Trinity vs. Oneness

[distinctiveministry]

Sigh* Phil. For my part, I'm anything but a ravenous wolf. Nothing about my life or teaching would lead anyone else to suggest otherwise. I teach in order to build others up in Christ, so that they will love Him and be like Him in all respects. I don't do it for my gain or my benefit, but for those who would follow God with all their heart, soul, mind a strength.
On the other hand, I don't need to quote a verse from Jesus for just about anyone who would read this thread through to see that you have an attitude problem, a mean spirit, and a cold heart. I know you see yourself instead as a defender of the truth, but nothing about the WAY that you carry yourself in this conversation allows me to see Christ in you. What you think is a righteous anger burning within you I see as just anger, because of how you let it out.

 

[Consumed]

distintiveministry, i think you display the fruit of the spirit - love

God bless you. when Jesus was ridiculed,slandered and even called as being demonic He just died on the cross for them regardless.
Shaking the dust off His feet, for from dust they were created, no part of Him they will be - no love - no fruit - no inheritence

God bless you bro

 

[forerunner]

That's right, Phil, we just need to love one another. I didn't say that's how we get saved. I didn't say you needed to empathize. I just said you are supposed to have the same heart that God has for others, which you don't. You say "it is through the love of God that we speak out against such things..." I can understand where you are coming from when you say that, but...
You don't do it in a loving way, so I doubt that love is your motive.

I worship YHWH God.
I believe Y'shua (Jesus) is God in the flesh, fully God and fully man.
I believe the Spirit is God.
I believe that Y'shua is my only hope of salvation and that by faith in Him.
I strive to be obedient to God in everything, confess my sins to Him, and repent when I realize that I am living sinfully.

But because I believe that it was YHWH who came in the flesh and who now works among us by His spirit, you believe I am going to hell, leading others there, and treat me spitefully.

Very well said distinctiveministry. the truth has been told.

 

[VW]

Jesus Himself actually call's them ''Ravenous wolves'

Just because you call it heresy don' make it so.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Oneness doctrine is a false teaching; however, God loves the people who believe it. That's good news. Coming out the error and into the truth of sound doctrine is simple. You simply stop believing it and teaching it and start believing what the Bible actually teaches on the points of error you have held.


You repent from it in other words.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." -1 John 1:9. That's great news for everyone everywhere! Praise the Lord.

Doesn't matter if you are a pastor of the UPIC are just someone who was taught wrong. The solution is the same: repent.

Here's a really good article: What is the Oneness Doctrine? Bible Study with BibleStudyGuide.org. Study the Bible on the Internet.

[SIZE=+1]What is the Oneness Doctrine?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1][SIZE=-4][SIZE=-1]Bible study on the Oneness doctrine.[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

The Oneness doctrine is popular among Evangelical and Oneness Pentecostal churches. It's a false doctrine teaching that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

The Oneness doctrine is traced back to the fist and second century, but was repopularized in the twentieth century. In 1913, Pentecostalism broke into two major divisions over the Oneness (Jesus only) doctrine[SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE]. By 1983, 44% of all Evangelical churches believed the "Jesus only" doctrine[SIZE=-1]2[/SIZE].

Early History
Monarchianism dates back as far as the first century by some accounts, but is not clearly seen in history until the second century. This doctrine teaches that God is one person, and opposes teaching relating to the Trinity.
There are two major types of Monarchianism, dynamic and modal.

Dynamic Monarchianism
Dynamic Monarchianism is also called Adoptionism. This doctrine asserts that Jesus was born a man, and didn't preexist as God.
After Jesus proved Himself to be a sinless man, God adopted Him and filled Him with the Holy Spirit, thereafter making Him divine.
Dynamic Monarchianism is similar to the Jehovah's Witness doctrine that Jesus was created by God, and is not divine.

Modal Monarchianism
Modal Monarchianism is also called Sabellianism, named for Sabellius who became the leader of those who believed this doctrine in the 2nd century.
This doctrine teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are modes of the one God. It denies that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate individuals.
Oneness Pentecostal groups and "Jesus only" Evangelicals are modalists, composing the largest numbers of believers of this doctrine.
Unfortunately, through, this doctrine is spreading to other churches today.

