Today’s church’s misunderstandings

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CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,050
2,370
113
#81
The Holy Spirit agrees with scripture. It does not add or take away. Scripture does not tell us the hour that Christ arose, if it was important we would be told. Scripture tells us just when it was discovered that he rose. It has nothing at all to do with the marvelous fact that Christ rose and is alive today. It also has nothing to do with the seventh day that God created the Sabbath.
yes The Holy Spirit does speak of Jesus and lead and guides into all truth . You are not the authority on how . Disagree with you is not the same as not following the Holy Spirit. The truth is th whole Bible has to do with
God creating man, man failing, God plan of redeeming man back to Him And Jesus making it happen. Jesus is the chief Corner Stone on which all Scriptures lay on. Jesus is my Sabbath who is yours?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,483
1,679
113
#82
yes The Holy Spirit does speak of Jesus and lead and guides into all truth . You are not the authority on how . Disagree with you is not the same as not following the Holy Spirit. The truth is th whole Bible has to do with
God creating man, man failing, God plan of redeeming man back to Him And Jesus making it happen. Jesus is the chief Corner Stone on which all Scriptures lay on. Jesus is my Sabbath who is yours?
Jesus is my Savior, and NOT the seventh day of the week designated as a Sabbath. I put on Jesus and think through Him, that leads me to scripture. I have no, nil, nothing of authority. If I report wrong then Christians should correct me and give the correct scripture.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,050
2,370
113
#83
Jesus is my Savior, and NOT the seventh day of the week designated as a Sabbath. I put on Jesus and think through Him, that leads me to scripture. I have no, nil, nothing of authority. If I report wrong then Christians should correct me and give the correct scripture.
Just going to tell you you can't keep the sabbath you never have and you never will but we are leave you alone as it is still praise worthy you are trying to. Good luck. :) I don't think you want correcting :)
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#84
The church today says that the Sabbath was cancelled. ... The church tells us that God knew he make a mistake so he cancelled the old covenant

The church tells us OT scripture can be in error.
Never heard of Canceling the Sabbath
Never heard any denomination or any church say God made a mistake
Never heard any church teach that the OT scripture can be in error
I have heard of some churches teaching to observe Jewish feasts, but I am not familiar with their doctrine.
I have heard of some churches observing Passover like Jews but I am not sure why.
Never heard of any church that teaches that we are under the Law of Moses after what Paul wrote in Romans and Galatians

My views on sabbath according to the scriptures I have read and understood so far:
The Christians met on the first day of the week but there is no reason to suggest that they were attempting to establish it as a replacement for the Jewish sabbath. This was taught later and became traditional folk lore but I do not believe it was the intention of the first church.
I am not persuaded that "The Lords Day" in Revelation means Sunday. I think John was saying that he was translated by the Spirit into the Day of the Lord (Lord's Day) Greek works both ways (I am not an expert in Greek, I read about this from Joseph A Seiss Apocalypse: Lectures on Revelation) Later people misinterpreted to say that John was calling Sunday the Lords Day and then we find that usage "The Lords Day" referring to Sunday beyond the 1st century. (Fact checks are welcome)
The sabbath was still be observed by Jews and any Jew could continue to do so however It was made very clear at the first council at Jerusalem in the book of Acts 15 that the gentiles were not expected to keep these Jewish traditions.

1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. ... 4And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7And when there had been much disputing, ... 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
...And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: ...19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The Letter to the Gentile Believers

22Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, ... 23And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: 24Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

The Believers at Antioch Rejoice

30So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle: 31Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. 32And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.


Now you notice that he mentioned that the Law of Moses is read every day on the Sabbath in the synagogue and contrasted it with what the Christians were about. So observing sabbath at that time would require observing the Law of Moses which is being contrasted with something different for the gentiles in this council meeting. They were not being asked to observe the sabbath just like they were not being asked to observe circumcision. 21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Also, notice the consolation and rejoicing of the gentile when they read that letter telling them they did not need to observe the Law of Moses. Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.

