Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

[Grace777x70]

And the word seal is the same for the seal on the tomb, seal on the revelation scrolls and a king's signet ring. Its only a mark the promise Jesus told us he would give us a helper. The Spirit does not take your free will he is a helper, not an enforcer. It would go aginst the very nature of God to force you to love him.

The love of God has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. We do not save ourselves. Christ is the Savior.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Exactly and Ephesians 1:13 shows the process.

1) we hear the message of Christ 2) we believe the message when we hear it 3) we are sealed with the Holy Spirit

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1) the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2) you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past that is completed.

I don't know how much plainer it can get. People have the choice to either believe Christ Himself is the Savior or they are. They can choose to believe that if they hold out until the end ( whatever that means in reality ) that then death can be their savior.

True biblical belief is a matter of the heart and we respond when we hear the message of Christ- not of the mind. God creates a new heart in us - incorruptible.

Do you believe this new heart is given all at first or is it a working progress throughout a believer's life?

 

[mailmandan]

We are sealed with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption.

Amen! We are sealed UNTO/FOR the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30).

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words
<1,,728,arrabon> originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 1:21 - Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words and those Bible translations speak for themselves, but eternal IN-securists seem determined to believe what they want to believe regardless. Paul is not using the word to denote a deposit that would be forfeit upon default (as Vine's pointed out) because he is talking about a promise that God made, not a promise that we made. Eternal IN-securists want to read this as a deposit we make as if we gave ourselves the Holy Spirit. It is GOD, not us Who made the down payment; and it is GOD not us who is making the promise about sealing believers UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The love of God has been poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit. We do not save ourselves. Christ is the Savior.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

We are not saving initiating salvation by our works. Only God can do the whole salvation thing, But faith is the doing on man's part to be given grace.

 

[Sully]

[h=1]Galatians 5:22-23King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

[/FONT]
[h=1]2 Peter 1:5-7New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Matthew 3:8New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
God tells us what to inspect and expect.
[/FONT]
[h=1]John 15New International Version (NIV)[/h][h=3]The Vine and the Branches[/h][FONT=&quot]15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.[/FONT]

Right so fruit is a noun not a verb, trackin.

 

[PeterJens]

Imagine this - A person get through the post the most amazing food.

They taste a little bit and it stuns them into action.
They want more, it really is what they were missing, everything makes sense
now, this is where they need to go.

A few years later, nothing has changed and they are still doing what they were
doing before.

Now if they believed the taster, and had gone on and got involved, found out
the realities, believed them and walked in them, that is where you would find them.

But it was just a passing thing.

Why should the Lord of all take any notice of this tumble weed, blowing here and
there never with a foundation, never understanding just dabbling.

Eternity is about reality and the spiritual truths of life. They are not just a taster
session they are life. And if you reject life you have rejected life. End of story.

 

[Grace777x70]

All we must do is surrender daily to deny ourselves and take up the cross this is what leads to obedience as Christ works in us with us as we surrender(faith) to his will. We are in a relationship and its on us to grow in faith. Why else would the author of Hebrews make a statement like by now you should be consuming whole food but you are still infants.

Not true. We have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God. We have taken up our cross and went to the cross and died with Christ.


We don't surrender daily. That's a religious teaching that denies the work of Christ. We are dead now with Christ and have risen to new life with Him. That is our true life now. Now we are to live unto God!

Galatians 2:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 6:8-11 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him
.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

We only have one self and it is one spirit with the Lord. We are having our minds renewed to the truth that is in Christ.

Religion is always trying to accomplish by it's own work what Christ has already done with His finished work.

The author of Hebrews is talking to Jews telling them to come off the milk of the Messiah and believing in the Jewish religion and come to faith in Christ. Why do you think he spends 10 chapters comparing Christ with the Law and Moses. Comparing the priesthood of Christ to Aaron's...etc.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Amen! We are sealed UNTO/FOR the day of redemption (Ephesians 4:30).

