Today’s church’s misunderstandings

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mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
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first day of the week it's in the word of God :)

on ‘the first day of the week’ as the day on which Jesus rose from the dead.” Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, John 20:1, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:9–20 and John 20:19
The first day of the week is incorrectly interpreted. In several cases, it means on one of the sabbaths in the Greek.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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A lot of the comments in this thread are born of ignorance. The most common one is that the Old Covenant cannot give us salvation so it is no longer valid. Saying that shows a distinct ignorance of the Old Covenant and what it set out to achieve and an ignorance of the New Covenant in relation to the Old.

The Old Covenant was a covenant between God and the Jews. It was constituted to allow God to convey what was needed for them to be God's select. The basis of it was the 10 commandments. The rest is not commandmnets but ordinances which built on the 10 Commandments.

The ordinances were not neccesarily part of God's law for the Jews. A lot of them were created by the priests to reflect their interpretation of it all. You may remember Jesus castigasted the priests because they were more concerned about tithing a herb than the weightier matters of the law.

We read that the law was fulfilled in Jesus. Too many people interpret that to mean that the law was cancelled in Jesus under the New Covenant. That is not true. In fact, the demands of the New Covenant are greater than the demands of the Old Covenant. The Jews were required to fulfil the law under the Old. We are required to lay down our lives under the New.

If you have a problem with the Old then you are definitely going to have a problem with the New.

Under the Old the instruction was Thou shalt not....a command. Under the New it is Thou shalt not...a promise. The Old is wrapped up in the new and God promises us that we will obey his word. If that is not the case, what is the point of the new?

Of course the Old cannot give us salvation and does not need to because Jesus has provided that through the cross. The scripture says that God has provided a New Covenant through Jesus which opens the door to the salvation that he offers. Our relationship to the Old is relevant AFTER we have accepted his offer of salvation.

People eschew the Sabbath because it is Old Covenant. So I ask if that is case it is OK to murder which is also Old Covenant. No that is different. How? They are both commands of the Old Covenant. If one is relevant for the New then both are. If one is not relevant for the New then neither are.

FYI, the New Terstament Church did not meet on Sunday because it was a working day so no one could attend a meeting. Their day off was sunset Friday until sunset Saturday.

So if you are eschewing the Old because it does not provide salvation, you have missed the point entirely.
Good post I agree, the Sabbath is a valid commandment, just as thou shalt not kill, or commit adultery

It was Rome and Constantine that mandated the pagan "Sun"day Observance, what would be considered "Blue Laws" today

I'm not 7th day Adventist, nor do I follow the teachings of Ellen G White, but the Sabbath is a living commandment for me today, Friday sundown, to Saturday sundown Amen!
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,828
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keeping the Sabbath is fine , but since gentiles were never under the Law, it is NOT a requirement for modern day Christians.

and, the romans should not have banned Sabbath keeping. that was wrong, and if i were there, i would have kept it to stand with the jews..
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
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keeping the Sabbath is fine , but since gentiles were never under the Law, it is NOT a requirement for modern day Christians.

and, the romans should not have banned Sabbath keeping. that was wrong, and if i were there, i would have kept it to stand with the jews..
Big Smiles, The (10) Commandments Apply To Christians, And All Mankind :)

John 14:21KJV

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Exodus 20:2-17KJV
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
In the first century ad they didn't have an industrial culture the way we do now with emoyment and days off as such.
And they did meet in Sunday. It is written that they did. Acts 20:7, 1 corinthians 16:2 the passage in corinthians makes mention of the Galatians doing the same.

You guys need also to go back and read Leviticus, many of the ceremonial events like wave offerings and such came on the day after the Sabbath. The day of pentecost was the day after the Sabbath, which would be sunday.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
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In the first century ad they didn't have an industrial culture the way we do now with emoyment and days off as such.
And they did meet in Sunday. It is written that they did. Acts 20:7, 1 corinthians 16:2 the passage in corinthians makes mention of the Galatians doing the same.