So take a big sigh of relief and just begin to worship the Lord Jesus Christ right now and say THANK YOU JESUS that I do not have to observe these Jewish customs to be justified. Thank you that I am saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ!
 

pottersclay

Senior Member
Aug 13, 2015
4,609
1,142
113
#85
The Sabbath day that the Lord rested in is not of the old covenant. In the beginning there were no Jews. God said in the ten commandments remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
God rested on the seventh day of creation. All that he created, that is past, present, and future, not just in that week.
The whole history of the world from Genesis to Revelation was created . Times and events were established.
The Lord rested in that work. Redemption was full proof.
Scripture tells us that the foundations were established before creation.
We are asked to enter into that rest....to trust in the finished work of the Christ.
It is a day of reflection on God's master perfect plan.
For one to keep it holy means to keep it Spiritual, sacred, remembering gen 1:1 giving reverence to the creator. Thanksgiving.
A time set aside just for that purpose. To not toil with earthly duties and desires but to have God in full focus on our minds and in our hearts.
We too created in the image of God need a rest from this ever changing world and it's tribulation. It's distractions and pit falls.
To renew our thoughts and strengths, to ask the Lord to help our unbelief, and to shore up our weekness.
To repent from our wrong doing, to see to serve the Lord with all our heart and mind.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,179
10,076
113
#86
If I report wrong then Christians should correct me and give the correct scripture.
I corrected you, and instead of stepping up with an response, you have simply avoided responding.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,483
1,679
113
#88
Just going to tell you you can't keep the sabbath you never have and you never will but we are leave you alone as it is still praise worthy you are trying to. Good luck. :) I don't think you want correcting :)
What a judgment you are making of me personally for speaking of what scripture says. In my defense of myself, I am 96, in a wheelchair, and housebound. There is no way for me to get to any church. I went to Sunday church because that is when my church met. This is besides the point of what God is saying. You are sinning by judging me, it is only the Lord to judge. You are bringing up my personal walk with the Lord, and that has nothing to do with the subject of what God is saying to us.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,483
1,679
113
#89
I corrected you, and instead of stepping up with an response, you have simply avoided responding.
There is no use responding to accusations. We are supposed to be speaking of scripture and all I get is accusing. I just don't want any part of it. I would love to use you knowledge of scripture, not your accusations. I give up on you.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,050
2,370
113
#90
What a judgment you are making of me personally for speaking of what scripture says. In my defense of myself, I am 96, in a wheelchair, and housebound. There is no way for me to get to any church. I went to Sunday church because that is when my church met. This is besides the point of what God is saying. You are sinning by judging me, it is only the Lord to judge. You are bringing up my personal walk with the Lord, and that has nothing to do with the subject of what God is saying to us.
No, I am not judging you and I don't believe you are 96. I bring up the idea of keeping the Sabbath. it is my understanding IF you as I have broken the commandment Once you can not go back and keep it. That is all.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,483
1,679
113
#91
No, I am not judging you and I don't believe you are 96. I bring up the idea of keeping the Sabbath. it is my understanding IF you as I have broken the commandment Once you can not go back and keep it. That is all.
I was born on 5/24/25. That doesn't add up to 96? I wish your beliefs could make something so, especially about this wheelchair.

The commandment is to keep the day holy, the commandment is not "go to church".

If we break a commandment and do not desire to do so we can go to Christ and it will be forgiven and God will forget it.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
8,050
2,370
113
#92
I was born on 5/24/25. That doesn't add up to 96? I wish your beliefs could make something so, especially about this wheelchair.

The commandment is to keep the day holy, the commandment is not "go to church".

If we break a commandment and do not desire to do so we can go to Christ and it will be forgiven and God will forget it.
happy belated Birthday
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
18,179
10,076
113
#93
There is no use responding to accusations. We are supposed to be speaking of scripture and all I get is accusing. I just don't want any part of it. I would love to use you knowledge of scripture, not your accusations. I give up on you.
You made the first accusations. You're bleeding hypocrisy all over the place.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,483
1,679
113
#94
I corrected you, and instead of stepping up with an response, you have simply avoided responding.
Actually, I think you can be compared to Paul. You have a great intellect and your knowledge of scripture is amazing as was his. But you often use it, not to spread the word but tear people down as did Paul. God used all Paul had and the world is a better place because of that. You could use your blessings in the same way.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
5,483
1,679
113
#95
Never heard of Canceling the Sabbath
Never heard any denomination or any church say God made a mistake
Never heard any church teach that the OT scripture can be in error
I have heard of some churches teaching to observe Jewish feasts, but I am not familiar with their doctrine.
I have heard of some churches observing Passover like Jews but I am not sure why.
Never heard of any church that teaches that we are under the Law of Moses after what Paul wrote in Romans and Galatians