An outward sign of Oneness and "Jesus only" churches is they baptized in the name of Jesus, rather than in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And, they believe they're praying to Jesus whenever they pray, no matter how they address their prayer.

Twisting The Scriptures
Believers in the Oneness doctrine often twist the Scriptures by taking attributes and analogies of God in the Old Testament, and misapplying them to New Testament Scriptures relating to Jesus.


For example:

• They take Old Testament Scriptures relating to God as the Creator (Gen. 1:1; 2:7).
• They take New Testament Scriptures relating to Jesus as the Creator (Col. 1:16-19; etc.).
• Then they conclude that God and Jesus are the same person, twisting the Scriptures, rather then rightly dividing the word of truth.
• They ignore the fact that these same verses contradict their doctrine when the whole council of God is rightly divided.
  • Genesis 1:1 Elohim is plural, showing there is more than one individual in the Godhead, as reflected in Genesis 1:26 where the word "Us" is used.
  • Col. 1:16-17 Paul tells us that all things were created through Jesus and for Jesus, indicating that He was active in creation, as a separate individual from the Father (Col. 1:19; Heb. 1:2).
• They ignore other Scriptures that contradict their doctrine (Gen. 1:26; Jn. 1:1; Heb. 1:2).

Scriptures Refuting The Oneness Doctrine


Many Scriptures refute the Oneness doctrine. Here is a partial list of the better ones:

• Gen. 1:1, 26 The plural word for "God" is used regarding creation, indicating that God (i.e., the Godhead) is composed of separate individuals.
• Col. 1:16-19; Heb. 1:2 Jesus was active in creation as a separate individual.
• Jn. 1:1 John uses the Greek definite article, to differentiate between two divine individuals in this verse.
• Jn. 14:23 Jesus uses the plural pronoun "we" which shows He's a separate individual from the Father.
• 1 Cor. 11:3 Christ is the head of man, and God is the head of Christ, showing that Christ and the Father are separate individuals.
• 2 Jn. 1:9 John uses the word "both" showing that the Father and Son are separate individuals.
• 1 Tim. 2:5 Jesus mediates between man and God (Father), showing that He is a separate individual from God.
• Rom. 8:34 Jesus is at the right hand of God, interceding for us, showing that He is a separate individual from God.
• 1 Jn. 2:1 Jesus is our Advocate in heaven, pleading our case before God, showing that He is a separate individual from God.
• Rom. 8:26-27 The Holy Spirit is interceding for us, through differently than Jesus (Rom. 8:34), showing that the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and God are three separate individuals.
• 1 Cor. 15:23-24 Christ will hand over the kingdom to the Father at the end, showing He's a separate individual from the Father.
• Phil. 2:10-11 Jesus will be exalted for eternity in heaven, and bring glory to the Father, showing that He's a separate individual from the Father.
• Heb. 12:2 Jesus is in heaven, sitting at the right hand of the throne of God, showing He's a separate individual from the Father.
• Heb. 13:8 Jesus is the same for eternity, showing that He'll always be a separate individual from the Father.
• Rev. 22:1, 3 God (Father) and the Lamb (Jesus) are two separate individuals whom we'll worship in heaven.

Conclusion
We only need one Scripture, that's rightly divided, to prove a doctrine is false. Such was the case when Jesus taught the error of the Sadducees' doctrine on the resurrection (Matt. 22:23-33).

Many plain Scriptures teach that Jesus is a separate individual from God the Father.
Therefore, all other conclusions from Scripture must agree with this fact, that Jesus is a separate individual from the Father, or else it's false.


Footnotes:

• [SIZE=-1]1[/SIZE] William H. Swatos and Peter Kivisto, Encyclopedia of Religion and Society, (Rowman Altamira, 1998) p. 176
• [SIZE=-1]2[/SIZE] Ibid, p. 358.

