Trigger for the Tribulation

[MattforJesus]

Please post your opinion on what triggers the Tribulation.

I say that everything evolves around the Temple. This one that promotes peace and security is done with deceit on his mind. World is pushing for a two state solution and that possibility is high on my list. There is plenty of acres on the Temple Mount for the temple to be built on the same platform. if it was to be built anywhere else in Jerusalem it would have already happened.

A person who can bring such a covenant to bear with many leaders/nations would be looked at as a potential messiah in the eyes of the jews.

First seal is opened at the announcement of the temple being built in Jerusalem IMO

People say what about the end times and all you have to know is the new age movement.

The new age movement triggers the tribulation for the New Age Christ, man of sin is of the new age movement.

Because of evolution they started interpreting the Bible and all religions according to the occult and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual and acknowledge no personal God but honor the God of forces the evolutionary process.

They believe the universe has a conscience and Alice Bailey the biggest prophet of the new age movement wrote a book called Conscience of the Atom so they are doing what they believe nature wants them to do and that is get rid of all people that oppose them for they are upsetting the evolutionary process, and the balance and harmony of the earth.

They believe they are a disease on the planet that they have to get rid of like the body gets rid of diseases in the body.

They will be terribly cruel to all who oppose them and the beast kingdom the worse in physical cruelty than any kingdom before it which is symbolized by it having the feet of a bear which represents Medo-Persia whose chief mode of operation was physical cruelty in war.

Because they now interpret the Bible and religion according to the occult and evolution it changed the way they view religion and reality and that is why the world will change to adapt to that new reality.

The new age movement triggers the tribulation but it is already planned out and not something that suddenly sprang up.

They want to establish the new age movement in the world as standard religion and stop anything taught contrary to it.

The New Age Christ will establish peace in the Middle East and work in the world as a great man of peace and the biggest influence in the world and will push the agenda of the new age movement until the world rebels against God.

And then they will go against all people who oppose them which is the great tribulation which there is no middle ground then but you are either with God or with the New Age Christ for God will send strong delusion to all people who love not the truth to follow the man of sin.

The tribulation is all about changing the world belief system to there is no personal God, and they are still evolving which the Bible says the man of sin will think to change times and laws which he will try to change the operation of the world to it is all about people with no higher power above them.

It is already planned out before this time for this to happen so nothing suddenly triggers the tribulation but it is already planned out to happen by the new age movement.

The new age movement the beginning of the end.

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

God warns the saints of the new age movement, and their interpretation of the Bible based on the occult, and evolution, and people are still evolving to be spiritual provided by the New Age Christ, and Jesus is not Lord and Savior, but a good teacher and love, and the Christ conscience came upon him, and he evolved to be an ascended master, and believe in no personal God, but honor the God of forces, or the power of nature as their higher power, the evolutionary process, and the New Age Christ is the final teacher and he will evolve to be greater than Jesus, and share this power with all people who follow him.

They will forbid to marry for a man and a woman for population reduction, and command to abstain from meats, reverence of nature, mother earth.

The new age movement will pave the way to the beast kingdom for all people who do not love God where they will take the mark of the beast, and then repentance and salvation are no longer available to the world, and God will end sin on earth, and have His people will Him.

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables(2 Timothy 4:2-4).

The time will come when the world will not want to hear the truth of the Bible, but want to hear it according to their own lusts the new age movement.

God is allowing it to happen and giving the world 7 years to have their way and rebel against Him for it is time for Him to end sin on earth and put an end to the rulership of people on earth.

Because God is allowing it to happen it allows the devil to work in the world more than in the past which at the middle of the 7 years period Satan is off his leash and deceives all people who do not love the truth which is symbolic of the beast coming out of the bottomless pit.

When Satan is chained he is thrown in to the bottomless pit for 1000 years which he is back on a leash but this time he cannot influence the world at all until the end of the 1000 years and then he is loosed from the bottomless pit which he is off a leash and deceives the people that Jesus and the saints rule over.

 

[GaryA]

No, it does show GT starting at the 42 months and when the 7th trump sounds the 42 months are over. It coincides with two witnesses 1260 days also ending the same basic time.

Show me.

You cannot align one span of time with another just because you believe they are both the same length.

There has to be sufficient common 'event' details described in both to corroborate them being the same span of time.

