TONGUES is a precious gift from God

[KelbyofGod]

This is only slightly off topic but needs to be said:

People forget that there are a LOT of blind leaders out there, who teach about God from pulpits, but God has NOT sent them to do so. Subsequently, those who have been "led to the Lord" by those individuals haven't been led to the Lord at all, but have been brought under the influence of false teachings about God and the way of Salvation. PLEASE remember that the scribes and Pharisees were filling the pulpits of Jesus' day...and they still fill them today. Jesus pointed out that (even though the scriptures were read in their synagogues weekly) they were still making their converts two-fold more the children of Hell than themselves.

@Lafftur Sorry for the heavy post in your pleasant and thanks-giving thread.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Rhomphaeam]

This is only slightly off topic but needs to be said. People forget that there are a LOT of blind leaders out there, who teach about God from pulpits, but God has NOT sent them to do so. Subsequently, those who have been "led to the Lord" by those individuals haven't been led to the Lord at all, but have been brought under the influence of their false teachings about God and the way of Salvation. PLEASE remember that the scribes and Pharisees were filling the pulpits of Jesus' day...and they still fill them today. Jesus pointed out that (even though the scriptures were read in their synagogues weekly) they were still making their converts two-fold more the children of Hell than they themselves.

@Lafftur Sorry for the heavy post in your pleasant and thanks-giving thread.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

They that have abused the flocks in the last 40 years and brought an unspeakable effect upon the churches from the pulpits were not harsh men who had refused the gift of the Holy Spirit seeing that they held to an error in their doctrines - it has been men who were kind and pleasant and singularly appealing when they made of a gift of God - the power to rob and steal and wound. I believe that those who desire to speak in the prophetic voice would do well to speak to the Father first and ask Him when judgement is coming and how long it must be endured before He shows mercy. Shalom brother.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

This is only slightly off topic but needs to be said:

People forget that there are a LOT of blind leaders out there, who teach about God from pulpits, but God has NOT sent them to do so. Subsequently, those who have been "led to the Lord" by those individuals haven't been led to the Lord at all, but have been brought under the influence of false teachings about God and the way of Salvation. PLEASE remember that the scribes and Pharisees were filling the pulpits of Jesus' day...and they still fill them today. Jesus pointed out that (even though the scriptures were read in their synagogues weekly) they were still making their converts two-fold more the children of Hell than themselves.

@Lafftur Sorry for the heavy post in your pleasant and thanks-giving thread.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Before Christ, the Pharisees taught the Law. Every Jew was held to the Law before Christ. It's a no brainer why the Synagogues were full. They were under the Law.

Now, after Christ, that example of the Pharisees and Law have no bearing.

 

[KelbyofGod]

They that have abused the flocks in the last 40 years and brought an unspeakable effect upon the churches from the pulpits were not harsh men who had refused the gift of the Holy Spirit seeing that they held to an error in their doctrines - it has been men who were kind and pleasant and singularly appealing when they made of a gift of God - the power to rob and steal and wound. I believe that those who desire to speak in the prophetic voice would do well to speak to the Father first and ask Him when judgement is coming and how long it must be endured before He shows mercy. Shalom brother.

That is yet another reason I teach people to seek God as if their life depends on it and NOT to blindly trust their church leaders. We NEED pastors, evangelists, teachers, etc. But we're not supposed to hand them the keys to our hearts and go take a nap. God said "Let God be true but every man a liar". If we don't realize our pastors can be either accidental or perhaps "mildly self-serving" liars at LEAST on certain occasions, then we disregard the word of God and put ourselves WILLINGLY at risk.

BTW, you point out how much damage is done by those operating the gifts for self-recognition or profit, etc. But on the other hand, are we allowed to consider how much death, deceit, sickness, pain and damage occurs daily because lukewarm Christians fail to "Stir up the gift" that is in them? When will WE feel obligated heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, covet to prophesy, and "covet earnestly the best gifts"... which would bring the necessary deliverance to those dying by the millions while we sit on our couches?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

Before Christ, the Pharisees taught the Law. Every Jew was held to the Law before Christ. It's a no brainer why the Synagogues were full. They were under the Law.

Now, after Christ, that example of the Pharisees and Law have no bearing.