My views on sabbath according to the scriptures I have read and understood so far:
The Christians met on the first day of the week but there is no reason to suggest that they were attempting to establish it as a replacement for the Jewish sabbath. This was taught later and became traditional folk lore but I do not believe it was the intention of the first church.
I am not persuaded that "The Lords Day" in Revelation means Sunday. I think John was saying that he was translated by the Spirit into the Day of the Lord (Lord's Day) Greek works both ways (I am not an expert in Greek, I read about this from Joseph A Seiss Apocalypse: Lectures on Revelation) Later people misinterpreted to say that John was calling Sunday the Lords Day and then we find that usage "The Lords Day" referring to Sunday beyond the 1st century. (Fact checks are welcome)
The sabbath was still be observed by Jews and any Jew could continue to do so however It was made very clear at the first council at Jerusalem in the book of Acts 15 that the gentiles were not expected to keep these Jewish traditions.

1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. ... 4And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7And when there had been much disputing, ... 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
...And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: ...19Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 20But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The Letter to the Gentile Believers

22Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, ... 23And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: 24Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 25It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. 28For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 29That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

The Believers at Antioch Rejoice

30So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle: 31Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. 32And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.


Now you notice that he mentioned that the Law of Moses is read every day on the Sabbath in the synagogue and contrasted it with what the Christians were about. So observing sabbath at that time would require observing the Law of Moses which is being contrasted with something different for the gentiles in this council meeting. They were not being asked to observe the sabbath just like they were not being asked to observe circumcision. 21For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. Also, notice the consolation and rejoicing of the gentile when they read that letter telling them they did not need to observe the Law of Moses. Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation.

So take a big sigh of relief and just begin to worship the Lord Jesus Christ right now and say THANK YOU JESUS that I do not have to observe these Jewish customs to be justified. Thank you that I am saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ!
You say the feasts are Jewish, not scripture? And you say that you are not teaching not to believe the OT? That doesn't add up.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#96
You say the feasts are Jewish, not scripture? And you say that you are not teaching not to believe the OT? That doesn't add up.
It's not that hard to understand. Just read Acts 15.
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,268
2,451
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#98
I bring up the idea of keeping the Sabbath. it is my understanding IF you as I have broken the commandment Once you can not go back and keep it. That is all.
Your understanding is wrong :)

We can’t just read the NT without understanding the old. If we do it we will miss what is really happening in the NT.

Example, the woman that was brought to Jesus for committing adultery. He didn’t pick up a stone to kill her. According to the law of Moses she should have been killed! So why did Jesus do something that was perceived as opposing the law?

The previous day before the Pharisees brought the woman to him, Jesus told everyone he is the one they have been waiting for. They rejected him.

The very next day the Pharisees tried to corner him and ask him about Torah, but He teaches them out of Torah. He never opposed Torah.

They asked him what to do to this lady and he quoted Torah to them:

Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

So first of all they only brought him the woman and not the man, and then very importantly He quoted Torah again by saying you without sin cast the first stone, quoting Deuteronomy 19 verses 16-19.

Deu 19:16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;

Deu 19:17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;

Deu 19:18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;

Deu 19:19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.

According to Torah they were bearing false witness and it was on them. Jesus was teaching Torah and we should be careful to judge as we are bringing curses on ourselves if we bear false witness.

After everybody left he said to her to sin no more. He didn’t tell her to not keep Torah my friend.
 
Jan 25, 2015
8,268
2,451
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#99
I hope I'm not caught up in these debates when I'm 96.
I think it is amazing and such a blessing that a 96 year old can still remember this... I would thank Abba Father every day if He allow me to have a clear mind until the day I die. I know 80 year old people that can't remember what they had for breakfast.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
5,998
751
113
36
Australia
I think it is amazing and such a blessing that a 96 year old can still remember this... I would thank Abba Father every day if He allow me to have a clear mind until the day I die. I know 80 year old people that can't remember what they had for breakfast.
Very true!