 

[GaryA]

So he is speaking to a people. who are alive at the time that event takes place

No - He is making a "back-reference" to [that which was] "spoken of by Daniel the prophet" - in order to illustrate what occurred at the time of the [actual, real] AoD (167 BC) - which is stated plainly in Luke 21:20.

 

[GaryA]

Jesus said their would be

If you can;t listen to him

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 1

when you see. You can;t see it if it happened a few centuries ago

What He was telling them to 'see' was not the [real, actual] AoD itself - the Jews knew it had already occurred.

 

[GaryA]

If you do not believe that Matthew 24:15-20 / Mark 13:14-18 / Luke 21:20-23a are all talking about the very same exact thing --- then you need to correct that error first...

 

[ewq1938]

Show me.

You cannot align one span of time with another just because you believe they are both the same length.

There has to be sufficient common 'event' details described in both to corroborate them being the same span of time.

As I said, they both end at 7th trump so they share that in common. Also, when time is related to God's people, days are used. When the same period is related to enemy, months are used. That's why the same period is described differently.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Well, the time-period referred to in Rev13:5-7[1] ("42 months") is the same time-period [not to mention, same "bad guy"] being spoke of in Dan7:25c[27,20-23] but using a different phrasing altogether to speak of it / that time-period. = )






[same time-period... same "bad guy"... same "saints"]

 

[GaryA]

As I said, they both end at 7th trump so they share that in common. Also, when time is related to God's people, days are used. When the same period is related to enemy, months are used. That's why the same period is described differently.

Show me where in the Bible it indicates that both end at the 7th trump.

 

[ewq1938]

Show me where in the Bible it indicates that both end at the 7th trump.

Read all of Rev 11. The 7th trump is second coming. Obviously the ministry of two witnesses would not continue because there is no further need and we also know the second coming is when the ruling of world by the beast is over because beast is destroyed that day. Pretty common knowledge.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Nah... disagree with that timing ^ ... The MID-trib (when "1260 days" are yet remaining) is at the "5th Trumpet / 1st Woe unto the earth"... and the "2W's 1260 days" CONCLUDE at the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe" (and these two Trumpets [5 & 6] are NOT "1260 days" APART).

The "2W's 1260 days" straddle the two halves (as the Trumpets do--their "1260 day" ministry being during SIX of the Trumpets [1-6]).

The "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe / 1st Vial" is not the "Second Coming / RETURN" of Christ. Nope, there's still 6 more Vials to unfold before that point.

 

[GaryA]

Read all of Rev 11. The 7th trump is second coming. Obviously the ministry of two witnesses would not continue because there is no further need and we also know the second coming is when the ruling of world by the beast is over because beast is destroyed that day. Pretty common knowledge.

Show me where in the Bible it indicates the 42 months is "the ruling of world by the beast" in such a way as to indicate that the 42 months is exactly in start-to-finish alignment with it.

 

[GaryA]

The "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe / 1st Vial" is not the "Second Coming / RETURN" of Christ. Nope, there's still 6 more Vials to unfold before that point.

The "Second Coming / RETURN" of Christ occurs before [even] the first vial is "poured out" onto the earth - because, Jesus Himself is the One Who "dispenses" the vials...

 

[justbyfaith]

Well, we know, at least, that the seventh trumpet occurs before the events of Revelation 13 and 14; so if the rapture occurs at the seventh trumpet, the church will not be subjected to the reign of the Antichrist and the mark of the Beast.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The "Second Coming / RETURN" of Christ occurs before [even] the first vial is "poured out" onto the earth - because, Jesus Himself is the One Who "dispenses" the vials...

... via the "seven angels" though:


[Rev15]

1 And I saw another great and wonderful sign in heaven: seven angels, having seven plagues—the last, because in them the wrath of God was completed.
[...]
5 And after these things I looked, and the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. 6 And the seven angels having the seven plagues came forth out of the temple, having been clothed in pure, bright linen, and having been girded with golden sashes around the chests.

7 And one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God, the One living to the ages of the ages. 8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power; and no one was able to enter into the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.




[and...]


Rev 16:1
And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.


Rev 17:1
And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:


Rev 21:9
And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.