Are you saying that power hungry, self serving, self-righteous, glory seeking preachers stopped existing? Take a minute before answering that one.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Are you saying that power hungry, self serving, self-righteous, glory seeking preachers stopped existing? Take a minute before answering that one.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

LOL, obviously I am not!

But a few bad apples don't make everything they Teach/Preach wrong. But, there is a correct way and wrong way. and sadly, those few bad apples, are doing it incorrectly.

 

[Wansvic]

My comment from a different thread:

I recalled something that occurred years ago that was very interesting. Our church purchased pews and upon arriving to get them a discussion ensued. The sellers shared that they were "Bapticostals." Well that certainly peaked interest. This was their testimony:
The group of men decided to come together and pray to strengthen their walk with Jesus. As they sincerely cried out in prayer, to their amazement, the entire group was filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in tongues. Afterward, they were so filled with joy they could barely contain their excitement as they waited to share the good news with the members of their church.

Sunday came and the men proudly stood before the congregation and relayed their experience. "We were all infilled and spoke in tongues just like those on the Day of Pentecost. We could hardly believe it ourselves, there is no doubt that what happened to us was from God," they said, smiles beaming from ear to ear.

They went on to say you could have heard a pin drop, when the pastor ushered them to the door and told them they were no longer welcome to fellowship with his church.

The men were surprised by the response of their congregation. However they decided not to be discouraged and to go forward and share the true plan of salvation. They began a church and still refer to themselves as "Bapticostals."

I enjoy this testimony because it gives God all the glory! Our Lord and Savior will honor those who sincerely seek Him.

 

[KelbyofGod]

LOL, obviously I am not!

But a few bad apples don't make everything they Teach/Preach wrong. But, there is a correct way and wrong way. and sadly, those few bad apples, are doing it incorrectly.

Thanks for seeing the humor.

If any of us 1) have children and 2) call ourselves Christian... then we ought to be able to see how necessary it is to take all things our leaders say to prayer...and also to have compassion on them.

Why do I say that? Because if we claim to be Christian, then we claim to have the same spirit that our Pastor has... and if we also have children that we love, we know how much we still struggle to raise them WELL even though we present a brave face. It's unreasonable to assume that our pastor always keeps his personal weaknesses out of the message.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

My comment from a different thread:

I recalled something that occurred years ago that was very interesting. Our church purchased pews and upon arriving to get them a discussion ensued. The sellers shared that they were "Bapticostals." Well that certainly peaked interest. This was their testimony:
The group of men decided to come together and pray to strengthen their walk with Jesus. As they sincerely cried out in prayer, to their amazement, the entire group was filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in tongues. Afterward, they were so filled with joy they could barely contain their excitement as they waited to share the good news with the members of their church.

Sunday came and the men proudly stood before the congregation and relayed their experience. "We were all infilled and spoke in tongues just like those on the Day of Pentecost. We could hardly believe it ourselves, there is no doubt that what happened to us was from God," they said, smiles beaming from ear to ear.

They went on to say you could have heard a pin drop, when the pastor ushered them to the door and told them they were no longer welcome to fellowship with his church.

The men were surprised by the response of their congregation. However they decided not to be discouraged and to go forward and share the true plan of salvation. They began a church and still refer to themselves as "Bapticostals."

I enjoy this testimony because it gives God all the glory! Our Lord and Savior will honor those who sincerely seek Him.

I've heard of this happening with groups of seminary students who gather to seek the Lord in the evenings.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Thanks for seeing the humor.

If any of us 1) have children and 2) call ourselves Christian... then we ought to be able to see how necessary it is to take all things our leaders say to prayer...and also to have compassion on them.

Why do I say that? Because if we claim to be Christian, then we claim to have the same spirit that our Pastor has... and if we also have children that we love, we know how much we still struggle to raise them WELL even though we present a brave face. It's unreasonable to assume that our pastor always keeps his personal weaknesses out of the message.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

When I Teach, I present Scripture and before proceeding with how I believe those Scriptures mean, I encourage those listening to take those Scriptures, and to pray/seek God to see if they get the Same Interpretation. I then will encourage them if they see it differently, to come to me and let's discuss it and see if I myself am incorrect.