 

[phil36]

distintiveministry, i think you display the fruit of the spirit - love

God bless you. when Jesus was ridiculed,slandered and even called as being demonic He just died on the cross for them regardless.
Shaking the dust off His feet, for from dust they were created, no part of Him they will be - no love - no fruit - no inheritence

God bless you bro

If you have the wrong God there is no Kingdom! One big thing you have missed consumed..... Distinctive DENIES the Jesus to whom you are referring.

Jesus was slandered for a very good reason consumed... He was fully God, Not the Father, But the Son. Jesus attacked very sternly those who taught falsly, as Did Paul, John etc

Your use of Scripture to defend heresy is actually really scary consumed. very scary indeed.

If you believe in a false God, you have the fruit of the Spirit....??? can you actually explain that for me Consumed, especially as these guys are intent on spreading their heresy.

Blessings

Phil

 

[phil36]

Just because you call it heresy don' make it so.

Get your facts straight VW,

Since the very first started this heresy, and by the way, this did not happen until the 2nd century, they were demmed heretics.. Because they went against what was handed down from the Apostles.

Infact it is very simple Church history VW. 'Monarchianism' always has been heresy, and always will be.

Those who say 'oh just love' they have the Spirit in them' I have a question for you.. what Spirit? because exactly what God do they serve! it is not The God of the Bible.

Blessings

Phil

 

[VW]

Why would one think that a false doctrine is sin? Every sin is an act, or a thought about an act, and has nothing to do with doctrines. Do some of us really believe that having what they consider a false doctrine to be on an equal basis with adultery, or idolatry, or murder? How about being equated with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The bible does not teach. The bible is the written, inspired word of God, but it does not and cannot teach. To believe this and to trust in this, to believe that the bible has the power to teach us, well, that's pretty close to idolatry. The Holy Spirit teaches us, and the very first thing that He teaches us is to love one another. Then He teaches us to be at peace. And so on. The Holy Spirit is the proof of our salvation, not any doctrine.

 

[phil36]

Sigh* Phil. For my part, I'm anything but a ravenous wolf. Nothing about my life or teaching would lead anyone else to suggest otherwise. I teach in order to build others up in Christ, so that they will love Him and be like Him in all respects. I don't do it for my gain or my benefit, but for those who would follow God with all their heart, soul, mind a strength.
On the other hand, I don't need to quote a verse from Jesus for just about anyone who would read this thread through to see that you have an attitude problem, a mean spirit, and a cold heart. I know you see yourself instead as a defender of the truth, but nothing about the WAY that you carry yourself in this conversation allows me to see Christ in you. What you think is a righteous anger burning within you I see as just anger, because of how you let it out.

Hi Distinctive,

your soft soaping words may have fool consumed and VW, However, as I have said I do not fall for the sympathy vote post.

As I have said before you do not follow the God of the Bible, Church history has condemned it as heresy, if you follow and wilfully spread 'oneness' then it is quite simply a case you are either badly mistaken or a heretic.. and you certainly arent badly mistaken as you take this view in full knowledge.

You may see it as anger, and to be honest know one likes to be called a heretic, however, you plainly are distinctive, I still love you with all my heart, but, that does not take away the fact that you are wilfully aware of the heresy you follow.

I will say a righteous anger, that you are willing to spread this heresy as truth. and no matter how you dress it up, and say all the right things, and use all the correct christian phrases you do not worship the Jesus of the bible. Jesus the Son of God the second person of the Trinity.

I think we are in a worse State when we have professing Christians actually agreeing with you, some even say you have the fruit of the Spirit, that is plain silly, as you do not believe the Spirit of Scripture, you worship something else.

Behind every false god there is??? oneness is NOT christianity, never has been and never will be.

Blessings

Phil

 

[Consumed]

lets bring back the Spanish Inquisition,

oh, its here already

all we need is a stake and torture chamber

after all its in the name of God and salvation

let who who has not sin cast the first stone - i'll pass on that,

im just a sinner saved by grace

 

[charisenexcelcis]

Why would one think that a false doctrine is sin? Every sin is an act, or a thought about an act, and has nothing to do with doctrines. Do some of us really believe that having what they consider a false doctrine to be on an equal basis with adultery, or idolatry, or murder? How about being equated with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The bible does not teach. The bible is the written, inspired word of God, but it does not and cannot teach. To believe this and to trust in this, to believe that the bible has the power to teach us, well, that's pretty close to idolatry. The Holy Spirit teaches us, and the very first thing that He teaches us is to love one another. Then He teaches us to be at peace. And so on. The Holy Spirit is the proof of our salvation, not any doctrine.

