TONGUES TODAY

[SophieT]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is the angel Michael.

the New World translation of the Bible is full of error and is not accepted by anyone but JW's

 

[DeanM]

the Bible does not identify Jesus as the archangel anywhere.

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 1

further:

Michael the archangel is perhaps the highest of all the angels. Michael is the only angel in the Bible who is designated “the archangel” (Jude verse 9). Michael the archangel, though, is only an angel. He is not God. The clear distinction in the power and authority of Michael and Jesus can be seen in comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan, and Jude verse 9, where Michael the archangel “dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy” against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus is God incarnate (John 1:1, 14). Michael the archangel is a powerful angel, but still only an angel.

He is the archangel. Angels are created beings. archangel means chief angel. prince among angels, Christ is the King of Kings.

 

[Major]

I am sure they are close to being spot on.
It really does not mean anything to me since i have no dog in that fight.

Really. Since you have no idea what they are, I could in fact tell you anything and as you just said....that will OK with you????

One of the 16 truths of the AOG is that YOU can lose your salvation at anytime after you accept Christ.

Think about that?

What could cause that is what you should be thinking.

Un-pure thoughts!!!!
Lieing!!!
Stealing!......(Any secrets from the IRS?)

 

[SophieT]

He is the archangel. Angels are created beings. archangel means chief angel. prince among angels, Christ is the King of Kings.

right

I mean Hebrew 1 (quoted a portion above) should be more than enough to dispel the error some believe about Christ being an angel

 

[PaulChristensen]

Yes
Many years ago while in prayer one night i was praying in tongues and was tremendously moved upon by the spirit.
I was conscious that my prayers were taking on an oriental sounding language.
It was long ago but i still remember it.

I would venture to say that in some instances a believer could be praying in another country (perhaps asian) and the Holy Spirit has a believer across the globe ,already in the spirit, in prayer, praying in tongues, thst has no clue, be the avenue of that mans escape from something life threatening or some healing or escape.

Supernatural deliverance.

My God is a God of power.

In the early days of Pentecostalism, there were many testimonies of people speaking understandable languages they had never learned when they spoke in tongues. There were testimonies of missionaries who had not learned the language of the people speaking in tongues and being understood. Unfortunately this gave rise to others thinking they could go to foreign countries and do the same thing, but failed. As you can see from my previous posts, I have had one experience of speaking in tongues and being understood by a New Zealand Maori lady who said I was fluently speaking encouraging things to her in the Maori language. In the same church, a friend, in a prayer meeting spoke praises to God in a Ghanaian rural village dialect, understood by a visitor at that meeting. In another meeting, not in my church, when the altar call was made inviting people to go forward to receive Christ, a young Cantonese woman heard a European man speaking in Cantonese, "You need to go forward to receive Christ". As a result she went forward and got saved.

 

[Major]

I have the proof in the Scriptures, and he is also the Angel of the Lord. But it's an overbeaten dead horse in this thread. So, I won't go through it with you. But, you are correct, Jesus is not a created angel, he is God. This is a matter that is going to take people some time to understand. To me, it's slam dunk because the Bible says it. But to others, they seem to be hung up on angels ONLY being created beings and not really understanding messenging.

One thing to keep in mind, Jesus created all things and how did he do it? God just spoke the words ...

YES. In the Old Test. the phrase "Angel of the Lord" refers to the pre-incarnant Christ.

When that phrase appears in the New Test. it refers to "AN Angel". That is because Christ had already been incarnated and could not be both "THE Angel of the Lord" and the SON of God.

I hear what you said but it really is not that hard to grasp IF ONE WANTS TO KNOW.

Colossians 1:16 says clearly, when speking of Christ Paul says...........
"For by HIM (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

See......easy. clear and simple!

JESUS the Christ created ALL THINGS!

 

[Major]

the Bible does not identify Jesus as the archangel anywhere.

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 1

further:

Michael the archangel is perhaps the highest of all the angels. Michael is the only angel in the Bible who is designated “the archangel” (Jude verse 9). Michael the archangel, though, is only an angel. He is not God. The clear distinction in the power and authority of Michael and Jesus can be seen in comparing Matthew 4:10 where Jesus rebukes Satan, and Jude verse 9, where Michael the archangel “dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy” against Satan and calls on the Lord to rebuke him. Jesus is God incarnate (John 1:1, 14). Michael the archangel is a powerful angel, but still only an angel.

It is a real blessing to be on the same side with you!

 

[DeanM]

YES. In the Old Test. the phrase "Angel of the Lord" refers to the pre-incarnant Christ.