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words
<1,,728,arrabon> originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance.

2 Corinthians 1:21 - Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

The Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words and those Bible translations speak for themselves, but eternal IN-securists seem determined to believe what they want to believe regardless. Paul is not using the word to denote a deposit that would be forfeit upon default (as Vine's pointed out) because he is talking about a promise that God made, not a promise that we made. Eternal IN-securists want to read this as a deposit we make as if we gave ourselves the Holy Spirit. It is GOD, not us Who made the down payment; and it is GOD not us who is making the promise about sealing believers UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

You can deny what an earnest agreement is and copy and paste almost all of the description of earnest money but leave out the last sentence and then also deny what the seal is as a mark to those who believe only meaning the spirit will be with them until death nothing about salvation. But only denying it only hurts the deniers.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Not true. We have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God. We have taken up our cross and went to the cross and died with Christ.


We don't surrender daily. That's a religious teaching that denies the work of Christ. We are dead now with Christ and have risen to new life with Him. That is our true life now. Now we are to live unto God!

Galatians 2:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 6:8-11 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him
.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

We only have one self and it is one spirit with the Lord. We are having our minds renewed to the truth that is in Christ.

Religion is always trying to accomplish by it's own work what Christ has already done with His finished work.

The author of Hebrews is talking to Jews telling them to come off the milk of the Messiah and believing in the Jewish religion and come to faith in Christ. Why do you think he spends 10 chapters comparing Christ with the Law and Moses. Comparing the priesthood of Christ to Aaron's...etc.

[h=1]Luke 9:23New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.

[/FONT]
[h=1]Luke 14:27New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

[/FONT]
[h=1]1 Peter 2:21New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.[/FONT]

 

[Grace777x70]

Do you believe this new heart is given all at first or is it a working progress throughout a believer's life?

Good question. Let's see what the scriptures say. I believe scriptures show we have this new heart and that we also work out what is in us now by the renewing of our mind to the truth that is only found in Christ's work.

All born-again Christians are pure in heart and have a new heart. It's the same reason why all water is wet. It's the very nature of it.

Thank God that the gospel of the grace of Christ has given us believers a new heart which is pure because it is in Christ!

I believe that scripture teaches that we have new hearts now in Christ as a new creation in Him.

The Lord prophesied in the Old Testament that He would give us a new heart. Ezekiel 11:19; Ezekiel 18:31 ; Ezekiel 36:26

We are not a new evolution - we are a new creation - now we work out in our renewing of our minds what has already happened to our new hearts sealed in Christ where the Holy Spirit dwells.

In the Old Testament David cried out prophetically - looking into this New Covenant and sais - "Create in me a clean heart O God". Jesus Himself says to "clean up the inside of the cup and the vessel will be clean".

We don't need to search our hearts for wrong things - we need to have our minds renewed to the truth of Christ living in us now.

It's the flesh that "speaks" to us as all the "works" in Gal 5 are from the flesh. We are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 - but we are "in the Spirit" - our inner man in Christ.

We need as Christians to learn to live from this new heart that was "created" in us because of Christ's finished work for us.

I firmly believe we are confusing the "desires of the flesh which still has the law of sin in it" ( Romans 7:23 ) and wrongly calling it our heart.

We have been circumcised with the circumcision of the heart - called the circumcision of Christ and the body of flesh. Col 2:11. This is also called "being sealed by the Holy Spirit" Eph 1:13

The Holy Spirit "cut away" ( as in physical circumcision ) the body of the flesh from the inner man who is in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:23

Here are the reasons why I believe we Christians have a new heart now in Christ and not a corrupted heart. We need to learn how to live from this new heart which is where Christ is in us as one spirit by the Holy Spirit.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

[h=1]Romans 6:16New International Version (NIV)[/h][FONT=&quot]16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

[FONT=&quot]Hebrews 11 [/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][ Faith in Action ] Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

[h=1]1 Timothy 1:19New International Version (NIV)[/h]19 holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.
[/FONT]

 

[mailmandan]

You can deny what an earnest agreement is and copy and paste almost all of the description of earnest money but leave out the last sentence and then also deny what the seal is as a mark to those who believe only meaning the spirit will be with them until death nothing about salvation. But only denying it only hurts the deniers.

