To what extent does the OT apply to Christians?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#42
Hmm, can it be said the the OT served us with sacrifices to God but the NT serves Christ with us as sacrifices to Him?.
You are missing the entire message of the old testament with this statement. Have you read about the blood of the lamb put on the doorposts to save? When Christ celebrated Ppassover that celebrated this blood on the doorpost, Christ said it was His blood.

The old testament is scripture breathed by our eternal God who is always the same in the new testament and in the old testament. He is eternal and God's message is eternal.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#43
You are missing the entire message of the old testament with this statement. Have you read about the blood of the lamb put on the doorposts to save? When Christ celebrated Passover that celebrated this blood on the doorpost, Christ said it was His blood.

The old testament is scripture breathed by our eternal God who is always the same in the new testament and in the old testament. He is eternal and God's message is eternal.
I get all that, God gave them , and I would go as far as saying served them with the blood of the Passover Lamb, as I would even then He had a servant Heart. I mean, He is the same yesterday today and forever, yes? But remember after all God had down, they still whined and complained He hadn't done enough 'for them' so, what was missing from them that we now have privilege of but a servant heart, made like His?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#44
I get all that, God gave them , and I would go as far as saying served them with the blood of the Passover Lamb, as I would even then He had a servant Heart. I mean, He is the same yesterday today and forever, yes? But remember after all God had down, they still whined and complained He hadn't done enough 'for them' so, what was missing from them that we now have privilege of but a servant heart, made like His?
I don't quite understand your post, but it seems to be about "them" whoever them is. We are not to judge others, that is only God's place to do, but look for the speck in our own eye, so to speak. How any person on earth reacts or interprets scripture does not affect the truth of scripture in any way.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#46
I don't quite understand your post, but it seems to be about "them" whoever them is. We are not to judge others, that is only God's place to do, but look for the speck in our own eye, so to speak. How any person on earth reacts or interprets scripture does not affect the truth of scripture in any way.
Yes, I do always try look with the good eye. Don't be so paranoid....them of the Exodus.
 

Jocund

Active member
Jan 14, 2021
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#49
I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed.
Old Testament, Old Law. The law is fulfilled by Christ. The covenant of Christ and its commandments are in the NT. Ultimately, the new law is written on the hearts and minds of believers (this is said in both OT and NT). Comparing NT to OT can be confusing at times because despite using the same terms, they can mean vastly different things (e.g. "neighbour", "Israel", "commandments").

There are the first two commandments: "love God" and "love your neighbour". And there are forms of the Mosaic 10 commandments that exist in the NT (with some differences). Some dietary rules do exist in the NT, e.g. though nothing in itself is unclean if someone esteems something to be unclean, it is unclean to them (Romans 14:14).

In the new covenant, one need only look to the NT commandments, but you are free to observe OT rules. "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God." - 1 Corinthians 7:19 KJV. As an extension of "honouring father and mother" there are also implications that other traditions are permitted as well, so long as they don't contradict the law of Christ: "Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all." - Colossians 3:11 KJV

Some denominations carry forward old traditions from converts of other religions. Some have a high reverence for OT practices that are no longer required such as circumcision, some have patron saints that were previously identified as gods but now are recognised as servants of God (e.g. the Celtic goddess Bridget was replaced by Saint Bridget in Roman Catholicism to aid Irish conversion and allowed converts to keep aspects of their traditions).

Paul talks about this in the NT, "an idol is nothing" (1 Corinthians 8:4) in respect to graven images and the like. But if one were to weaken someone's faith by being in the presence of what appears to be idolatry, a believer is to abstain for the sake of the brother or sister that would have their conscience tempted.

Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.
"Surely you must know that people who practice evil cannot possess God’s kingdom realm. Stop being deceived![a] People who continue to engage in sexual immorality, idolatry, adultery, sexual perversion,[b] homosexuality, fraud, greed, drunkenness, verbal abuse,[c] or extortion—these will not inherit God’s kingdom realm." - 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 TPT

Instead of "homosexuality" (as it is a relatively new term) other translations have "the effeminate" or "pederasty". You don't need the OT to find these passages.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#51
Hello @Shlomit, first off (since I see that you are a new member), welcome to CChat :)

As for how the OT still applies to us today
(the role that it plays in the lives of believers ~and~ the unsaved), I think the following (an excerpt from one of my theology books) is important to consider.

THE THREEFOLD USE OF THE LAW

Every Christian wrestles with the question, how does the Old Testament law relate to my life? Is the Old Testament law irrelevant to Christians or is there some sense in which we are still bound by portions of it? As the heresy of antinomianism becomes ever more pervasive in our culture, the need to answer these questions grows increasingly urgent.

The Reformation was founded on grace and not upon law. Yet the law of God was not repudiated by the Reformers. John Calvin, for example, wrote what has become known as the “Threefold Use of the Law” in order to show the importance of the law for the Christian life.*

The first purpose of the law is to be a mirror. On the one hand, the law of God reflects and mirrors the perfect righteousness of God. The law tells us much about who God is. Perhaps more important, the law illumines human sinfulness. Augustine wrote, “The law orders, that we, after attempting to do what is ordered, and so feeling our weakness under the law, may learn to implore the help of grace.”** The law highlights our weakness so that we might seek the strength found in Christ. Here the law acts as a severe schoolmaster who drives us to Christ.