When that phrase appears in the New Test. it refers to "AN Angel". That is because Christ had already been incarnated and could not be both "THE Angel of the Lord" and the SON of God.

I hear what you said but it really is not that hard to grasp IF ONE WANTS TO KNOW.

Colossians 1:16 says clearly, when speking of Christ Paul says...........
"For by HIM (Christ) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

See......easy. clear and simple!

JESUS the Christ created ALL THINGS!

Great explantion. Thank you.

 

[PaulChristensen]

I have no desire neither will I challenge your personal testimony. To you it is real and who am I to say different.

However I do want to correct what you said when you said................
"The point I am making is that your belief that tongues comes from hyped up emotions fuelled by shouting preachers and groups around someone yelling "hold on" and others yelling "let go", is totally wrong.

No sir, that is incorrect. What I has said and posted is exactly WHAT I HAVE DONE AND OBSERVED.

If you have not seen these things taking place then maybe you have not attended the same church gatherings that I have in the past 50 years or so.

I have seen exactly what you described. In actual fact, before I started assisting people to move into the gifts of the Spirit, I was in a meeting where someone was being prayed for to receive the gift of tongues. Half the group were yelling, "Hold on brother!" and the other half were yelling, "Let go brother!" The poor brother in the middle was totally confused. I sat there telling the Lord that this was not right, and asking Him to show me how to do it correctly. He showed me that people are ministered to more effectively in an atmosphere where there is peace and quiet, and relaxed over a cup of coffee. Then there were steps of faith to receive anything from God - asking, receiving, believing, and stepping out in faith. He also told me that if people are in a hyped up environment and seeking a sensory experience, the devil is always around to give them one. But when a person is in an environment where the steps of faith are gone through in a sensible, clinical manner, and knows exactly what he is receiving, then they will receive the real thing and not a hyped up flesh counterfeit.

That's how I assist people. I don't teach people to speak in tongues. I take them through the steps of faith, and then when they step out in faith, they allow the Holy Spirit to flow out of them. I have heard some beautiful languages being spoken as a result that I could never have taught them to say.

 

[Major]

He is the archangel. Angels are created beings. archangel means chief angel. prince among angels, Christ is the King of Kings.

Yes my friend. Jesus is the CREATOR of all things including the angels.

The teaching that Jesus and Satan are “spirit brothers” is one of the many false teachings of the Mormons (Latter-Day Saints) and, also the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Both of these groups are properly labeled as cults because they deny essential Christian doctrine. While they use Christian terms such as Jesus, God, and salvation, they have heretical views and teachings on the most basic and essential Christian doctrines.

Please note that most Mormons today will vehemently deny that they believe Jesus and Satan are brothers. However, this teaching was most definitely a belief of the early Mormons and can be found in their material, "The Pearl of Wisdom".

 

[SophieT]

No sir......Paul did not say we could speak in tongues.

There is NO biblical record of Paul speaking in tongues. Here is what Paul actually did say.......
1 Corinthians 14:18.......
"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all".

Now the problem with that statement that in the original Greek the word he uses there is the word "Dialectus" from which we get the word "GLOSSERIA" which means LANGUAGES!

It has been said that Paul was highly educated speaking at least FOUR (4) languages. So when he said..."I speak in tongues more tha ye all"......he literally said......."I SPEAK IN LANGUAGES MORE THAN YE ALL".
Paul did not speak in the gibberish that is seen today but he spoke in KNOWN LANGUAGES.

Just to validate that, please notice 1 Corinthians 14:19 where he says.........
" in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."

seriously? smh

deny deny deny

God help us to believe or disbelieve, as do you. smh

 

[Major]

Great explantion. Thank you.

Thank you for the kind words!

I love it when a plan comes together!

 

[SophieT]

It is a real blessing to be on the same side with you!

I agree with scripture

but glad you got blessed

 

[PaulChristensen]

Paul was no one of the ELEVEN but I can not believe that you are saying that Paul was not an Apostle. Surely, you are mistaken or have not fully comprend the Scripture.
Judas was not included in the ELEVEN because he was dead and Paul had not yet met with and been commissioned by Jesus so your point is actually MUTE.

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),

Romans 1:1
Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God,

1 Corinthians 1:1
Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1 Timothy 2:7
For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

I have a really NOVEL idea. Instead of accepting what you just said.......lets actually READ from the Bible WAHT WAS SAID..................
First....CONTEXT is found in Acts 1:12-15.........
"Then returned THEY unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. 13And when THEY were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. 14

"THEY are the same THEM seen in Mark 16:14 and THEY are the ELEVEN who were the APOSTLES!

Verse #14 then goes on to say that......
"These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. 15And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

Now that is the CONTEXT from the literal words of the Scripture.

