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TONGUES is a precious gift from God
- Thread starter Lafftur
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S
I see no reason you should stop asking Blain
as someone who has prayed for a few different things with no answer, I know God hears whether or not all the mysteries are solved
on the other hand, all I have to do is remember the many ways God has shown Himself to me and I know in some ways that many do not experience
hugs to you in Jesus
as someone who has prayed for a few different things with no answer, I know God hears whether or not all the mysteries are solved
on the other hand, all I have to do is remember the many ways God has shown Himself to me and I know in some ways that many do not experience
hugs to you in Jesus
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S
We've had a situation in our household this past week that has left me, well........
unable at times to pray with my own words.
Crying out "God! I want to pray about this! I NEED TO pray about this! But I don't know how
And then there's a feeling down deep, near my stomach/gut (only it feels like it's inside even deeper)..........
Now, if you've ever poured a can of soda to quickly and have seen how it rises up and bubbles over - (as I was doing before typing this) I can liken it to that.
Now, as I read through these threads about the gifts of tongues, and all the scriptures referring to Paul, my mind keeps going back to Psalm 81:10..........
I am the Lord your God, who brought you up out of Egypt. Open wide your mouth and I will fill it.
Now, I can not tell you for how long or short a period of time this went on, some times longer than others. But every time I reached that place of "I don't know what to pray" Holy Spirit took over (as I yielded to Him) and I was comforted (He is after all the Comforter).
Now, there was a time in my life when I would feel those "bubbles" start to rise, and would (in my ignorance) push them back down, and not let it come up and out ....... I always walked away feeling defeated. SO i would encourage you beloved brothers and sister, when you feel a little stirring, open your mouth and let it come forth. (and don't listen to any negative thoughts that might pop into your head while doing so!)
It truly is precious!!!
unable at times to pray with my own words.
Crying out "God! I want to pray about this! I NEED TO pray about this! But I don't know how
And then there's a feeling down deep, near my stomach/gut (only it feels like it's inside even deeper)..........
Now, if you've ever poured a can of soda to quickly and have seen how it rises up and bubbles over - (as I was doing before typing this) I can liken it to that.
Now, as I read through these threads about the gifts of tongues, and all the scriptures referring to Paul, my mind keeps going back to Psalm 81:10..........
I am the Lord your God, who brought you up out of Egypt. Open wide your mouth and I will fill it.
Now, I can not tell you for how long or short a period of time this went on, some times longer than others. But every time I reached that place of "I don't know what to pray" Holy Spirit took over (as I yielded to Him) and I was comforted (He is after all the Comforter).
Now, there was a time in my life when I would feel those "bubbles" start to rise, and would (in my ignorance) push them back down, and not let it come up and out
....... I always walked away feeling defeated. SO i would encourage you beloved brothers and sister, when you feel a little stirring, open your mouth and let it come forth. (and don't listen to any negative thoughts that might pop into your head while doing so!)It truly is precious!!!
so very true...I can identify with 'I want to pray but just don't know how anymore',,,,and either peace will come over me or I will pray in the Spirit as you say
sometimes, I am just doing housework or driving or whatever and for no reason (well of course there is always a reason but you know what I mean) I will just be overcome with praising God and singing and being thankful
He lets us know we belong to Him He is faithful. His mercies are new every morning
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As to the charismatic tag and the possible reason it is there - I relooked at the page and see that the author is against pentecostals and charismatics. My reference to the French Prophets is connected to this element of the list:
As to the so called Kundalini spirit - whilst the term has been applied as recently as a decade ago by a New Zealand brother in particular - the book I referenced and suggested you may want to read expressly cites that same meaning only it doesn't append made up words to do it. Hence my use of the expression so called when speaking about the Kundalini spirit. It is a reality that exists in Hinduism that is being applied by the author of the Kundalini Spirit fame - only Jesse Penn- Lewis is writing from the perspective of being a missionary in northern India (the then British summer seat of government [Simla] - today in Pakistan) And Mrs Penn-Lewis made both a rational and spiritual argument and didn't do what far too many Christians do today and imagine that they are being spiritual when they are wholly ignorant of what they are making claims to. Much of what Christians write these days is at best intellectual clap trap predicated on misquoting others to uphold either a cessationist position or else a charismatic prophetic madness.