You guys need also to go back and read Leviticus, many of the ceremonial events like wave offerings and such came on the day after the Sabbath. The day of pentecost was the day after the Sabbath, which would be sunday.
The Church was established on the Sabbath, the (10) commandments apply to all men, not (9) but (10)

Every one agrees with (9) but let's get rid of that Sabbath commandment :)

Acts 13:42-44KJV
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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The first day of the week is incorrectly interpreted. In several cases, it means on one of the sabbaths in Greek.
it is wrongly interpreted? You say, yet have not provided that proof. When Jesus rose from the dead the word of God did not mix words about it. it doesn't mean contextually "on one of the sabbaths "

IT was this Day of the Lord he rose not one of the sabbaths but this Specific Day. The first day of the week is the same day God made life. Genesis 1 and John 1 The sabbath was God's day of completion Jesus said it is Finished on the Cross but on the Next day early in the morning the Bible says HE rose from the dead. The death burial and resurrection did not all happen on one same day.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,851
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The church today says that the Sabbath was cancelled. As proof they tell of Mary’s discovery of the risen Christ on Sunday. It doesn’t make sense that the time of a discovery should change what God tells us He created on the seventh day, or that a time of discovering something establishes when it happened, but that is the way they think.

The Lord gave us a new covenant, one we are told makes the old covenant obsolete. The church tells us that God knew he make a mistake so he cancelled the old covenant. I guess they think that God is like them and they know they make mistakes so they say so does the Lord. As if the Lord was just another human.

The church goes on and on about the mistakes the Lord has made. They say the sacrificial system didn’t work at all for atonement of sin even though scripture tells us it did. When the blood of cattle was used to feed the Lord, like pagans fed idols and not as a symbol of Christ, God hated it so the church tells us it was a mistake of the Lord to establish it.

The church tells us OT scripture can be in error. OT scripture tells us that God guides us to praise and celebrate His plan of salvation for us with feasts for all generations. The church tells us that is an error, that the feasts are to be treated the same way cutting the foreskin is treated.

Scripture tells us to celebrate Christ with Passover, the church says God cancelled that. They made up a new way to do it and named it using pagan gods to inspire them to make up a name for this replacement.

Demons are attracted to the church, undermining it is undermining the Lord. They have done a mighty work, they will still fail in the end.


Very unorthodox statements made here. I have never sat in a church service and heard " God made a mistake". Never.
I have never heard in service " the OT scriptures can be in error". Never.


This very much opinionated and not founded in truth. It is a false sense of guilt to bring condemnation on those who do not agree with one on the finished work of Christ at Calvery, in such a way God's need for payment of SIN and for SIN has been fully done by the precious Blood OF Jesus for EVER!.

You can keep the sabbath but if you don't surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ it will not keep you out of hell.

God only Son is the Only Way to the Father. There is no other way.

It is an insult to God to think HE would be impressed with our ability to keep a day when you broke it once already.

it is a legalistic guilt trip placed on those who trust in God by those who in a setting like this want us to think they can keep the sabbath, News Flash!!!!

YOU do not keep the sabbath.


You have broken your attempts to do so many many times and you know you have.

You could no more keep the sabbath than a Pharisees could.

The false sense of security and masked in an online setting where no one here could validate you keep it.

BUT God knows you don't.
If one is honest they will admit there were times you failed to do so, Guess what?

The day you did you were to die.

Jesus is our Sabbath because we can't do it.
There is no temple, You are the temple.

There is no requirement for the sacrifice Jesus was the final one.

There is no priest to report to, Jesus is our High Preist.

You can try, and the word of God says to let you be,

but don't tell those here and blanketly judge the whole church on your false narrative, that is being a hypocrite.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,492
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it is wrongly interpreted? You say, yet have not provided that proof. When Jesus rose from the dead the word of God did not mix words about it. it doesn't mean contextually "on one of the sabbaths "

IT was this Day of the Lord he rose not one of the sabbaths but this Specific Day. The first day of the week is the same day God made life. Genesis 1 and John 1 The sabbath was God's day of completion Jesus said it is Finished on the Cross but on the Next day early in the morning the Bible says HE rose from the dead. The death burial and resurrection did not all happen on one same day.
That's a nice story, however Constantine's "Sun"day doesn't replace the Lords Sabbath :)

Just as Constatines Easter and Christmas AKA "Roman Saturnalia" has entered the Church, his "Sol Invictus" on Sunday observance has also

Wikipedia: Sol Invictus
Constantine decreed (March 7, 321[34]) dies Solis—day of the Sun, "Sunday"—as the Roman day of rest

On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
“You shall count seven full weeks from the day after the Sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering. You shall count fifty days to the day after the seventh Sabbath. Then you shall present a grain offering of new grain to the Lord .
Leviticus 23:15‭-‬16 ESV

When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:1‭-‬2 ESV
.

