TRIBULATION LIE

[Bladerunner]

If folks would ever get the picture of how dangerous a false pre-trib rapture would be, then maybe they would take the time to really see what the bible is saying about the return of Christ to gather the church. The biggest lie spread by the false pre-trib rapture folks is that the tribulation is the wrath of God and that during the tribulation period, after the church is gone(according to them) vast numbers of people will be saved. They have to claim vast numbers of folks are saved during the tribulation in order to maintain the false pre-trib rapture because Rev tells us of vast numbers of Christians who came through the great tribulation. Of course it would be easier to just believe the church has to go through the tribulation as Jesus taught, but they will have none of that. Anyway, here is the pre-trib scenario, just before the Antichrist and the tribulation appear and begin, the church will be raptured, all the Christians will be GONE. Now the Antichrist begins his reign and demands that EVERYONE take the mark of the Beast, since there are no Christians left(according to pre-trib), and ONLY Christians will refuse to take the mark, therefore everyone in the world takes the mark. Also, after one takes the mark they cannot be saved. So we have a real problem here for an honest person, how do you get vast numbers of saved persons out of a world that contains only people that have the mark of the Beast??? You don't of course because the tribulation saints in Rev 7 were saints before the tribulation and did not get gathered until AFTER the tribulation.

I at one time thought you were a learned man but now???????At the very least you have not read the Bible but probably been coached on how to try and get other to question their faith. Knowing all the time like the Seeds in the rocks, Faith has many different levels but only one will get you to the Rapture. You of Course know this and want people to change. There can be no other reason for you laminations of the truth.

SO SAD

 

[Bladerunner]

He can't help himself, it is all he has to hold on to his faith.

What faith?

 

[Bladerunner]

Is that the best you can come up with?? For crying out loud...PROVE ME WRONG!!! You are suppose to be the experts on the pre-trib and why it is true. Take my story apart...waiting.

WE have already heard this sad song before and have given you ample scriptures and PROOF. But you refuse to see it or accept it... OK,,,,WIth me,,,,It is of course your soul but quit trying to drag everybody else down with you.

 

[Bladerunner]

I really like how pre-tribbers are experts on scripture and anyone who disagrees is stupid and knows nothing.....! Or should I use the word understanding.........yeah....whatever....!

because you not on here trying to drag everyone else down with you. It is your opinion and I Respect that... But in his case, He keeps on trying to trash the pre-trib version and WHAT FOR?????to WHAT END????? to make himself look good?????? No I think His version is more sinister than that.

You are not?

 

[Bladerunner]

well one thing is clear, 'the great tribulation' has already mainly taken place. It commenced around 70ad and has gone on ever since. It was tribulation on the Jews. God's wrath came on the world around the same time (Rom 1.18),

You cannot be serious???????? the Tribulations have already Happened????? Another preterist

 

[dcontroversal]

because you not on here trying to drag everyone else down with you. It is your opinion and I Respect that... But in his case, He keeps on trying to trash the pre-trib version and WHAT FOR?????to WHAT END????? to make himself look good?????? No I think His version is more sinister than that.

You are not?

My statement had nothing to do with him.....just generically applied as this seems to be the case......pre-trib believers generally think that those who say post trib/pre-wrath are stupid and don't have a clue or are ignorant.....I have seen his posts and disagree that belief in a particular ingathering has anything to do with salvation and or fellowship

 

[Laish]

What faith?

Come on brother. I get you disagree with him but to question his faith?
I think that that is a bit overboard.
Blessings
Bill

 

[maxwel]

Why not? That's what discussion boards are for, aren't they? I certainly feel I can prove PreTrib doctrine wrong. It's not a "logical fallacy" to ask someone to prove something wrong. Give it a shot, Dino. Show some scripture which contradicts a post-"great tribulation" rapture.

As an aside, I'm not sure I have 100% agreement with Sam. I'd have to look more closely.

Right. You're kind of applying a 'hyper-literal' interpretation to my somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments. But yes...there is a HUGE emphasis on prophecy in the Bible. It is a balance that is quite absent at this time on this Bible forum.

There you go! You're more or less on the right track...your silly hyper-literal application notwithstanding.

Yes, you are. You are completely obligated. I want to force people to discuss the topics I stipulate. You nailed it, buddy.

Anyway...I'm just addressing the strange reality...that when someone proposes a discussion about the error of PreTrib...people act as though that is a moral wrong.

"I want to force people to discuss the topics I stipulate."
- MattTooFor


1. This is a public forum; you can't actually force anyone to do anything.

2. This is a public forum; no one has to be even remotely acquiescent to you.

3. This is a public forum; the fact you're here to "force" people to do something makes you sound extraordinarily manipulative.

4. ADMITTING that you're here to "force" people to do something... that just makes it sound like you're so used to being manipulative, that you no longer even care that everyone knows.

All in all, this was an entirely disturbing comment.
I give you 9 out of 10 for "controversial and attention grabbing."
Well done.

 

[MattTooFor]

All in all, this was an entirely disturbing comment.

I was kidding!