- Cevennes: After Montanus, the next time any significant tongues-speaking movement arose was with the Cevennol Prophets of the seventeenth century. The Cevennol prophets likewise were outside of the church - their primary emphasis was on politics and the military.
As to the so called Kundalini spirit - whilst the term has been applied as recently as a decade ago by a New Zealand brother in particular - the book I referenced and suggested you may want to read expressly cites that same meaning only it doesn't append made up words to do it. Hence my use of the expression so called when speaking about the Kundalini spirit. It is a reality that exists in Hinduism that is being applied by the author of the Kundalini Spirit fame - only Jesse Penn- Lewis is writing from the perspective of being a missionary in northern India (the then British summer seat of government [Simla] - today in Pakistan) And Mrs Penn-Lewis made both a rational and spiritual argument and didn't do what far too many Christians do today and imagine that they are being spiritual when they are wholly ignorant of what they are making claims to. Much of what Christians write these days is at best intellectual clap trap predicated on misquoting others to uphold either a cessationist position or else a charismatic prophetic madness.
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O
TONGUES false teaching.
When I come to this thread, I encounter rudeness against those who speak in tongues. The author is pro-tongue. She is not rude.
My conclusion is there are those who are not content with allowing others to believe differently than them and will use coercion, manipulation, provocation, and insults to get the upper hand and prove they are "right!"
Not only are they serving self, they may actually be wounding others emotionally.
This ungodly behavior is common on all the Christian forums I've been on.
"A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;" - Isaiah 42:3
- Thread starterMajor
- Start dateDec 24, 2020
When I come to this thread, I encounter rudeness against those who speak in tongues. The author is pro-tongue. She is not rude.
My conclusion is there are those who are not content with allowing others to believe differently than them and will use coercion, manipulation, provocation, and insults to get the upper hand and prove they are "right!"
Not only are they serving self, they may actually be wounding others emotionally.
This ungodly behavior is common on all the Christian forums I've been on.
"A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;" - Isaiah 42:3
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This sadly is the state the church is in, people tend to show who they really are and what they really think online as there is safety behind a screen. All it takes is difference in understanding and suddenly we are no longer adults on a forum but children, if every person thinks they are right especially on a topic such as tongues or the rapture war ensues and we insult mock and attack each other.
From what I can tell many are not ready to be in debates all those who do these things as well use scripture out of context to fit their narrative do so pointlessly as they are not learning not helping themselves or others grow in Christ and are only showing they are not mature enough to be in debates.
I have been wrong in debates but at least I am able to admit it and when I am in the wrong in what I say I apologize this was the manner God taught me to be in debates, we must be calm cool and collected able to not just make our point but also to see the point of others as well then when we are certain that by an unbiased understanding that they are wrong teach them and show them why they are wrong if all logic fails and all scriptures do no good to sway them walk away.
I have to work on the walking away part if I am being honest.
From what I can tell many are not ready to be in debates all those who do these things as well use scripture out of context to fit their narrative do so pointlessly as they are not learning not helping themselves or others grow in Christ and are only showing they are not mature enough to be in debates.
I have been wrong in debates but at least I am able to admit it and when I am in the wrong in what I say I apologize this was the manner God taught me to be in debates, we must be calm cool and collected able to not just make our point but also to see the point of others as well then when we are certain that by an unbiased understanding that they are wrong teach them and show them why they are wrong if all logic fails and all scriptures do no good to sway them walk away.
I have to work on the walking away part if I am being honest.