On the day after the Sabbath. The new beginning came on the same day as the beginning.

In keeping the Sabbath you have two options, either do it by the law or by the rest in Christ. The law is specific about how to keep the sabbath if you try an keep it by the law. There are very many regulations according to the law, no cooking food, don't kindle a fire, or go anywhere, so on and so fourth.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
That's a nice story, however Constantine's "Sun"day doesn't replace the Lords Sabbath :)

Just as Constatines Easter and Christmas AKA "Roman Saturnalia" has entered the Church, his "Sol Invictus" on Sunday observance has also

Wikipedia: Sol Invictus
Constantine decreed (March 7, 321[34]) dies Solis—day of the Sun, "Sunday"—as the Roman day of rest

On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.
According to wikipedia...
This is why the churches should never have abandoned teaching the history. Constantine didn't change anything about the church. He changed one Roman law. He made christianity a legal religion so it was no longer banned. And in the in new city constantinople he commissioned the building of two basilicas to serve as churches, as an endorsement of Christianity.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
7,851
2,283
113
Very unorthodox statements made here. I have never sat in a church service and heard " God made a mistake". Never.
I have never heard in service " the OT scriptures can be in error". Never.


This very much opinionated and not founded in truth. It is a false sense of guilt to bring condemnation on those who do not agree with one on the finished work of Christ at Calvery, in such a way God's need for payment of SIN and for SIN has been fully done by the precious Blood OF Jesus for EVER!.

You can keep the sabbath but if you don't surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ it will not keep you out of hell.

God only Son is the Only Way to the Father. There is no other way.

It is an insult to God to think HE would be impressed with our ability to keep a day when you broke it once already.

it is a legalistic guilt trip placed on those who trust in God by those who in a setting like this want us to think they can keep the sabbath, News Flash!!!!

YOU do not keep the sabbath.

You have broken your attempts to do so many many times and you know you have.

You could no more keep the sabbath than a Pharisees could.

The false sense of security and masked in an online setting where no one here could validate you keep it.

BUT God knows you don't.
If one is honest they will admit there were times you failed to do so, Guess what?


The day you did you were to die.

Jesus is our Sabbath because we can't do it.
There is no temple, You are the temple.

There is no requirement for the sacrifice Jesus was the final one.

There is no priest to report to, Jesus is our High Preist.

You can try, and the word of God says to let you be,

but don't tell those here and blanketly judge the whole church on your false narrative, that is being a hypocrite.

pardon my spelling, If it affected the context of my post let me know LOL.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,216
1,614
113
A lot of the comments in this thread are born of ignorance. The most common one is that the Old Covenant cannot give us salvation so it is no longer valid. Saying that shows a distinct ignorance of the Old Covenant and what it set out to achieve and an ignorance of the New Covenant in relation to the Old.

The Old Covenant was a covenant between God and the Jews. It was constituted to allow God to convey what was needed for them to be God's select. The basis of it was the 10 commandments. The rest is not commandmnets but ordinances which built on the 10 Commandments.

The ordinances were not neccesarily part of God's law for the Jews. A lot of them were created by the priests to reflect their interpretation of it all. You may remember Jesus castigasted the priests because they were more concerned about tithing a herb than the weightier matters of the law.

We read that the law was fulfilled in Jesus. Too many people interpret that to mean that the law was cancelled in Jesus under the New Covenant. That is not true. In fact, the demands of the New Covenant are greater than the demands of the Old Covenant. The Jews were required to fulfil the law under the Old. We are required to lay down our lives under the New.

If you have a problem with the Old then you are definitely going to have a problem with the New.

Under the Old the instruction was Thou shalt not....a command. Under the New it is Thou shalt not...a promise. The Old is wrapped up in the new and God promises us that we will obey his word. If that is not the case, what is the point of the new?

