Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil and being Joint Heirs with Christ.

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JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
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#1
In Genesis 2:17 we read: "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". There are two groups of people: The Calvinists and the Mormons who believe it was God's will for Adam and Eve to eat from this tree. The Calvinists because of their belief in man's basic state of depravity and the Mormons because of the NT passage that says we are Joint Heirs with Christ. The problem with this is nothing in the Bible even comes close to suggesting that we should do what God tells us NOT to do. The story makes this very clear that it was the snake a manifestation of the serpent that deceived Eve into doing what God said Not to do. Then people claim that Adam could not live without Eve so he followed her in her sin so that he could remain with her. There is NOTHING of any substance to back up this romantic idea. It just sounds good to people. It looks to me like the story of Adam and Eve has picked up 6,000 years worth of baggage. Jesus warns us to be careful: “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.” (Matthew 16:6) There seems to be a lot of leaven in this story of Adam and Eve. Perhaps we need to verify what we believe and not just go along with what appeals to our sense of romance and what feels good.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,550
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#2
Then people claim that Adam could not live without Eve so he followed her in her sin so that he could remain with her.
It is true that this is not actually presented in Scripture. We don't really know what Adam's motives were. And obviously there is nothing in the Bible to encourage disobedience of God's commandments. But what exactly is your point?
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
776
170
43
#3
what exactly is your point?
Genesis chapter three is about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the snake or serpent. That is the subject of this thread. Life was good for Adam and Eve before they listened to the snake and Eve was deceived. I do not understand why God felt they needed to be tested and why He planted the tree in the first place.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
28,699
7,196
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#4
Some people are very much invested in "romanticizing" this chapter concerning A&E and on the face of it, I see nothing inherently wrong with it, even to the point where we are actually told to lay down our lives for others, which would fit Adam in a way in that "romantic" narrative. However, claiming that it was God's will for Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil really does seem like quite a stretch, considering the fact that they also had the choice of eating from the Tree of Life. Yes, God knew the choice they would make, and had made provision for that outcome, for Jesus was slain from before the foundation of the world, as we know. I make a distinction between the permissive will of God and His sovereign and moral will. Allowing for something to happen is not the same as causing that thing to happen. The whole "God desires people to do evil" idea is repugnant to me.
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
776
170
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#5
God knew the choice they would
There is talk about the foundation of the world and people that their name is written in the book of life. Some people believe that everyone is written in the book of life but some people have that taken away from them when their name is blotted out of the book. "May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous." (Psalm 69:28)

Revelation 3:5
Like them, the one who is victorious will be dressed in white. And I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
28,699
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#6
@JohnR7 That is a bad edit in your quote of what I said. Could you please fix it up a bit? Thanks. :)

Hopefully you can and will. I will delete this message before my edit time is up if you do :D
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
776
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#7
The whole "God desires people to do evil" idea is repugnant to me.
We are told in Psalm 139:16 that God writes the book of our life before we are even born. Even before we get to the womb. Now we are told that God sees His plan and purpose for us. He works in our life to accomplish His will and desire for us. A lot of the conviction we experience is a work of the devil to harass us. God wants to build up, strengthen and encourage. The devil want to tear people down in an attempt to discourage and destroy them. "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." (John 10 10)
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
776
170
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#8
@JohnR7 That is a bad edit in your quote of what I said. Could you please fix it up a bit? Thanks. :)