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the sad thing is the word Charismatic comes from 1cor chapter 12:4 "gifts known as charisma From the Greek.
The word Charmatic out of that Greek word which in context to people from a secular definition :
exercising a compelling charm that inspires devotion in others.
IN context to the word of God seen in 1corthians chapters 12 through 14 speaks of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit which have many operations known as diakonia. 1cor chapter 12:6.
In 1corthians chapter 12, there are many gifts listed not just nine.
The gifts of the charisma but there are also administrations called the "diakonia"
in addtion, there are the Gifts of Christ to the Church found in Eph 4:9-11
didōmi
God has set these gifts in the church. God's gifts are without repentance yet man has abused everyone God entrusted man with(and women). No more than the pulpit. Yet charismatics /Pentecostals are not all out of order, nor are they supporting the abuses of some most see on TV. IF that was the case our baptist brothers are right up there with the abuses too.
The historical context of Pentecostals is found in the book of Acts which is the foundational text along with Mark 16 and 1cor chapters 12through 14. They are known as unit Chapters. Also the Old Testament.
"Kundalini Spirit" is what was created by those who want to equate the working of the Holy Spirit to that of a devil.
The foolishness they use to support this new devil they created, was propped up by those who are abusing the gifts.
There are many reasons why yet a "Kundalini Spirit" is not the main one. Paul never said those in 1Corthians had this "Kundalini Spirit" ' He did say they were abusing the Gifts and operating incorrectly.
There are four Biblical reasons for this wrong use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Paul said 1cor 12:1 in the context, in the text.
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant:
He says this is how you authenticate them.
Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.
Paul then goes on to say :
:4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
THe for ways of abusing the gifts of the Holy Spirit are :
- operating in ignorance/ or unlearned
- in error
- falsely
- without love 1cor chapter 13
The proper way of the use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are also shown:
- operation in love
- they must edify and comfort, and build-up
- they must bring glory to God and not man
- they must line up with the word of God
- they are confirmed by the word of God.
The very simple and biblical way to know. IF that is not happening The Pastor is to correct them AS PAUL IS DOING HERE in 1Corthinains chapter 11 through 14, and Eph chapter 4.
Paul did not have to seek false pagan beliefs or practices as some here use to discredit the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Paul did not call everything an evil spirit, but what Paul did say is :
Gal 6:1-5
1 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual(mature) restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. 5 For each one shall bear his own load.
You see the issue fix it. Don't cry, the devil.
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This is what I was referring to by my use of the term Kundalini.
Kudalini Warning Part I
Kundalini Warning Part II
Kundalini Warning Part III
The maker is Andrew Storm.
Andrew Strom is a leading charismatic.
I also have the gift of speaking in tongues.
What you have written is an attempt to correct me because you perceive a mistaken application.
I wrote a piece addressing these videos by Andrew Storm and drew attention to some of the elements that it contains. That included a part that ex[osed the Hindu presentation of physical enlightenment of the śaiva paṁtha stand of Hinduism. That being the foundation that gives rise to Kundalini yoga. It is Hindu philosophy and it is grounded in a written tradition that speaks of the neurological system. It is well documented and more than likely is only easily accessible at the neuropathological level by trained clinicians or medical practitioners. The book I recommended written by Jessie Penn-Lewis and Evan Roberts explains that distinction very clearly. You marked what I said with an emoji to disagree. What precisely were you disagreeing with?
The opening paragraph of the article I wrote to address Andrew Strom's Kundalini Warning said this:
"A number of times Mr Strom says that we should be concerned that the greatest apostolic and prophetic leaders of the charismatic movement have failed to discern this kundalini spirit or false anointing that has come into the churches. The very premise of what Mr Strom is saying is that the events taking place in many churches, is so much like the Hindu Yogic self-awakening, that the spirit must be the same spirit. For Mr Strom, this means that the leaders of the churches have failed to discern a false anointing. and by force of argument, a false spirit."
