Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#2,161
Feb 24, 2015
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#2,161
My experience of getting saved, is the hardest thing in the whole of creation.

You are passing from the Kingdom of darkness to light, it changes all you are,
and all you have been and promises much but you have to give everything.

He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
Jim Elliot
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,162
#2,162
Roughsoul1991 said:
I have not told anyone such thing. I have been defending my belief. Find where I told someone your not saved? I havent even said someone has lost their salvation. I am only defending that someone can lose salvation with and by scripture. But if your belief is the only belief and all others are wrong then I can see your misguidance in saying what you said, its okay to judge me on my defense of scripture i guess.
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i just made a comment. Did it hit you?

How OT does one lose salvation? How does one lose a gift?
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#2,163
Sep 17, 2016
8,785
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#2,163
eternally-gratefull said:
1. salvation is a gift not a reward
2. Paul never doubted his salvation. He knew to be absent from the body was to be present with the lord.
3. Osas gives us gratitude, and true faith and the gift of the Holy Spirit die to that faith which is more than enough inclination to do everything god asks.
4. Your straw man of replacing grace with works because you think it does not motivate fails, because you must then save yourself by law. Good luck with that motivating you fear never got anyone to do things out of love. Which Gods children are asked t do. Anything not in love is useless it says
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And I will not give into your childish remarks putting words in my mouth and saying things I never said. Paul had hope for what was to come that's faith. And I never said Paul doubted his salvation he knew what he was doing in true faith was what Jesus had called him to do.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#2,165
Sep 17, 2016
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#2,165
Grace777x70 said:
I have seen active church people doing that - growing weak in faith in what Christ has done and have experienced it myself.

It comes from bad religious teachings that deny the work of Christ and the believer is left with a works-based belief system that denies what Christ has done. It comes from not preaching the gospel of the grace of God and instead preaching a works-based false gospel that has no power.

I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus because He lives in our new hearts ) because they could not live this religious Christian life that was being preached to them. They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.

Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!

The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.

We need to make sure that these coming back are met at the door by the Father Himself and not the judgmental, angry, works-based older brother which didn't know the heart of the Father.
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But you just said you have seen this in your church?
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#2,167
Feb 24, 2015
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#2,167
Roughsoul1991 said:
And this pure heart has to grow and mature. But see this is what God wants for us but our old fallen nature is still their fighting with the new heart to do right. Satin and his army is still attacking every day to win your soul or else it would be pointless to use the armor of God. If you believe satin cant lie, tempt or distract someone away from God then satin has already won by lieing to you. He cant force no one just like God cant force no one. But Satin sure can help people fall away, quench and grieve the Spirit making the spirit ignored and not as loud. Only helping the person fall into deliberate sins. Have you never seen active church brothers and sisters grow weak in faith to the point of questioning is God even real? I have seen it and seen people give up.
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Sin destroys our relationship with God, it eats away our faith, by saying, how can you
behave like this and still say you follow God. Either leave God or repent and get right
with Him.

This is the question of idolatry. Do we worship our sins more than we worship God?
If we do not share with others, confess our sins, resolve our internal conflicts, they
will resolve themselves by stopping our faith in God. This is how people loose their
salvation and it needs to be shown victory is possible, and no sin is too great not
to be overcome.

But this is our walk into eternity, and few will make it to the end. The crazy thing
is righteousness is not a nice to have, it is life and is the sensible right response to
everything. What we need to work out is why some things or outlooks take hold of
us and turn us around. Because in reality to dust we all return, and all is vanity unless
it is a reflection of the Lord of all.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#2,168
Sep 17, 2016
8,785
4,453
113
#2,168
Grace777x70 said:
I have seen active church people doing that - growing weak in faith in what Christ has done and have experienced it myself.

It comes from bad religious teachings that deny the work of Christ and the believer is left with a works-based belief system that denies what Christ has done. It comes from not preaching the gospel of the grace of God and instead preaching a works-based false gospel that has no power.

I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus because He lives in our new hearts ) because they could not live this religious Christian life that was being preached to them. They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.

Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!

The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.

We need to make sure that these coming back are met at the door by the Father Himself and not the judgmental, angry, works-based older brother which didn't know the heart of the Father.
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If you have seen it in your church and yall are being taught true grace then what is their excuse now?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,169
#2,169
Roughsoul1991 said:
And I will not give into your childish remarks putting words in my mouth and saying things I never said. Paul had hope for what was to come that's faith. And I never said Paul doubted his salvation he knew what he was doing in true faith was what Jesus had called him to do.
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You used Osas as a means in your response, thugs you made it a salvation issue.. Don;t blame me when I respond to you in context (not to mention you responded to a person who had salvation in context)
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#2,170
Sep 17, 2016
8,785
4,453
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#2,170
PeterJens said:
Sin destroys our relationship with God, it eats away our faith, by saying, how can you
behave like this and still say you follow God. Either leave God or repent and get right
with Him.

This is the question of idolatry. Do we worship our sins more than we worship God?
If we do not share with others, confess our sins, resolve our internal conflicts, they
will resolve themselves by stopping our faith in God. This is how people loose their
salvation and it needs to be shown victory is possible, and no sin is too great not
to be overcome.

But this is our walk into eternity, and few will make it to the end. The crazy thing
is righteousness is not a nice to have, it is life and is the sensible right response to
everything. What we need to work out is why some things or outlooks take hold of
us and turn us around. Because in reality to dust we all return, and all is vanity unless
it is a reflection of the Lord of all.
Click to expand...
Amen very true. When did the words in the NT become selfish works? I do not get it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,171
#2,171
Roughsoul1991 said:
Are you implying you made it, to hit me?
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so you would lost faith in a person who NEVER let you down? And gave you more than you could ever desire?

I would love to see that.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,173
#2,173
Roughsoul1991 said:
Amen very true. When did the words in the NT become selfish works? I do not get it.
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When people make it a requirement to get saved, They turn the grace of God to legalism. And are no better than the Pharisee who rejected Christ.

Just because you preach Christ, and good works. Does not mean you know Christ at all. Just look at all the people Paul had to condemn for doing that verity thing.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#2,176
#2,176
Roughsoul1991 said:
Step inside a church and hang around for a few months and you will.
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I have been going to church for 45 years. And I have never seen it..

I have seen prodigal children (I myself was one for 5 years) but they always come back. Like I did

I have seen people walk away.. and never come back, But John says they became antichrists because they were never of the church, of they never would have left.

I choose to trust John, Not you. Ok??
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#2,177
Sep 17, 2016
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#2,177
eternally-gratefull said:
When people make it a requirement to get saved, They turn the grace of God to legalism. And are no better than the Pharisee who rejected Christ.

Just because you preach Christ, and good works. Does not mean you know Christ at all. Just look at all the people Paul had to condemn for doing that verity thing.
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Jude also condemed people who perverted grace into a message of immorality believing the teachings no longer mattered and that sin no longer matters either. Paul made a bold statement aginst this way of thought too. So does the author of Hebrews. I confident calvinism originated from this belief system but has gotten even more stealthy into twisting scripture.
 
Roughsoul1991

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
#2,178
Sep 17, 2016
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#2,178
eternally-gratefull said:
I have been going to church for 45 years. And I have never seen it..

I have seen prodigal children (I myself was one for 5 years) but they always come back. Like I did

I have seen people walk away.. and never come back, But John says they became antichrists because they were never of the church, of they never would have left.

I choose to trust John, Not you. Ok??
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Thats fine you do not know me or do I expect your trust. Im telling what I know and your the first person ever to say that so congrats.
 
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