You can deny that in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance

AND you can also deny these passages of Scripture as well below - 2 Corinthians 1:21 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession

But denying the truth only hurts you (and other eternal IN-securists) as you remain on that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security.

 

[Grace777x70]

Luke 9:23New International Version (NIV)

23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.


Luke 14:27New International Version (NIV)

27 And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.


1 Peter 2:21New International Version (NIV)

21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

And we that believed in Christ have done that very thing and followed Christ to the cross where we were crucified with Him. We really need to start believing in what Christ has done for us and stop trying to do what He has already done.

Romans 6:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

True judging is wrong but correcting and helping a fellow brother or sister in love and patience who is showing struggle in the fruit area is highly motivated.

telling them they are not saved, or will lose their salvation however is wrong.. And it should be done according scripture.. Not in an open chat room or open setting, unless insinuating circumstances prevent privacy.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

​Isn't it wonderful that it is so easy to get saved?

look at CC. I would say it is not that easy,, or it is so easy it is hard.. (make sense?)

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Good question. Let's see what the scriptures say. I believe scriptures show we have this new heart and that we also work out what is in us now by the renewing of our mind to the truth that is only found in Christ's work.

All born-again Christians are pure in heart and have a new heart. It's the same reason why all water is wet. It's the very nature of it.

Thank God that the gospel of the grace of Christ has given us believers a new heart which is pure because it is in Christ!

I believe that scripture teaches that we have new hearts now in Christ as a new creation in Him.

The Lord prophesied in the Old Testament that He would give us a new heart. Ezekiel 11:19; Ezekiel 18:31 ; Ezekiel 36:26

We are not a new evolution - we are a new creation - now we work out in our renewing of our minds what has already happened to our new hearts sealed in Christ where the Holy Spirit dwells.

In the Old Testament David cried out prophetically - looking into this New Covenant and sais - "Create in me a clean heart O God". Jesus Himself says to "clean up the inside of the cup and the vessel will be clean".

We don't need to search our hearts for wrong things - we need to have our minds renewed to the truth of Christ living in us now.

It's the flesh that "speaks" to us as all the "works" in Gal 5 are from the flesh. We are not "in the flesh" as Paul says in Romans 8:9 - but we are "in the Spirit" - our inner man in Christ.

We need as Christians to learn to live from this new heart that was "created" in us because of Christ's finished work for us.

I firmly believe we are confusing the "desires of the flesh which still has the law of sin in it" ( Romans 7:23 ) and wrongly calling it our heart.

We have been circumcised with the circumcision of the heart - called the circumcision of Christ and the body of flesh. Col 2:11. This is also called "being sealed by the Holy Spirit" Eph 1:13

The Holy Spirit "cut away" ( as in physical circumcision ) the body of the flesh from the inner man who is in Christ - the new creation - created in righteousness and holiness. Eph 4:23

Here are the reasons why I believe we Christians have a new heart now in Christ and not a corrupted heart. We need to learn how to live from this new heart which is where Christ is in us as one spirit by the Holy Spirit.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and we are admonished to not to yield to that...but all that is a different subject.

And this pure heart has to grow and mature. But see this is what God wants for us but our old fallen nature is still their fighting with the new heart to do right. Satin and his army is still attacking every day to win your soul or else it would be pointless to use the armor of God. If you believe satin cant lie, tempt or distract someone away from God then satin has already won by lieing to you. He cant force no one just like God cant force no one. But Satin sure can help people fall away, quench and grieve the Spirit making the spirit ignored and not as loud. Only helping the person fall into deliberate sins. Have you never seen active church brothers and sisters grow weak in faith to the point of questioning is God even real? I have seen it and seen people give up.