 

[samuel23]

Let the die hard false pre-trib folks ride their horse right into the judgment seat of God because it seems obvious to me after so many years that nothing will cause them to dismount. I am writing to those who take seriously the condition of standing before God and having to answer for rejecting the teaching of Jesus about His return and accepting the doctrine of Satan about Christ return. All I can tell those who really want to be in the truth of God about Christ return, do what the Lord told me to do, forget what people are saying and honestly see what the bible is saying.

 

[samuel23]

Some folks wonder, why do you have to get so aggressive? Truth, I hate to see what is going to happen at the judgment of those professing Christians who have rejected Christ teaching about His return. I have known the Lord for 58 years and have studied the bible daily for 54 years, I know something about God and His word. Those who think they can reject Jesus teaching of His return to rapture the church in Matt 24 and Mark 13, and all God is going to do at the judgment is roll His eyes(as a pre-trib person said) are completely out of touch with reality. Read the story Jesus gave about His return to rapture the church, Jesus return and rapture was AFTER the tribulation...NOT BEFORE. Now search the bible and see if you will find any place where it says that Jesus will return BEFORE the tribulation. Now think about what will happen to all those folks who will go into the tribulation wondering WHY Jesus did not rapture them.

 

[GaryA]

Let the die hard false pre-trib folks ride their horse right into the judgment seat of God because it seems obvious to me after so many years that nothing will cause them to dismount.

Yes, it definitely seems that way. However, after twenty-something years, my brother finally "came around" to the truth.

Praise the Lord!

So --- "miracles can happen..."

I am writing to those who take seriously the condition of standing before God and having to answer for rejecting the teaching of Jesus about His return and accepting the doctrine of Satan about Christ return.

Or, more importantly, perpetuating it.

All I can tell those who really want to be in the truth of God about Christ return, do what the Lord told me to do, forget what people are saying and honestly see what the bible is saying.

And, this is really all we post-tribbers are trying to get pre-tribbers to do...

 

[Ahwatukee]

Those who think they can reject Jesus teaching of His return to rapture the church in Matt 24 and Mark 13,

As I said earlier, the reason for your error is that you don't understand the difference between the gathering of the church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Nor do you understand the that there is a difference between the church and he great tribulation saints. For example, Matt.24:15 refers to the abomination, which according to Daniel 9:27 will take place in the middle of the seven years. If what you were saying was true, it would put the church as being on the earth in the middle of God's wrath, which we are not appointed to suffer.

Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not overcome it." Therefore, the church cannot be on the earth during the time of the antichrist/beasts reign to prevail against the church. It is the great tribulation saints, those who become believers after the church has been removed and during the time of God's wrath, that are in view during the time of the antichrist/beast - Rev.13:7

 

[GaryA]

Now think about what will happen to all those folks who will go into the tribulation wondering WHY Jesus did not rapture them.

A great many of them will probably experience intense mental and emotional trauma for not having prepared themselves sufficiently...

 

[Ahwatukee]

Yes, it definitely seems that way. However, after twenty-something years, my brother finally "came around" to the truth.

How sad! Now, instead of looking for the blessed hope, the imminent appearing of the Lord and the gathering of the church, which the Lord promised, your brother, along with you and others, are looking for the revealing of the antichrist and God's wrath to come first.

 

[Johnny_B]

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

 

[GaryA]

How sad! Now, instead of looking for the blessed hope, the imminent appearing of the Lord and the gathering of the church, which the Lord promised, your brother, along with you and others, are looking for the revealing of the antichrist and God's wrath to come first.

I wish people would stop saying crap like this!

Both my brother and I have never stopped looking forward to the 'blessed hope'; only, we know a few things must happen before then...

 

[Ahwatukee]

A great many of them will probably experience intense mental and emotional trauma for not having prepared themselves sufficiently...

Once again, the true believers faith is not based on when the appearing of the Lord to gather the church takes place, but on the shed blood of Christ. For the sake of this debate, if the gathering of the church were to take place after the revealing of the antichrist, as you proclaim, true believers in Christ would know who he was immediately and that because we would know from scriptures who he was, as well as the false prophet. Therefore, if end-time events happened the way that you proclaim, true believers in Christ would not experience mental and emotional trauma, but would immediately go to prayer asking God to give us strength, knowing the horrors of God's wrath and the threat that the beast would pose to all believers.

However, that belief would fly in the face of when Jesus said "the gates of Hades shall not prevail" against the church. For if the church were here during the time of the beast and was who was in view in Rev.13:7, then that would mean that the powers of darkness would prevail against the church.

Instead of trusting in the Lord's promise, that he rescues us from the coming wrath, instead you look for the antichrist and God's wrath.

 

[dcontroversal]

I wish people would stop saying crap like this!

Both my brother and I have never stopped looking forward to the 'blessed hope'; only, we know a few things must happen before then...

Not to mention that the wrath is not stated as being here until the 7th trump.......post TRIBULATION.......that is!

 

[GaryA]

Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not overcome it." Therefore, the church cannot be on the earth during the time of the antichrist/beasts reign to prevail against the church.

However, that belief would fly in the face of when Jesus said "the gates of Hades shall not prevail" against the church. For if the church were here during the time of the beast and was who was in view in Rev.13:7, then that would mean that the powers of darkness would prevail against the church.

You might want to re-think all of this...

If, at any point in time, the church were no longer present on the Earth - the next person who entered hell - would mean - that the gates of hell prevailed against the church.

Think about it...