A second purpose for the law is the restraint of evil. The law, in and of itself, cannot change human hearts. It can, however, serve to protect the righteous from the unjust. Calvin says this purpose is “by means of its fearful denunciations and the consequent dread of punishment, to curb those who, unless forced, have no regard for rectitude and justice.”*** The law allows for a limited measure of justice on this earth, until the last judgment is realized.

The third purpose of the law is to reveal what is pleasing to God. As born-again children of God, the law enlightens us as to what is pleasing to our Father, whom we seek to serve. The Christian delights in the law as God Himself delights in it. Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). This is the highest function of the law, to serve as an instrument for the people of God to give Him honor and glory.

By studying or meditating on the law of God, we attend the school of righteousness. We learn what pleases God and what offends Him. The moral law that God reveals in Scripture is always binding upon us. Our redemption is from the curse of God’s law, not from our duty to obey it. We are justified, not because of our obedience to the law, but in order that we may become obedient to God’s law. To love Christ is to keep His commandments. To love God is to obey His law.

Summary
1. The church today has been invaded by antinomianism, which weakens, rejects, or distorts the law of God.
2. The law of God is a mirror of God’s holiness and our unrighteousness. It serves to reveal to us our need of a savior.
3. The law of God is a restraint against sin.
4. The law of God reveals what is pleasing and what is offensive to God.
5. The Christian is to love the law of God and to obey the moral law of God.

Biblical passages for reflection:
Psalm 19:7-11
Psalm 119:9-16
Romans 7:7-25
Romans 8:3-4
1 Corinthians 7:19
Galatians 3:24


1. Calvin, Institutes, bk. II, 1:304-310.*
2. Calvin, Institutes, bk. II, 1:306.
**
3. Calvin, Institutes, bk. II, 1:307.
***

~Excerpt from Essential Truths Of The Christian Faith by R. C. Sproul © (Tyndale 1992)

God bless you!

~Deut


Galatians 3
24 The Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#52
Every Christian wrestles with the question, how does the Old Testament law relate to my life? Is the Old Testament law irrelevant to Christians or is there some sense in which we are still bound by portions of it?
First, we must rightfully divide the law as told in scripture into law as God our Father gives us the law.​
There is the spirit of the law, this is the law that is part of our world as God created it. Then there is an interpretation of this law as God wrote it down in stone for Moses to give to train His people. Then there is laws given by Moses to the people in the wilderness to help them understand and obey the spirit of the law, commands necessary for them because they had not been all given the Holy Spirit to guide them so these earthly commands were given to help them. These we do not need any more.​
 

Jocund

Active member
Jan 14, 2021
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#54
Following OT commandments at the expense of NT commandments is a form of antinomianism.
 

Jocund

Active member
Jan 14, 2021
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#55
The Jews were created by God the Father from gentile people to be a special people to show all others how God works.
Up until Christ, and now Christians are the special people to show all others how God works.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
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#56
I have recieved many mixed messages from Christians regarding the OT. One on hand, many argue that the dietary laws, practises such as circumcision and obeying the Sabbath do not need to be observed. Many other Christians argue homosexuality should not be practised on the basis that it is forbidden in the OT.
Hello again Shlomit, Gentile and Hebrew Christians have no reason to observe what non-Jews refer to as the ceremonial laws of the OT (though they are free to do so if they wish to, of course).

As for what is referred to as the OT moral laws that, among other things, describe homosexual behavior as sinful, a Christian can use both the OT and/or the NT to explain why such behavior is sinful and should not be practiced .. e.g. Romans 1:26-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. The only difference that I know of is that the OT describes such behavior as an "abomination" .. e.g. Leviticus 18:22.

That said, the NT brings with it some VERY good news for homosexuals (as well for all of the rest of us sinners) as the Apostle Paul makes clear when he tells us that, "Such ~were~ some of you..." (1 Corinthians 6:11) :)

The Lord Jesus Christ came here to save us from our sins .. e.g. Matthew 1:21, not only from the penalty of sin/the wrath of the Father in the age to come, but from the power that sin holds over us in this life (so that we can/will choose to lay aside the old self/old nature, with all of its sinful desires, and put on the new self/new nature instead .. e.g. Ephesians 4:22-24).

God bless you!

~Deut
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#57
First, we must rightfully divide the law as told in scripture into law as God our Father gives us the law.​
There is the spirit of the law, this is the law that is part of our world as God created it. Then there is an interpretation of this law as God wrote it down in stone for Moses to give to train His people. Then there is laws given by Moses to the people in the wilderness to help them understand and obey the spirit of the law, commands necessary for them because they had not been all given the Holy Spirit to guide them so these earthly commands were given to help them. These we do not need any more.​
This is more than goofy, there are not three laws as there is One LORD God...

Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#59
Following OT commandments at the expense of NT commandments is a form of antinomianism.
God wrote the old testament, God wrote the new testament. Are you saying that God opposes God? If we follow God, can it be at the expense of God?
 

Jocund

Active member
Jan 14, 2021
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#60
God wrote the old testament, God wrote the new testament. Are you saying that God opposes God? If we follow God, can it be at the expense of God?
"By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear." Hebrews 8:13 NIV

The OT deals with a number of covenants that have come and gone. The NT deals with the new (current) covenant, the covenant in Christ. The Law is fulfilled in Christ. As Paul said, there is no contradiction.

The current covenant is what those in Christ are instructed to observe:

"Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." - Matthew 28:20 KJV

A large part of the message of Jesus to the Pharisees was that working to the letter of the OT law in their covenant missed the purpose of the covenant. "And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?" - Luke 14:5 KJV