 

[Grace777x70]

You can deny that in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14; 4:30 particularly of their eternal inheritance

AND you can also deny these passages of Scripture as well below - 2 Corinthians 1:21 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession

But denying the truth only hurts you (and other eternal IN-securists) as you remain on that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security.

Amen....

Jesus said "The Holy Spirit will be in you forever". John 14:16 Is Jesus now a liar? What else has He lied to us about then?

Paul said in plain Greek tense that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption when we heard the message of Christ. Is Paul lying to us too? What else has he lied about then?

Our minds cannot trust someone that is lying to us. The truth is neither Jesus nor Paul are liars. The enemy has distorted the message of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ to make it a works-based religion that actually denies the very work of Christ.

It is in only preaching and teaching the message of Christ and what He has already done that brings the faith and grace to live godly in this life. Romans 10:17 & Titus 2:11-12

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Even Paul had to train himself to do right and run the race in such a way to win the reward. Why say that if he already won it? It just goes against all of the other scriptures in the Bible. OSAS gives no inclination or strive to do anything because heck why when your saved already. It gives too much lead way to peoples sinful nature to abuse that doctrine

1. salvation is a gift not a reward
2. Paul never doubted his salvation. He knew to be absent from the body was to be present with the lord.
3. Osas gives us gratitude, and true faith and the gift of the Holy Spirit die to that faith which is more than enough inclination to do everything god asks.
4. Your straw man of replacing grace with works because you think it does not motivate fails, because you must then save yourself by law. Good luck with that motivating you fear never got anyone to do things out of love. Which Gods children are asked t do. Anything not in love is useless it says

 

[Roughsoul1991]

telling them they are not saved, or will lose their salvation however is wrong.. And it should be done according scripture.. Not in an open chat room or open setting, unless insinuating circumstances prevent privacy.

I have not told anyone such thing. I have been defending my belief. Find where I told someone your not saved? I havent even said someone has lost their salvation. I am only defending that someone can lose salvation with and by scripture. But if your belief is the only belief and all others are wrong then I can see your misguidance in saying what you said, its okay to judge me on my defense of scripture i guess.

 

[Grace777x70]

And this pure heart has to grow and mature. But see this is what God wants for us but our old fallen nature is still their fighting with the new heart to do right. Satin and his army is still attacking every day to win your soul or else it would be pointless to use the armor of God. If you believe satin cant lie, tempt or distract someone away from God then satin has already won by lieing to you. He cant force no one just like God cant force no one. But Satin sure can help people fall away, quench and grieve the Spirit making the spirit ignored and not as loud. Only helping the person fall into deliberate sins. Have you never seen active church brothers and sisters grow weak in faith to the point of questioning is God even real? I have seen it and seen people give up.

I have seen active church people doing that - growing weak in faith in what Christ has done and have experienced it myself.

It comes from bad religious teachings that deny the work of Christ and the believer is left with a works-based belief system that denies what Christ has done. It comes from not preaching the gospel of the grace of God and instead preaching a works-based false gospel that has no power.

I believe a lot of sincere believers have left the church ( not Jesus because He lives in our new hearts ) because they could not live this religious Christian life that was being preached to them. They loved Jesus " in their heart" but they didn't want to be a hypocrite so they backed away from the organized church.

Then there is the group that struggled with a certain sin and were never taught about grace properly and so they left because they were defeated. Constantly feeling condemned and guilty and full of shame. The legalists keep preaching at them to change!

The only change that is effective is from the true manifestation of the life of Jesus that is already in us - in our new creation and that only comes with the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I believe there are thousands of Christians like this but I also believe the Lord is bringing them back to Him - only this time it will be based on the true knowledge of Him and His love and grace for them.

We need to make sure that these coming back are met at the door by the Father Himself and not the judgmental, angry, works-based older brother which didn't know the heart of the Father.