I then went on to say in paragraph three - after asking what discernment Andrew Storm was speaking about and identifying the theatre of his concern, being in the church, and not in revival meetings.
"We are not speaking about gospel crusades, where Christ is preached, and where demons wrestle with suspicious men to maintain their hold, so as to keep a person from the kingdom of Christ. We are speaking about the church. So by talking about demons being deep in the bodies of men, we are consigning believers to a temple of Satan in their own bodies. If we insist that visible and somatic outworkings are evidence of demonic activity in these men and women, then that too amounts to a claim that unclean spirits are at work directly through and in believers. That is a grave thing to claim."
I don't default to a demonic explanation for those things that are self evidently contrary to biblical truth - even when they are of an extreme nature. I address physical realities before I address unclean spirits because I am called to the body of Christ and not unbelievers.
Kudalini Warning Part I
Kundalini Warning Part II
Kundalini Warning Part III
The maker is Andrew Storm.
Andrew Strom is a leading charismatic.
I also have the gift of speaking in tongues.
What you have written is an attempt to correct me because you perceive a mistaken application.
I wrote a piece addressing these videos by Andrew Storm and drew attention to some of the elements that it contains. That included a part that ex[osed the Hindu presentation of physical enlightenment of the śaiva paṁtha stand of Hinduism. That being the foundation that gives rise to Kundalini yoga. It is Hindu philosophy and it is grounded in a written tradition that speaks of the neurological system. It is well documented and more than likely is only easily accessible at the neuropathological level by trained clinicians or medical practitioners. The book I recommended written by Jessie Penn-Lewis and Evan Roberts explains that distinction very clearly. You marked what I said with an emoji to disagree. What precisely were you disagreeing with?
The opening paragraph of the article I wrote to address Andrew Strom's Kundalini Warning said this:
"A number of times Mr Strom says that we should be concerned that the greatest apostolic and prophetic leaders of the charismatic movement have failed to discern this kundalini spirit or false anointing that has come into the churches. The very premise of what Mr Strom is saying is that the events taking place in many churches, is so much like the Hindu Yogic self-awakening, that the spirit must be the same spirit. For Mr Strom, this means that the leaders of the churches have failed to discern a false anointing. and by force of argument, a false spirit."
I then went on to say in paragraph three - after asking what discernment Andrew Storm was speaking about and identifying the theatre of his concern, being in the church, and not in revival meetings.
"We are not speaking about gospel crusades, where Christ is preached, and where demons wrestle with suspicious men to maintain their hold, so as to keep a person from the kingdom of Christ. We are speaking about the church. So by talking about demons being deep in the bodies of men, we are consigning believers to a temple of Satan in their own bodies. If we insist that visible and somatic outworkings are evidence of demonic activity in these men and women, then that too amounts to a claim that unclean spirits are at work directly through and in believers. That is a grave thing to claim."
I don't default to a demonic explanation for those things that are self evidently contrary to biblical truth - even when they are of an extreme nature. I address physical realities before I address unclean spirits because I am called to the body of Christ and not unbelievers.
No sir,
I am not looking to correct you nor do I care if you agree. My post was in context to the words Charismatic and the origin of that word from the word of God and what it is Biblically. Second, Mr. Andrew Storm I never heard of in my 40 years of ministry as a Charmiatic Pentacostel Minister.
Again The false narrative of Hindu, Kundalini yoga, were never taught or sought after in what is known as the
Pentacostel / Charismatic movement. Those who sought this pagan practice tried to equate it to The Pentacostel experience which it is NOT. The Kundalini yoga and speaking language is relatively new and hAS MADE IT'S self-known by those like John McCarthur
in the last 5 to 10 years. They have an issue with those on TV Yet John Mcarthur and others maybe should give up some of those 1000$ dollar suites before they start looking for devils.
