Trinity, lets make sense of it

[CherieR]

OK i'm not going to beat ya up .

If you do not see the distinction of the Holy Spirit from the father or the Son can you tell me where the father and the Son is in

John 14 :16-17 another "helper" "the Spirit of truth"
John 14:26

John 15:26
John 16:7, 8,13-14
Matthew 12:31-32
and in the Old,
Gen. 1:2; Job 26:13; Is. 32:15). in context to the creation

the Sprit of God , the Spirit of the Lord, eternal Spirit

• Breath of the Almighty
  Job 33:4
  
  
• Comforter
  John 14:16 John 14:26 ; 15:26
  
  
• Eternal Spirit
  Hebrews 9:14
  
  
• Free Spirit
  Psalms 51:12
  
  
• God
  Acts 5:3 Acts 5:4
  
  
• Good Spirit
  Nehemiah 9:20 ; Psalms 143:10
  
  
• Holy Spirit
  Psalms 51:11 ; Luke 11:13 ; Ephesians 1:13 ; 4:30
  
  
• Lord, The
  2 Thessalonians 3:5
  
  
• Power of the Highest
  Luke 1:35
  
  
• Spirit, The
  Matthew 4:1 ; John 3:6 ; 1 Timothy 4:1
  
  
• Spirit of the Lord God
  Isaiah 61:1
  
  
• Spirit of the Lord
  Isaiah 11:2 ; Acts 5:9
  
  
• Spirit of God
  Genesis 1:2 ; 1 Corinthians 2:11 ; Job 33:4
  
  
• Spirit of the Father
  Matthew 10:20
  
  
• Spirit of Christ
  Romans 8:9 ;
• 1 Peter 1:11

All of these speak about the Holy Spirit in context to what HE does with distinction from the Father and the Son Yet still God

I looked up the verses. I really like the one in Ephesians about how the Holy Spirit is a seal and guarantee of the inheritance.

 

[Absolutely]

So on their own, they are not God?

Jesus is not God, the Father is not God, the Holy Spirit is not God!!!

Do you have scripture for that?

Where did i say any such thing?
Too much assumption

 

[Absolutely]

The One God, in heaven and on earth.

Lots of things can be said and not said accurately and inaccurately.
It's not one dimensional.
Yes one God.

Is that all?

No

 

[bygrace]

Lots of things can be said and not said accurately and inaccurately.
It's not one dimensional.
Yes one God.

Is that all?

No

have you not been following along? lol

 

[PS]

Where did i say any such thing?
Too much assumption

You said this:

Together THEY are one.

Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit

Unbelievers say Jesus is not God. So when a Trinitarian who is trying to explain the Trinity, says Jesus is not the Father and neither is Jesus the Holy Spirit, even though I know what is meant, it gives those who oppose the Trinity the authority to say, "well if Jesus is not the Father and neither is Jesus the Holy Spirit, then Jesus cannot be God."

 

[PS]

Lots of things can be said and not said accurately and inaccurately.
It's not one dimensional.
Yes one God.

Is that all?

No

You are correct to say "It's not one dimensional, but it is One God."

So let us think about a three dimensional God, which is who God is. He is after all in heaven, on earth and in our hearts, three dimensions.

So now we have ONE God who is present on earth like the roots of a tree. The ONE God extends into heaven like the branches of a tree, and the ONE God moves among us like the fruits of a tree that are spread around us.

So, the roots are not the branches, and the branches are not the fruit, but it is ONE omnipresent tree. Therefore God is ONE.

The illustration is my own, please forgive my poor attempt, I only put it forward for discussion.

 

[jb]

What do YOU personally, believe about the trinity, how would you explain it? If you even believe in it. And if you dont, show scripture why not.

Did a blog on this, you can find it Here (Part I) and Here (Part II)...

You may also find This study helpful...

 

[PS]

As Gleason Archer explains, God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin.

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14).

God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race.

But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it, was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age.

 

[Endoscopy]

The trinity is a confusing subject to many, no doubt about that. If you do a search you will find a ton of questions about the trinity from Christians and non-christians alike.
We have many different explanations for it. Like water ice and steam. The egg-shell, and the football illustrations.

If someone were to ask me if I believe in the trinity, I would say yes. And I have. But then as we started conversing I have been often accused of being a modalist. I had no idea what that is.

Here again is my view of it and how I explain it, so someone can tell me what "ism" im in: I believe in the Godhead. One God. We are made in God's image and we are a body/soul/spirit. How this would work with the Godhead is: Father = Soul, Jesus = body, Holy Spirit = Spirit.
I think its a great and simple way to explain it, if anyone can show me wrong from scripture i'll change my view obviously in a heart beat. I like it because I dont need extra-biblical catholic philosophical ideas and words added to scriptures like "persons" or "essences" or anything like that. Thats just too complicated in my opinion.

Its easy to find verses that prove the deity of Jesus. But its impossible to find a single verse that "proves" the trinity. Which is exactly my problem with it, if its that important God would surely have mentioned it, and there should have been a big controversy among the jews for it. But Paul never writes about it, thats why I believe the "Godhead" would be a proper and biblical word to use instead. This bothers me because when witnessing to people the trinity almost ALWAYS comes up, especially when talking to muslims, OY VEY!

What do YOU personally, believe about the trinity, how would you explain it? If you even believe in it. And if you dont, show scripture why not.

This to me is one of the confusing aspects in Christianity. I have heard several attempts to make this issue understandable and all fall short of totally explaining it. A simple statement "3 in one" but very difficult to understand!

 

[PS]

It came to me this morning as I woke from sleep, that my attempt at turning a two dimensional drawing of the Trinity into a three dimensional image of Jesus has already been done in Revelation 22:14, where Jesus is compared to the tree of life.

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.

For Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell. (Col 1:15-19)

Praise to His Holy name. God Bless.

 

[Lanolin]

You should try to understand Modalism due to your above post.

Not sure who you mean by the "philosophers" up above, whether it be; 1) Those who rejected and exposed the heresy or Modalism, or; 2) Those who brought the error into the Church.

If it's of the former to which you refer, it wouldn't be proper to say they are those "who never come to the truth." If it's the latter to which you refer, then we must note the error of their teaching.

Either way we should know why Modalism is incorrect and why, instead of brushing it under the rug in favor of "Just reading the Bible and receive God's word for what it is." After all, that is where all heresies begin and how many heresies are repeated when the person could have studied these things out in order to avoid them.

Meh I am not one to tell people what they SHOULD or shouldnt do. All I know is the truth and modalism is just another ' ism'that doesnt mean anything to me like all the other 'isms' that are vain philosophies.

Why would you answer a fool according to his folly? Just tell the truth, thats what Jesus did. PAul didnt try to understand all the greek philosophies of the time. He just said well you may have your unknown God but I am here to tell you about this unknown God whom we know through Jesus Christ.

 

[Absolutely]

You said this:


Unbelievers say Jesus is not God. So when a Trinitarian who is trying to explain the Trinity, says Jesus is not the Father and neither is Jesus the Holy Spirit, even though I know what is meant, it gives those who oppose the Trinity the authority to say, "well if Jesus is not the Father and neither is Jesus the Holy Spirit, then Jesus cannot be God."

Agreeing with the bible is beyond the box .
I can read it and agree no matter what group i am compared to.
If someone does not believe God is three persons,they must do so inspite of my verses

 

[Absolutely]

It came to me this morning as I woke from sleep, that my attempt at turning a two dimensional drawing of the Trinity into a three dimensional image of Jesus has already been done in Revelation 22:14, where Jesus is compared to the tree of life.

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.



For Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell. (Col 1:15-19)

Praise to His Holy name. God Bless.

The verse in rev,which i already showed you,destroys forever the oneness doctrine.

Jesus takes the scroll out of the hand of the Father.

I can look it up,since oneness adherants obviously never read it.

 

[Absolutely]

You are correct to say "It's not one dimensional, but it is One God."

So let us think about a three dimensional God, which is who God is. He is after all in heaven, on earth and in our hearts, three dimensions.

So now we have ONE God who is present on earth like the roots of a tree. The ONE God extends into heaven like the branches of a tree, and the ONE God moves among us like the fruits of a tree that are spread around us.

So, the roots are not the branches, and the branches are not the fruit, but it is ONE omnipresent tree. Therefore God is ONE.

The illustration is my own, please forgive my poor attempt, I only put it forward for discussion.

Us "trinitarians" agree God is one.
Go ahead and show us the the Father is not separate from the son.
We all know God is one. We agree there.
Oneness is blatantly false.

 

[Absolutely]

have you not been following along? lol

Be glad to talk to you about anything.
Whats on your mind?

 

[PS]

Us "trinitarians" agree God is one.
Go ahead and show us the the Father is not separate from the son.
We all know God is one. We agree there.
Oneness is blatantly false.

Jesus is God on earth and the Father is God in Heaven. There we have two separate persons of the Trinity and the Holy Spirit who Jesus sent is the third separate person on the Trinity.

Each person is separate from the other. The Father in Heaven is separate from the Son on earth, and the Holy Spirit is independent of both Father and Son.

In this way we have One omnipresent God.

 

[Absolutely]

Jesus is God on earth and the Father is God in Heaven. There we have two separate persons of the Trinity and the Holy Spirit who Jesus sent is the third separate person on the Trinity.

Each person is separate from the other. The Father in Heaven is separate from the Son on earth, and the Holy Spirit is independent of both Father and Son.

In this way we have One omnipresent God.

Jesus is with the Father,in heaven,but not limited to that location.

 

[Absolutely]

As Gleason Archer explains, God had to become one of us in order to redeem us from the guilt and penalty of our sin.

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth’ ‘(John 1:14).

God as God could not forgive us for our sins unless our sins were fully paid for; otherwise He would have been a condoner and protector of the violation of His own holy law. It was only as a man that God in Christ could furnish satisfaction sufficient to atone for the sins of mankind; for only a man, a true human being, could properly represent the human race.

But at the same time our Redeemer had to be God, for only God could furnish a sacrifice of infinite value, to compensate for the penalty of eternal hell that our sin demands, according to the righteous claims of divine justice. Only God could have devised a way of salvation that made it possible for Him to remain Just and at the same time become the Justifier of the ungodly and instead of sending them to the everlasting perdition they deserved it, was the perfect Man who was also infinite God that furnished an effectual sacrifice for all believers of every age.

Innocent blood.
Heavens price for sin.
The son was the only way,and the reason animal blood was insufficient.
Beyond that the earth had to be redeemed. Only Boaz of Ruth could act as kinsman redeemer.
Boaz redeemed the land.
Jesus will do the same thing as the God man. Rev 5 ,no MAN was found to open the seals. Then,enters Jesus.

 

[Absolutely]

You are correct to say "It's not one dimensional, but it is One God."

So let us think about a three dimensional God, which is who God is. He is after all in heaven, on earth and in our hearts, three dimensions.

So now we have ONE God who is present on earth like the roots of a tree. The ONE God extends into heaven like the branches of a tree, and the ONE God moves among us like the fruits of a tree that are spread around us.

So, the roots are not the branches, and the branches are not the fruit, but it is ONE omnipresent tree. Therefore God is ONE.

The illustration is my own, please forgive my poor attempt, I only put it forward for discussion.

Not 3 dimensional.
He walks through wall and displaces time.
He has a myriad of names and discriptions.
It is almost beyond every dimension.