Hopefully you can and will. I will delete this message before my edit time is up if you do :D
There is an edit button but it is not working.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
28,699
7,196
113
#9
There is an edit button but it is not working.
You only get five minutes to edit, unless it is a browser issue that does not allow for it?
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,538
1,412
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#10
It’s possible the tree provided man a choice in not forcing man to love n serve God but willingly.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
10,550
4,037
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#11
I do not understand why God felt they needed to be tested and why He planted the tree in the first place.
Because human beings have free will, they need to be tested. Had God created robots there would be no need for testing.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
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#12
The tree also doesn't seem to be a bad thing, humans couldn’t eat from it but nothing said animals couldn’t
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
776
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#13
The tree also doesn't seem to be a bad thing, humans couldn’t eat from it but nothing said animals couldn’t
Some people say the issue is: It is good to do what God says to do and not good to disobey God. The story of Satan seems to go back 200 billion years to Pangaea when the dinosaurs began to devour each other. We are told that Satan got thrown out of Heaven along with a third of the angles that followed him in his rebellion. "Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth." (Rev12:4) So we are told that the serpent wanted to destroy God's creation. Murder goes back long before Adam and Eve. The bodies we find were killed from a crushed skull with a rock or they find a arrow head or spear in them. Cheddar man is an example of this. Cain talks about this when he says: " whoever finds me will kill me.” Genesis 4:5) Sort of makes me wonder why people think Adam and Eve were the only people on the earth when clearly this is not the case. It would seem clear that sin or willful disobedience entered the world though Adam and death from sin. "just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin" (Romans 5:12)
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,538
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#14
Some people say the issue is: It is good to do what God says to do and not good to disobey God. The story of Satan seems to go back 200 billion years to Pangaea when the dinosaurs began to devour each other. We are told that Satan got thrown out of Heaven along with a third of the angles that followed him in his rebellion. "Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth." (Rev12:4) So we are told that the serpent wanted to destroy God's creation. Murder goes back long before Adam and Eve. The bodies we find were killed from a crushed skull with a rock or they find a arrow head or spear in them. Cheddar man is an example of this. Cain talks about this when he says: " whoever finds me will kill me.” Genesis 4:5) Sort of makes me wonder why people think Adam and Eve were the only people on the earth when clearly this is not the case. It would seem clear that sin or willful disobedience entered the world though Adam and death from sin. "just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin" (Romans 5:12)
Well you know as well as I do that’s deep and some might not consider things like that, nonetheless rather young or old there’s one thing that stands out in scripture as far as the creation of man. that is at some movement in the past man became a living soul thus set apart from anything else created.
 

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
776
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#15

JohnR7

Active member
Dec 30, 2019
776
170
43
#16
some might not consider things like that
There are going to be things that a lot of people will not study and understand until they get to Heaven. We are to be taught by the Holy Spirit of God. He is our Teacher and our Guide. Some people do not want to live a Holy Sanctified life before God. OR perhaps they can not because they are busy to work and make money and take care of their family.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,538
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#17
The real difference is the breath of life in Genesis 2:7 "Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being". God planted a garden in Eden so Adam and Eve had their own biodiverse eco system. They were food producers. Before them man was a hunter gather.
Yes I agree so it appears to me that the breath of life is something more than breathing air and blood pumping through the body
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,538
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#18
There are going to be things that a lot of people will not study and understand until they get to Heaven. We are to be taught by the Holy Spirit of God. He is our Teacher and our Guide. Some people do not want to live a Holy Sanctified life before God. OR perhaps they can not because they are busy to work and make money and take care of their family.
might be and another could be fear
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,043
602
113
#19
In Genesis 2:17 we read: "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". There are two groups of people: The Calvinists and the Mormons who believe it was God's will for Adam and Eve to eat from this tree. The Calvinists because of their belief in man's basic state of depravity and the Mormons because of the NT passage that says we are Joint Heirs with Christ. The problem with this is nothing in the Bible even comes close to suggesting that we should do what God tells us NOT to do. The story makes this very clear that it was the snake a manifestation of the serpent that deceived Eve into doing what God said Not to do. Then people claim that Adam could not live without Eve so he followed her in her sin so that he could remain with her. There is NOTHING of any substance to back up this romantic idea. It just sounds good to people. It looks to me like the story of Adam and Eve has picked up 6,000 years worth of baggage. Jesus warns us to be careful: “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.” (Matthew 16:6) There seems to be a lot of leaven in this story of Adam and Eve. Perhaps we need to verify what we believe and not just go along with what appeals to our sense of romance and what feels good.
I asked God about that chapter and He told me something different. The tree is allegorical. Separation happens from being taught right from wrong, like we train a pet. Then when doing wrong, what will always happen, guilt occurs. Guilt is the fruit of knowing right from wrong. Forgiveness is what restores us. Having a clear conscience helps us hear God clearly. The lesson is spiritually discerned. There are factual parts but the tree is a fable.
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,538
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#20
Tree a fable? huh that’s interesting so God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden on a fable?