What Mr. Strom has failed to see is it was not the fault of what he called a "kundalini spirit" but the lack of his ability to correct Foolishness and the flesh, why? Because he was making money. and selling books.
When our Leaders and ministers saw this we attacked it. called it for what it is. They became rebels.
WE should have not taken the focus off man's error and made a devil to attack.
What we need to do to is say Barking like a Dammble dog, shaking so hard that you slip a disk in your back, seeking gold dust, trying to record Angels singing with you in a choir and any other stupid thing man can create was not the work of a devil but the work of Lying men. The devil LOL the whole thing while these abuses happened.
"YOU who are spiritual " choose to write a book on the error and abuse of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit? what hoping a Charismatic would buy t?
I am a pentacostel speaking and praying in tongues and I make no apologies for it. During our church service, you start barking like a dog, rolling on the floor, and dancing like you were in a club in the SF Tenderloin YOU will be sat down and told to stop. And shown in the word of God where that is not well order and discipline and the Spirit of self-control.
We lay the issue at the feet of the person, not create a devil.
I am not looking to correct you nor do I care if you agree
. My post was in context to the words Charismatic and the origin of that word from the word of God and what it is Biblically. Second, Mr. Andrew Storm I never heard of in my 40 years of ministry as a Charmiatic Pentacostel Minister. Again The false narrative of Hindu, Kundalini yoga, were never taught or sought after in what is known as the
Pentacostel / Charismatic movement. Those who sought this pagan practice tried to equate it to The Pentacostel experience which it is NOT. The Kundalini yoga and speaking language is relatively new and hAS MADE IT'S self-known by those like John McCarthur
in the last 5 to 10 years. They have an issue with those on TV Yet John Mcarthur and others maybe should give up some of those 1000$ dollar suites before they start looking for devils.
What Mr. Strom has failed to see is it was not the fault of what he called a "kundalini spirit" but the lack of his ability to correct Foolishness and the flesh, why? Because he was making money. and selling books.
When our Leaders and ministers saw this we attacked it. called it for what it is. They became rebels.
WE should have not taken the focus off man's error and made a devil to attack.
What we need to do to is say Barking like a Dammble dog, shaking so hard that you slip a disk in your back, seeking gold dust, trying to record Angels singing with you in a choir and any other stupid thing man can create was not the work of a devil but the work of Lying men. The devil LOL the whole thing while these abuses happened.
"YOU who are spiritual " choose to write a book on the error and abuse of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit? what hoping a Charismatic would buy t?
I am a pentacostel speaking and praying in tongues and I make no apologies for it. During our church service, you start barking like a dog, rolling on the floor, and dancing like you were in a club in the SF Tenderloin YOU will be sat down and told to stop. And shown in the word of God where that is not well order and discipline and the Spirit of self-control.
We lay the issue at the feet of the person, not create a devil.
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No sir,
I am not looking to correct you nor do I care if you agree. My post was in context to the words Charismatic and the origin of that word from the word of God and what it is Biblically. Second, Mr. Andrew Storm I never heard of in my 40 years of ministry as a Charmiatic Pentacostel Minister.
Again The false narrative of Hindu, Kundalini yoga, were never taught or sought after in what is known as the
Pentacostel / Charismatic movement. Those who sought this pagan practice tried to equate it to The Pentacostel experience which it is NOT. The Kundalini yoga and speaking language is relatively new and hAS MADE IT'S self-known by those like John McCarthur
in the last 5 to 10 years. They have an issue with those on TV Yet John Mcarthur and others maybe should give up some of those 1000$ dollar suites before they start looking for devils.
What Mr. Strom has failed to see is it was not the fault of what he called a "kundalini spirit" but the lack of his ability to correct Foolishness and the flesh, why? Because he was making money. and selling books.
When our Leaders and ministers saw this we attacked it. called it for what it is. They became rebels.
WE should have not taken the focus off man's error and made a devil to attack.
