Total depravity ? Or ' Singular depravity?
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do you understand what God's plan of salvation is?
you are adding works to salvation and that is not biblical
continue as you will though, because I am not interested in having a conversation with someone who does not seem to understand the rudimentary principals of salvation but yet tries to tell everyone else they are wrong
you are adding works to salvation and that is not biblical
continue as you will though, because I am not interested in having a conversation with someone who does not seem to understand the rudimentary principals of salvation but yet tries to tell everyone else they are wrong
In Calvinism were told about the doctrine of Total depravity, or total inability . But is it true ? How many things can the unbeliever do or not do ?
This is what a Calvinist website has to say on Total depravity.
(Got questions)
Total depravity - is it biblical?
ANSWER
Total depravity is a phrase or name that is used to summarize what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man. It is the “T” in the acronym TULIP, which is commonly used to enumerate what are known as the five points of Calvinism or the doctrines of grace. Because the name “total depravity” can cause people to have wrong ideas about what is meant, some people prefer to use terms like “total inability,” “righteous incapability,” “radical corruption” or even “moral inability.” Yet what is important is not the name assigned to the doctrine but how accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man. No matter which name you use to refer to “total depravity,” the fact remains that when properly understood it is an accurate description of what the Bible does teach on this important subject.
While often misunderstood, the doctrine of total depravity is an acknowledgement that the Bible teaches that as a result of the fall of man (Genesis 3:6) every part of man—his mind, will, emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. In other words, sin affects all areas of our being including who we are and what we do. It penetrates to the very core of our being so that everything is tainted by sin and “…all our righteous acts are like filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6). It acknowledges that the Bible teaches that we sin because we are sinners by nature. Or, as Jesus says, “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.” (Matthew 7:17-18).
End of quote .
Do you agree with this as a professing non calvinist ?
There are many things i disagree with here. Which hopefully we can get into. But how many things does calvinism really say man cannot do ? when we scrutinize this doctrine it raises questions. ' sin nature ',where is that in the bible for one?
But the aim of this post is to look at what a unbeliever is really unable to do if they are totally depraved ect
. It seems as if unbelievers can do pretty much the things that believers do . They can pay taxes , love their wives, stay faithful, be loyal at work , care for their families, give to charities, build hospitals , invent things for good , create medicines, ect . When we think of the things that Christians have done over history we could probably find unbelievers who have done equally good things also .
I listened to something recently that said that Calvinsim is really teaching ' singular depravity " . That when you scrutinise the doctrine of the T in TULIP all its really saying is that there's only ONE thing man cannot do ,and that's ' believe the Gospel .
Thoughts?
This is what a Calvinist website has to say on Total depravity.
(Got questions)
Total depravity - is it biblical?
ANSWER
Total depravity is a phrase or name that is used to summarize what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man. It is the “T” in the acronym TULIP, which is commonly used to enumerate what are known as the five points of Calvinism or the doctrines of grace. Because the name “total depravity” can cause people to have wrong ideas about what is meant, some people prefer to use terms like “total inability,” “righteous incapability,” “radical corruption” or even “moral inability.” Yet what is important is not the name assigned to the doctrine but how accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man. No matter which name you use to refer to “total depravity,” the fact remains that when properly understood it is an accurate description of what the Bible does teach on this important subject.
While often misunderstood, the doctrine of total depravity is an acknowledgement that the Bible teaches that as a result of the fall of man (Genesis 3:6) every part of man—his mind, will, emotions and flesh—have been corrupted by sin. In other words, sin affects all areas of our being including who we are and what we do. It penetrates to the very core of our being so that everything is tainted by sin and “…all our righteous acts are like filthy rags” before a holy God (Isaiah 64:6). It acknowledges that the Bible teaches that we sin because we are sinners by nature. Or, as Jesus says, “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.” (Matthew 7:17-18).
End of quote .
Do you agree with this as a professing non calvinist ?
There are many things i disagree with here. Which hopefully we can get into. But how many things does calvinism really say man cannot do ? when we scrutinize this doctrine it raises questions. ' sin nature ',where is that in the bible for one?
But the aim of this post is to look at what a unbeliever is really unable to do if they are totally depraved ect
. It seems as if unbelievers can do pretty much the things that believers do . They can pay taxes , love their wives, stay faithful, be loyal at work , care for their families, give to charities, build hospitals , invent things for good , create medicines, ect . When we think of the things that Christians have done over history we could probably find unbelievers who have done equally good things also .
I listened to something recently that said that Calvinsim is really teaching ' singular depravity " . That when you scrutinise the doctrine of the T in TULIP all its really saying is that there's only ONE thing man cannot do ,and that's ' believe the Gospel .
Thoughts?
Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
and
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
I wouldn't build a doctrine of total depravity on the above. Then how do you reconcile the following verse?
Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
Total depravity means you wouldn't even love your children. Perhaps that is a clue, that we are not totally depraved. And just for a final punch, from the beginning, God tells us we are made in his image. That alone should tell us that perhaps a doctrine of total depravity may not be correct.
//
Who cares what Calvinism says? Why are you reading Calvinist doctrine?// Because unless you live on Mars its inescapable ,as its permeated into more or less most denominations we could think of . Calvinistic thinking is one of the most dominant teaching there is within Christianity. Most Christians when presented with the 5 points would claim at least two or three of their doctrines.
Who cares what Calvinism says? Why are you reading Calvinist doctrine?// Because unless you live on Mars its inescapable ,as its permeated into more or less most denominations we could think of . Calvinistic thinking is one of the most dominant teaching there is within Christianity. Most Christians when presented with the 5 points would claim at least two or three of their doctrines.
I'll give you a quote from the original article from the OP.
There is a common misconception regarding total depravity. Total depravity does not mean that man is as wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God.
What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6).
While man looks upon the outward acts and judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!”
https://www.gotquestions.org/total-depravity.html
There is a common misconception regarding total depravity. Total depravity does not mean that man is as wicked or sinful as he could be, nor does it mean that man is without a conscience or any sense of right or wrong. Neither does it mean that man does not or cannot do things that seem to be good when viewed from a human perspective or measured against a human standard. It does not even mean that man cannot do things that seem to conform outwardly to the law of God.
What the Bible does teach and what total depravity does recognize is that even the “good” things man does are tainted by sin because they are not done for the glory of God and out of faith in Him (Romans 14:23; Hebrews 11:6).
While man looks upon the outward acts and judges them to be good, God looks upon not only the outward acts but also the inward motives that lie behind them, and because they proceed from a heart that is in rebellion against Him and they are not done for His glory, even these good deeds are like “filthy rags” in His sight. In other words, fallen man’s good deeds are motivated not by a desire to please God but by our own self-interest and are thus corrupted to the point where God declares that there is “no one who does good, no not one!”
https://www.gotquestions.org/total-depravity.html
If you give good things to your children, would the motive behind that be love or sin? Giving good things to your children require judgment. Good judgment is of God and we are made in God's image. How in heaven's name can you just ignore that while you're broadbrush painting man (all people) to be wicked?