Then comes Acts 2:1-6:.........
“And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.”

Where do the Scriptures say that MARY spoke in tongues???????
Now WHERE does the Scripture say that all 120 spoke in tongues. ???????

You see......you are simply repeating what your denominational church has told you what to believe!

The Bible says that THEY, the ELEVEN APOSTLES were the ones speaking. Instead of 120 speaking in tongues.......the people there HEARD what was said in their own language!!

READ it for yourself my friend.

Acts 2:11-14.............
"Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. 14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words".

The ONLY way that anyone can not understand this teaching is because they are willing to believe what SOMEONE has told them instead of believing what GOD ACTUALLY SAID.

I think you are pretty committed to what you believe, and I respect that. I don't think we are going to get much further along this line of discussion, so we are going to have to agree to disagree. Otherwise we will get into a two horse race which will get us nowhere.

 

[Major]

seriously? smh

deny deny deny

God help us to believe or disbelieve, as do you. smh

If what you said if true......then YOU read the same Scriptures I just posted and YOU give YOUR exegesis of them....please!

I did not deay anything. I gave the clear, easy to understand explanation as what is actually in the Scriptures.

What part is a denial????

 

[Major]

I agree with scripture

but glad you got blessed

As do I!

That is all I know to do!

READ what is actually in the Scriptures, believe it, and then live it.

You know.....you do not have to be so combative with me simply because you do not agree with some of the tings I post about what the Scriptures say.

I am friends with even Roman Catholics and share meals with them on a regular basis even though we have about 30 or 40 doctrinal issues we disagree on.

I would say that the Christian thing to be would to post WHY YOU do not agree with a said Scripture and then simply say......
"I do not agree with your Conservative, Baptist theology".

 

[DeanM]

Yes my friend. Jesus is the CREATOR of all things including the angels.

The teaching that Jesus and Satan are “spirit brothers” is one of the many false teachings of the Mormons (Latter-Day Saints) and, also the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Both of these groups are properly labeled as cults because they deny essential Christian doctrine. While they use Christian terms such as Jesus, God, and salvation, they have heretical views and teachings on the most basic and essential Christian doctrines.

Please note that most Mormons today will vehemently deny that they believe Jesus and Satan are brothers. However, this teaching was most definitely a belief of the early Mormons and can be found in their material, "The Pearl of Wisdom".

I can honestly say ive never heard anyone day Christ and Michael are one in the same. I did google it and see that some do say that. 7 day adventist maybe? Anyway, your post explained it much better than I could.

 

[CS1]

No sir......Paul did not say we could speak in tongues.

There is NO biblical record of Paul speaking in tongues. Here is what Paul actually did say.......
1 Corinthians 14:18.......
"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all".

Now the problem with that statement that in the original Greek the word he uses there is the word "Dialectus" from which we get the word "GLOSSERIA" which means LANGUAGES!

It has been said that Paul was highly educated speaking at least FOUR (4) languages. So when he said..."I speak in tongues more tha ye all"......he literally said......."I SPEAK IN LANGUAGES MORE THAN YE ALL".
Paul did not speak in the gibberish that is seen today but he spoke in KNOWN LANGUAGES.

Just to validate that, please notice 1 Corinthians 14:19 where he says.........
" in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue."

glōssa is the context of 1cor 14:18 how do we know that because the first time Glossa was used first at the beginning of the chapter not once but 8 times before saying " I speak in tongues more than you all." each time it is Glossa as it here.

 

[PaulChristensen]

You do also know that what you described is called......"Hearsay" is not allowed in any court room in the world.

WHY is that.

Because all people have the penchant for "" exaggeration "" so as to make their personal account more exciting and more important.

I also have been to Africa. Several times in fact and to this day give an offering to a Church in Uganda run by my friend Sam K.
We have helped him build several building at his orphanage and church.

I have preached there several times and also seen African people come to Christ and speak in tongues. But those tongues were native languages.....ALWAYS.

My friend is a Scottish Presbyterian with a very strong Puritan theology - to the point where he is strict almost to the point of legalism. He has never known to exaggerate over anything and is a stickler for the absolute truth and is totally committed to Sola Scriptura. If he says that he heard bush men speaking Oxford English when they started speaking in tongues, then it actually happened.

 

[SophieT]

As do I!

That is all I know to do!

READ what is actually in the Scriptures, believe it, and then live it.

so fleeting

sad

since you are clueless about how I live, perhaps measure your words with more caution

we cannot both be living as you claim. only one of us lives in belief and does not censure what scripture plainly states and encourage others to do the same.

should have held onto that blessing a bit longer perhaps