What we need to do to is say Barking like a Dammble dog, shaking so hard that you slip a disk in your back, seeking gold dust, trying to record Angels singing with you in a choir and any other stupid thing man can create was not the work of a devil but the work of Lying men. The devil LOL the whole thing while these abuses happened.
"YOU who are spiritual " choose to write a book on the error and abuse of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit? what hoping a Charismatic would buy t?
I am a pentacostel speaking and praying in tongues and I make no apologies for it. During our church service, you start barking like a dog, rolling on the floor, and dancing like you were in a club in the SF Tenderloin YOU will be sat down and told to stop. And shown in the word of God where that is not well order and discipline and the Spirit of self-control.
We lay the issue at the feet of the person, not create a devil.
I am not looking to correct you nor do I care if you agree
. My post was in context to the words Charismatic and the origin of that word from the word of God and what it is Biblically. Second, Mr. Andrew Storm I never heard of in my 40 years of ministry as a Charmiatic Pentacostel Minister. Again The false narrative of Hindu, Kundalini yoga, were never taught or sought after in what is known as the
Pentacostel / Charismatic movement. Those who sought this pagan practice tried to equate it to The Pentacostel experience which it is NOT. The Kundalini yoga and speaking language is relatively new and hAS MADE IT'S self-known by those like John McCarthur
in the last 5 to 10 years. They have an issue with those on TV Yet John Mcarthur and others maybe should give up some of those 1000$ dollar suites before they start looking for devils.
What Mr. Strom has failed to see is it was not the fault of what he called a "kundalini spirit" but the lack of his ability to correct Foolishness and the flesh, why? Because he was making money. and selling books.
When our Leaders and ministers saw this we attacked it. called it for what it is. They became rebels.
WE should have not taken the focus off man's error and made a devil to attack.
What we need to do to is say Barking like a Dammble dog, shaking so hard that you slip a disk in your back, seeking gold dust, trying to record Angels singing with you in a choir and any other stupid thing man can create was not the work of a devil but the work of Lying men. The devil LOL the whole thing while these abuses happened.
"YOU who are spiritual " choose to write a book on the error and abuse of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit? what hoping a Charismatic would buy t?
I am a pentacostel speaking and praying in tongues and I make no apologies for it. During our church service, you start barking like a dog, rolling on the floor, and dancing like you were in a club in the SF Tenderloin YOU will be sat down and told to stop. And shown in the word of God where that is not well order and discipline and the Spirit of self-control.
We lay the issue at the feet of the person, not create a devil.
How can you know what any man has said or done if you condemn him right off the bat?
It does seem as if your pentecostal credentials have skewed in favour of condemning others who have done an incredible amount of work to address the very things you say you address in locum - when they have put their own charismatic ministries on the line to address the same things. I don't blame Andrew Strom for assigning an unclean spirit to what were incredible abuses of the flocks which he witnessed first hand in the US and in the Common Wealth. He is after all a New Zealander. I presume that you do know that there are 2.3 billion people in the Common Wealth and 340 million people in the US. But that madness you say you rebuke in the local church has spread like a cancer across the entire world. Much of it can be traced back to the US.
Anyways if you were able to tell me what a Charismatic Pentecostal Minister is that would suffice for me. Thank you.
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no sir, not shouting just passionate
just passionate
The reason I ask is because they are two distinct terms. I can't believe that you are using the term charismatic linguistically as you outlined in your Greek parse @#251. If you are then that seems redundant because everyone knows that the Pentecostal movement came into sight by expressly experiencing the power of the Holy Spirit with tongues being a sign gift of the Spirit.
Why would you need to prepositionally append a descriptive term other than as an appellative? If an appellative - then a formal ministry with recognisable origins. Which is where the term pentecostal arises when used to describe a Pentecostal Minister.