[again... the "7 Vials" themselves cover SOME amount of TIME... and they are PRIOR TO His Second Coming to the earth (see Vial #6, for example)]

 

[ewq1938]

Well, we know, at least, that the seventh trumpet occurs before the events of Revelation 13 and 14; so if the rapture occurs at the seventh trumpet, the church will not be subjected to the reign of the Antichrist and the mark of the Beast.

Nope. Revelation is not in chronological order. Rev 13 is the start of GT and Rev 11 shows how it ends.

 

[GaryA]

Show me where in the Bible it indicates the 42 months is "the ruling of world by the beast" in such a way as to indicate that the 42 months is exactly in start-to-finish alignment with it.

I am trying to show you something...

Consider for a moment that the 42 months is within a longer span of time - let us call it a "tribulation period" - such that - there is a passage of time during the 'trib' but before the 42 months and a passage of time during the 'trib' but after the 42 months.

Whereas, the start-point and end-point of the 42 months does not actually align with any significant 'event' moment-in-time.

The Bible does not indicate anything to be in alignment with either the start-point or end-point of the 42 months.

That is what I am saying.

 

[GaryA]

... via the "seven angels" though:

"Of course..."

[again... the "7 Vials" themselves cover SOME amount of TIME... and they are PRIOR TO His Second Coming to the earth (see Vial #6, for example)]

No.

 

[justbyfaith]

Nope. Revelation is not in chronological order. Rev 13 is the start of GT and Rev 11 shows how it ends.

I believe that the seven bowls happen as the result of the seventh trumpet.

The bowls clearly happen after the mark; because the first bowl is a punishment on those who have taken it.

So, the seven trumpets and the seven bowls, while they are similar, are not the same events.

If the first trumpet occurs at the beginning of the GT, it cannot be the first bowl since the first bowl is a judgment on those who have taken the mark. Therefore, since the first bowl would have to occur in the middle or at the end of the GT, it cannot be the first trumpet.

So then, the first trumpet occurs at the beginning of the GT; and the seven bowls occur after the seventh trumpet.

Now, the mark, name, and number of the Beast, occurs in between the seventh trumpet and the first bowl in the chronology of the book of Revelation.

Therefore, it occurs after the seventh trumpet.

There are those who may come to know the Lord after the seventh trumpet; and when they die in the Lord, they shall be blessed, for they will rest from their labours and it will not be true of them that "they rest not day or night", in eternity, as is spoken of those who will take the mark.

 

[GaryA]

I believe that the seven bowls happen as the result of the seventh trumpet.

The bowls clearly happen after the mark; because the first bowl is a punishment on those who have taken it.

So, the seven trumpets and the seven bowls, while they are similar, are not the same events.

If the first trumpet occurs at the beginning of the GT, it cannot be the first bowl since the first bowl is a judgment on those who have taken the mark. Therefore, since the first bowl would have to occur in the middle or at the end of the GT, it cannot be the first trumpet.

So then, the first trumpet occurs at the beginning of the GT; and the seven bowls occur after the seventh trumpet.

Now, the mark, name, and number of the Beast, occurs in between the seventh trumpet and the first bowl in the chronology of the book of Revelation.

Therefore, it occurs after the seventh trumpet.

There are those who may come to know the Lord after the seventh trumpet; and when they die in the Lord, they shall be blessed, for they will rest from their labours and it will not be true of them that "they rest not day or night", in eternity, as is spoken of those who will take the mark.

Part correct, part not...

Please see:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Time_Line.html

 

[ewq1938]

I believe that the seven bowls happen as the result of the seventh trumpet.

The bowls clearly happen after the mark; because the first bowl is a punishment on those who have taken it.

So, the seven trumpets and the seven bowls, while they are similar, are not the same events.

Of course this is correct.

If the first trumpet occurs at the beginning of the GT, it cannot be the first bowl since the first bowl is a judgment on those who have taken the mark. Therefore, since the first bowl would have to occur in the middle or at the end of the GT, it cannot be the first trumpet.

Mostly correct but the first trumpet is not part of the GT. That would be 6th trump, possibly the 5th as well. But the other 4 are definitely pre-GT trumps/events.

Now, the mark, name, and number of the Beast, occurs in between the seventh trumpet and the first bowl in the chronology of the book of Revelation.

The 7th trump is second coming so no, the mark etc happen before that trump. The mark, name, and number of the Beast happen in the 6th trump because the two prophets are killed 3.5 days before 7th sounds proving all those things had happened before they die.