Of course the Old cannot give us salvation and does not need to because Jesus has provided that through the cross. The scripture says that God has provided a New Covenant through Jesus which opens the door to the salvation that he offers. Our relationship to the Old is relevant AFTER we have accepted his offer of salvation.

People eschew the Sabbath because it is Old Covenant. So I ask if that is case it is OK to murder which is also Old Covenant. No that is different. How? They are both commands of the Old Covenant. If one is relevant for the New then both are. If one is not relevant for the New then neither are.

FYI, the New Terstament Church did not meet on Sunday because it was a working day so no one could attend a meeting. Their day off was sunset Friday until sunset Saturday.

So if you are eschewing the Old because it does not provide salvation, you have missed the point entirely.
I think you are mistaken about the purpose of the old covenant. It is simply leading the people to obey the Lord, and that obedience comes after they ask forgiveness of sin.

The old covenant was given to us by the Lord who loves us, and repeats what the old covenant tells us in the new covenant. The old covenant gave laws in stone, the new covenant repeats those laws in our hearts. The old covenant tells us there are blessings to be had from obedience, we are told in the new testament under the new covenant of blessings to be had in obedience. Read about the fruits of the spirit.

The old covenant told us to cut foreskin, to control diet, etc. The new covenant tells us those commands that helped people understand the law was not necessary for us any longer. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,492
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According to wikipedia...
This is why the churches should never have abandoned teaching the history. Constantine didn't change anything about the church. He changed one Roman law. He made christianity a legal religion so it was no longer banned. And in the in new city constantinople he commissioned the building of two basilicas to serve as churches, as an endorsement of Christianity.
Constantine donated the land what is now "Vatican City", and he built the Roman Catholic Cathedral, He Is The Founder Of Roman Catholicism

Yes he established the pagan "Sun"day as a day to be observed in his empire

Sabbath observation is a commandment, there are (10) not (9)

I'm not a 7th day Adventist, but this is a biblical fact, the Sabbath has never been removed but is Eternal, and will be observed in the New Heaven And Earth, A Day To "Worship"

Just as Pagan Easter, Christmas, Has Entered The Church, "Sun"day Observance Can Be Added To The List

Isaiah 66:22-23KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
Constantine donated the land what is now "Vatican City", and he built the Roman Catholic Cathedral, He Is The Founder Of Roman Catholicism

Yes he established the pagan "Sun"day as a day to be observed in his empire

Sabbath observation is a commandment, there are (10) not (9)

I'm not a 7th day Adventist, but this is a biblical fact, the Sabbath has never been removed but is Eternal, and will be observed in the New Heaven And Earth, A Day To "Worship"

Just as Pagan Easter, Christmas, Has Entered The Church, "Sun"day Observance Can Be Added To The List

Isaiah 66:22-23KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
From one sabbath to the next means everyday.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
6,657
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"The New Jerusalem" (per Rev21:2,23-25) is like this:

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.






[Isa66 - "that from one new moon to another"]
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
Donating land in 323 ad does not equal being responsible for a city built in 1615. That's as absurd as saying that Alfred the Great is responsible for the humanitarian crisis on the American mexican border.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,708
2,492
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From one sabbath to the next means everyday.
I Disagree, the scripture is very clear, from one new moon to another, from one Sabbath to another

Would you also suggest it will be a New Moon every day :)

You can't fight the fact, Easter, Christmas, And Sunday Observance Originated In Rome With Constatine, with no biblical instruction for such

Isaiah 66:22-23KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
The decline of Rome began immediately after Constantine died, (337ad). Then in about 476 under Romulus Rome collapsed when he was deposed by a Germanic King.
However it was Theodosius who made Christianity the state religion of Rome, in about 380.
The Germanic kings that came after the fall of Rome were Arians theologically.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
I Disagree, the scripture is very clear, from one new moon to another, from one Sabbath to another

Would you also suggest it will be a New Moon every day :)

You can't fight the fact, Easter, Christmas, And Sunday Observance Originated In Rome With Constatine, with no biblical instruction for such

Isaiah 66:22-23KJV
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
From one to another includes every day in between. Simple language basic reading comprehension no big interpretation needed.