I only think it matters because the term charismatic in isolation (say by saying that a brother is charismatic) could be linguistically defined in the Greek parse for anyone who didn't know what that term means - whereas it could also be an appellative term to denote a Charismatic Minister in a formal church environment - yet confusingly as a claim to being a Pentecostal Minister in a Pentecostal church such as the AOG or the Elim. The Charismatic Church is a movement that can be dated to its origins - in rather the same way the Pentecostal Church can. Just not at the same period of history. Two different events and two different effects.
I genuinely think that it may help those who are troubled by the excesses of the charismatic church movement to know how these terms arise. If so then using the term Charismatic Pentecostal Minister does seem important. I guess you write like an old fashioned pentecostal - but feel a need to stress the charismatic - when pentecostal means essentially the same thing - unless as the link that the sister posted - to which link your disagreed with my comment - @#214 and again @#245 was in fact making a singular point. Being tongues - whilst it may exist in the precise meaning of the day of Pentecost when the hearers heard their own language being spoken - and not ecstatic utterances - seems to be set into that link of many proofs of the use of tongues in the churches through the ages of the church. And the flashing label citing Charismatic seems to make that clear. Perhaps that is the reason why some believers have taken to emphasising both the pentecostal meaning in Acts 2 and the ecstatic utterance meaning of Corinthians. I think that is what some opposers have been saying in this OP. But they are then told that they are poor men and need to fear God because they are in opposition to the Holy Spirit.
Then if you read the thread entirely what we can see is another effect. When prophetic ejaculations are cited along with declarative certainty amounting to prophecy - when the gift of prophecy is a rather different thing if defined biblically. Else it may be a word of knowledge - amounting to the same precept of prophetic insight and discernment or a word of wisdom having the same effect - how will we measure that in the local church - how do you measure that? Then when we come to the gifts of men to the church in Ephesians 4 it may become false prophets, false pastors and false apostles. The problem may be much more than a mere fact of brethren barking like dogs and crowing like cockerels or roaring like lions and being led about on dogs' leads and laughing uncontrollably. It may be a more pressing meaning than a fact of decency and order - and it may be the very semblance of what ministry really is and how numbers of millions of believers have fallen into charismatic madness in full sight of the whole church by men and women who call themselves apostles, prophets, evangelist and pastors and teachers. They didn't come as good;es did they brother. They came as named ministries and outward evidence of their power.
So I wanted to post this audio video of less than nine minutes. This is a Calvinist community which I belong to and I ministered with Donald MacPhail who is named in this narrative of Duncan Campbell who was the chief Minister in that Hebridean Revival. In this case this is a meeting on the Island of Berneray. It is truly exceptional because this kind of outworking of God took place across the entire Outer and Inner Hebrides and many thousands of people were saved - of which more than 70% of those saved didn't hear a word of prayer or even the gospel. Imagine that brother. The very end of the video speaks about a village five miles from the church and not a single household was unaffected - simultaneous to that outpouring of God's power in the baptism of fire in the church. People put into trances and not simply one person in a few pews but every single person in the entirety of the pews on one side of the church. On the others side of the church every single person cast about like skittles. Well that's revival isn't it brother. But what is it when it comes into a church and the people who are exercised in the same way are already believers? I think the problem of using labels to describe ourselves when we are determined to emphasis the power of the Holy Spirit by speaking of the gift of tongues - is a mistaken claim and is in itself divisive.
Still that's just me. I'm off to bed brother. Shalom
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sure,
a Pentacostel/Charmatic minister which I am is first aa person who is in a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ saved by grace through faith, and has been in empowered by the Holy Spirit as Jesus said in Acts 1:8 who Idenifies with the experiance recorded in Acts chapter 2 and used in the gifts of the Holy Spirit recorded in 1Corthinains chapter 12 through 14.\\
Pentacostel = one who identifys with the empowering of the Holy Spirit 1:8 and Acts 38
Charismatic = one who is open to the gifts of the Holy Spirit and used in them that are listed in 1Corthinains chapter 12 and Eph 4
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