I've seen way too many preachers/teachers present Scripture incorrectly, while refusing another viewpoint or consider they could be wrong, to want that Same spirit.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

BTW, you point out how much damage is done by those operating the gifts for self-recognition or profit, etc. But on the other hand, are we allowed to consider how much death, deceit, sickness, pain and damage occurs daily because lukewarm Christians fail to "Stir up the gift" that is in them? When will WE feel obligated heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, covet to prophesy, and "covet earnestly the best gifts"... which would bring the necessary deliverance to those dying by the millions while we sit on our couches?

Agreed. The best evidence that I have been witness to in that regard has been in evangelism. Preaching the gospel unto salvation and the call to repentance produces some of the most lively examples of just what the power of the Holy Spirit means and how we are used to exercise our own callings and gifting to the benefit of others. I think we must all know that in some measure. Both severe opposition and joy when men and women turn to Christ and call upon Him in faith. Truly special to see these things. Yet there is also the ministry to the body of Christ which being firstly prophetic must also address the condition of the churches and that ministry is a burden with little seeming release other than the occasional deliverance from harm and bitterness caused by the error of pastors who have misplaced their authority so that the brethren have ceased to look to Christ - and have begun to look to a man. And yet the prophet is to uphold the pastor so that he can teach the full gospel including the Cross and all of its benefit. Both the smooth acceptable face of the cross and Christ crucified for sin and an agreement written in His own blood by which we run to Him with thankful hearts - As well - The rough hewn timber of the other side of the cross and the grave and the death of the old man - a thing which we are not easily persuaded of - yet it must be also proven in the sight of the flocks by those who are given as gifts to build up the churches to the glory of Christ.

So the prophet must first speak to the pastor and if he refuses what the Spirit says to him - then the prophet must be thrown down because he will be the cause of dissension and schisms if he remains to speak of the judgement that is to come and it is seen that the pastor is the cause of it. In the end there will be a rift made by the Lord - until then all we can do is preach at the gate.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

My comment from a different thread:

I recalled something that occurred years ago that was very interesting. Our church purchased pews and upon arriving to get them a discussion ensued. The sellers shared that they were "Bapticostals." Well that certainly peaked interest. This was their testimony:
The group of men decided to come together and pray to strengthen their walk with Jesus. As they sincerely cried out in prayer, to their amazement, the entire group was filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in tongues. Afterward, they were so filled with joy they could barely contain their excitement as they waited to share the good news with the members of their church.

Sunday came and the men proudly stood before the congregation and relayed their experience. "We were all infilled and spoke in tongues just like those on the Day of Pentecost. We could hardly believe it ourselves, there is no doubt that what happened to us was from God," they said, smiles beaming from ear to ear.

They went on to say you could have heard a pin drop, when the pastor ushered them to the door and told them they were no longer welcome to fellowship with his church.

The men were surprised by the response of their congregation. However they decided not to be discouraged and to go forward and share the true plan of salvation. They began a church and still refer to themselves as "Bapticostals."

I enjoy this testimony because it gives God all the glory! Our Lord and Savior will honor those who sincerely seek Him.

Surely, those men were not lying, and still the pastor kicked them out. What do you think God thought concerning the pastor's disbelief and reaction to kick them out? If, the pastor remained in his position at his own death, he basically claimed to these Bapticostals, what the Pharisees said to Christ about the Power of God. Which, if Christ called it Blaspheming the Holy Spirit, a Sin unforgivable, this pastor committed the Same Blasphemy!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?

23 And then will I confess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

 

[Lafftur]

Before Christ, the Pharisees taught the Law. Every Jew was held to the Law before Christ. It's a no brainer why the Synagogues were full. They were under the Law.

Now, after Christ, that example of the Pharisees and Law have no bearing.

Well… keep in mind that the Law does STILL EXIST for those that are NOT “in Christ.”

Those “in Christ” have received the Human Fulfillment of the Law because Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law for us in His own Body and with His Blood, He took away the penalty of not fulfilling the Law for us, too.

Hallelujah!! We have a Savior!!! Glory to God!!! Amen.

 

[VARob]

tongues and interpretation is prophesying which equal Prophecy

That's where we differ. Tongues with interpretation is tongues with interpretation and prophesy is prophesy. They are not the same. When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking TO God, so it is reasonable that the interpretation will be TO God. Prophecy is FROM God.

which contextually in 1cor chapter 12 through 14 is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit

1. the result of Prophesying is edification, comfort, and exhortation profitable for all in the church setting
2. The result of speaking in tongues without an interpretation is self-edification and speaking to God not profitable for all in the church setting
3. the result of tongues with an interpretation is edification, comfort, and exhortation, and profitable for all in the church setting

Both prophesying and tongues with interpretation do the same thing, they are equal in the outcome of edifying.