VW, how do you fit this scripture into your view: "But when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth." At what point do you think that our mistakes regarding significant points of theology move from innocence to rejection of the Spirit of Truth? How would you discern when a person has made that shift?

 

[Consumed]

VW, how do you fit this scripture into your view: "But when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth." At what point do you think that our mistakes regarding significant points of theology moves from innocence to rejection of the Spirit of Truth? How would you discern when a person has made that shift?

with all due respect charis, by condemning someone as a heretic???

 

[phil36]

Why would one think that a false doctrine is sin? Every sin is an act, or a thought about an act, and has nothing to do with doctrines. Do some of us really believe that having what they consider a false doctrine to be on an equal basis with adultery, or idolatry, or murder? How about being equated with blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The bible does not teach. The bible is the written, inspired word of God, but it does not and cannot teach. To believe this and to trust in this, to believe that the bible has the power to teach us, well, that's pretty close to idolatry. The Holy Spirit teaches us, and the very first thing that He teaches us is to love one another. Then He teaches us to be at peace. And so on. The Holy Spirit is the proof of our salvation, not any doctrine.

VW,

Thanks for your post. However, this is not just sin, is it? this is denying who God is and substituting the God of Scripture with another God..It is IDOLATRY, it is not Christianity!

WOW VW, now I can understand how you can agree with Distinctive...

You say the bible does not teach? you believe some wierd things

I will point you once again to Scripture that was inspired by God and is God's word!

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.


Did you notice something of what God is telling us?? or do you convienently skip these parts. also it may help you to read Psalm 119.

How can you profess to be Christs child and deny His word, His inspired word? I just admit I have had my eyes opened to what some people on here actually believe. and it is frightening.

Blessings

Phil

 

[phil36]

lets bring back the Spanish Inquisition,

oh, its here already

all we need is a stake and torture chamber

after all its in the name of God and salvation

let who who has not sin cast the first stone - i'll pass on that,

im just a sinner saved by grace

There is a difference between sin and denying God consumed, or is denying God ok aslong as you say the right things and sound ok?

blessings

Phil

 

[Consumed]

There is a difference between sin and denying God consumed, or is denying God ok aslong as you say the right things and sound ok?

blessings

Phil

havent seen anyone denying God though???

 

[phil36]

Consumed, they deny the God of Scripture. it is very simple. and in doing so denying the very NATURE of God.

But as I say, you seem to think this is ok.

Blessings

Phil

 

[Consumed]

Consumed, they deny the God of Scripture. it is very simple. and in doing so denying the very NATURE of God.

But as I say, you seem to think this is ok.

Blessings

Phil

to me phil its abc christianity, its all about Jesus

i polled "whats the difference" why, read above line

 

[phil36]

Hi consumed,

You are correct it is abc Jesus, heres the problem and maybe you don't understand or don't care. 'oneness' do not worship the Jesus of the Bible. I don't think that is just abc Jesus, it might as well be abc consumed for all that matters.

Oneness, do not follow the Lord and Saviour of Scripture.

blessings

Phil

 

[Consumed]

Hi consumed,

You are correct it is abc Jesus, heres the problem and maybe you don't understand or don't care. 'oneness' do not worship the Jesus of the Bible. I don't think that is just abc Jesus, it might as well be abc consumed for all that matters.

Oneness, do not follow the Lord and Saviour of Scripture.

blessings

Phil

abc christianity consumed by jesus lol

thats all i do care about your right

 

[phil36]

abc christianity consumed by jesus lol

thats all i do care about your right

Atleast I think you are consumed by the right Jesus?? what about the people who believe a false God? what are they consumed with? since you say they are full of the ''fruit of the Spirit''

You never answered that.. How can someone follow a false God, willfully deny the true God and be filled with the Fruit of the Spirit?

Blessings

Phil