christianity would be better harmonized which I think would have prevented much of the division that has occurred in Christianity since the 1800's. Translations can now be tailored to peoples preferences so as to improve sales thereby making men their own authority, rather than following God's word men become their own authority on what God said.
Inaccuracy in translations can also cause confusion in doctrine such as in the New King James Bible which says that we are "being saved":

18 For the [g]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18 NKJV)

This is false as salvation is not a process, the King James Bible on the other hand is correct when it tells us that as Christians we are saved:

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

I do however agree that God can and does use the modern translations to bring people to Christ and work in the lives of Christians in spite of the flaws that they contain. God bless.
Although I personally would chose the King James 99.9 % of time there are errors that can be shown. One big one that has led many to believe inspiration is loosed from earth (Rome) and bound in heaven in the end created a false security for perhaps millions .

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.Mathew 16:18 -19 King James

The Youngs literal turns it right side up. Putting the authority in the proper perspective.

And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it; and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'Mathew 16:18 -19 Youngs literal
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,749
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You don't go into the chat often then... It's brought up quite frequently, and MANY professing Christians say God created evil. I think we may one or two in this thread that think so as well. I don't get it either.

Two kinds of evil . A evil that comes when someone violates the law of God as the consequence and a evil which God brings upon a people. Like the evil that came in judgment of David when he numbered the troops .God lifted his hand of protection and many died when God created that. Or he could use Israel to create an evil against other nations.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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And I also say to thee, that thou art a Petros, and upon this Petra I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it; and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.'Mathew 16:18 -19 Youngs literal
This could have been improved even more by showing us who the Rock really is.
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
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im not sure why but im the only one that has a problem with whos name is on the KJV. i bet the majority of the KJV only people have no idea who this king was. he wasnt a very good guy.
what if we had the best bible translation ever and it was called the Jim Jones bible? how many would open their eyes then?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Most Germans use the KWV.

King Wilhelm Version BigSmile.gif
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,388
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im not sure why but im the only one that has a problem with whos name is on the KJV. i bet the majority of the KJV only people have no idea who this king was. he wasnt a very good guy.
what if we had the best bible translation ever and it was called the Jim Jones bible? how many would open their eyes then?
There are those that worship the version in a manner consistent with Jonestown........especially when they say Jesus and Paul preached from the King Jimmy!!
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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With all this reasoning about translations, we are forgetting the purpose of scripture. The purpose is to hear God speak to us.

When God found that people were going far from His ways with idols and man made ideas, God created a people to listen to Him, God created the Hebrews and gave them a language. It expresses God better than any other language, and almost all the OT was first written in that language. Scholars even see the difference in Hebrew thought and Greek thought, a language used often in the NT. Every person God used to express His thoughts in the NT had their roots in Hebrew thought.

As we read scripture in the various translations, even the KJV, we need to keep this in mind. As an example, the KJV translation was done during a time the world was persecuting Jews because of their nationality and the translation reflects that. The word Passover is translated Easter, a word not in God's vocabulary.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Instead of looking for a different version for Isaiah 45:7 to find a word we like the sound of to replace evil, why not try something novel like context? ;)

Then mix in some 2 Timothy 2:15 for good measure? So, I mean not just context of Isaiah 45:7, but the whole of Scripture on this issue.

We should never adjust Scripture to serve what we think is reasonable, logical, to our liking, or what we deem correct. Scripture should do that for us instead. (Not accusing anyone here of this personally, and we know no one would do that anyway, right?) :LOL::rolleyes:

Hint: Job received the same from the LORD, evil, or call it what you will, calamity, what have you, and his attitude was that we receive this also from the LORD as well as we receive good from the LORD. But look at the context of what he received from God, and how. Note when Job said this, to add clarity to it (to reinforce the fact we receive both good and evil from God) Scripture said of Job that he didn't sin with his lips when he said it, Job 2:10.

Evil did not create itself arbitrarily out of nothing.

Now we are either left to deal with it and face it, or, we can brush it under the rug like many and get all offended about it while denying this reality. So, we can have a truncated view of God, or we can have a biblical view of God. Want to shock yourselves? Read The Existence and Attributes of God or similar title by Stephen Charnock or A. W. Pink.