Both edify
both are inspired by the Holy Spirit
both are used in a church setting
Tongues is a sign to the unbeliever
prophesying is to the believer
praying in tongues is speaking to God
Prophesying is God speaking through a person to people

Generally agree with everything else you stated.

 

[CS1]

That's where we differ. Tongues with interpretation is tongues with interpretation and prophesy is prophesy. They are not the same. When a person speaks in tongues he is speaking TO God, so it is reasonable that the interpretation will be TO God. Prophecy is FROM God.


Generally agree with everything else you stated.

I said Prophesying is not the same thing as Prophecy in context to 1cor chapter 12 through 14.

IF you think Prophesying is the same as a prophecy it is not contextually in the text of 1cor chapter 12 through 14 passages.


Tongues and interpretation of them is the same thing as prophesying they are equal. Prophesying is speaking under the inspiration in the language you are familiar with.

Prophecy is foretelling and fourth telling which is carried along through the scriptures. Prophesying is proclaiming like preaching.

 

[Wansvic]

Surely, those men were not lying, and still the pastor kicked them out. What do you think God thought concerning the pastor's disbelief and reaction to kick them out? If, the pastor remained in his position at his own death, he basically claimed to these Bapticostals, what the Pharisees said to Christ about the Power of God. Which, if Christ called it Blaspheming the Holy Spirit, a Sin unforgivable, this pastor committed the Same Blasphemy!

It is really sad.

There is a difference between a man-made disciple and a Jesus disciple. Jesus told His followers to wait and receive the Holy Ghost before proceeding out into ministry. (Acts 1:4, 8) We see from scripture that receiving the Holy Ghost was accompanied by speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:4, 33; 38) Jesus' initial instruction is extended to everyone as seen in Matthew 28:20; teach all to observe everything whatsoever I have commanded you...

"And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." (Acts 1:4, 8)


Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

It is really sad.

There is a difference between a man-made disciple and a Jesus disciple. Jesus told His followers to wait and receive the Holy Ghost before proceeding out into ministry. (Acts 1:4, 8) We see from scripture that receiving the Holy Ghost was accompanied by speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:4, 33; 38) Jesus' initial instruction is extended to everyone as seen in Matthew 28:20; teach all to observe everything whatsoever I have commanded you...

"And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." (Acts 1:4, 8)


Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

I Agree with You 100%

 

[SophieT]

I agree I think many of us have all spoken very clearly of those that are in error and counterfeit. it is only one gift from the Holy Spirit, yet, it is a gift from the Holy Spirit and should not be mocked or scoffed none of the gifts should be done that way. amen.

right

there are many threads on the subject and some go out of their way to negate this particular gift and will show up on every thread about tongues and deny scripture and insist tongues began in the Azusa street revival and there were none in-between the disciples and then

as others have pointed out from time to time though, this gift in particular is often under attack and as the op has stated, it is a precious gift from God

 

[SophieT]

It is really sad.

There is a difference between a man-made disciple and a Jesus disciple. Jesus told His followers to wait and receive the Holy Ghost before proceeding out into ministry. (Acts 1:4, 8) We see from scripture that receiving the Holy Ghost was accompanied by speaking in tongues. (Acts 2:4, 33; 38) Jesus' initial instruction is extended to everyone as seen in Matthew 28:20; teach all to observe everything whatsoever I have commanded you...

"And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." (Acts 1:4, 8)


Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

exactly

as I have stated a few times now in this thread, the Holy Spirit was not given so we all could speak in tongues

He was given for power ... supernatural power...to fulfill the instructions given by Jesus and those of us who have been filled, know the difference between our own abilities and those given by the Holy Spirit

so it's good to see this portion of scripture being posted again because those who keep objecting to speaking in tongues seem to have forgotten those words of Christ recorded in Acts. in fact, there are people in this forum who state that we should not consider Acts as doctrinal

if you do not believe that tongues are for today, I guess you would make the case for the book of Acts just being a historical document of the beginnings of the 'church'. that way, you can dismiss claims that we are still filled in the same manner and that all should be filled...not meaning all have the 'gift' of tongues which is different than personal tongues used for our edification