I agree with much of what Gaebelein writes, here:
[quoting; bracketed comments mine]
"Revelation 6:9-11.
"The four living creatures have uttered their four-fold “Come.” They are thus seen in connection with the providential government of the world. [note: I've mentioned before that I believe "the 4 living creatures" in some way represent the "4-directional plotment" of Israel of OT times--these match their descriptions--which I won't get into here]. Under the fifth seal the scene changes completely. John saw under the altar the souls of them that had been slain. And they cry, “How long, O Lord!” Who are they? Not the martyrs of past ages. They are risen from the dead and are in glory with redeemed bodies. [note: I disagree that any OT saints are "resurrected" by this point in the chronology, based on Dan12:13, etc; the Church which is His body, yes]. The words of the Lord in the Olivet discourse give us the key. Speaking to His Jewish disciples He said: “Then shall they deliver you up, and shall kill you and ye shall be hated of all nations for My Name’s sake” (Matthew 24:9). [agree with this]
"The Lord speaks of another company of Jewish disciples who will bear a witness during the end of the age, after the rapture of the Church. He will not leave Himself without a witness. He calls a remnant of His people Israel and they bear a witness to the coming of the Messiah, their coming Deliverer and King. Many of them suffer martyrdom. Their cry, “How long?” is the well-known prayer of Jewish saints; and their prayer to have their blood avenged is equally a Jewish prayer. Christians [presently/'in this present age'] are not supplicating for vengeance on their foes. The prayer for vengeance refers us to the imprecatory psalms prewritten by the Holy Spirit in anticipation of the final persecution of Jewish believers. And the fellow-servants and their brethren, who are yet to be killed (Revelation 6:11), are the martyrs of that remnant during the final three and one-half years, which is the great tribulation."
--Gaebelein, Commentary on Revelation 6
[end quoting; bracketed comments mine, parenthesis original]
[quoting; bracketed comments mine]
"Revelation 6:9-11.
"The four living creatures have uttered their four-fold “Come.” They are thus seen in connection with the providential government of the world. [note: I've mentioned before that I believe "the 4 living creatures" in some way represent the "4-directional plotment" of Israel of OT times--these match their descriptions--which I won't get into here]. Under the fifth seal the scene changes completely. John saw under the altar the souls of them that had been slain. And they cry, “How long, O Lord!” Who are they? Not the martyrs of past ages. They are risen from the dead and are in glory with redeemed bodies. [note: I disagree that any OT saints are "resurrected" by this point in the chronology, based on Dan12:13, etc; the Church which is His body, yes]. The words of the Lord in the Olivet discourse give us the key. Speaking to His Jewish disciples He said: “Then shall they deliver you up, and shall kill you and ye shall be hated of all nations for My Name’s sake” (Matthew 24:9). [agree with this]
"The Lord speaks of another company of Jewish disciples who will bear a witness during the end of the age, after the rapture of the Church. He will not leave Himself without a witness. He calls a remnant of His people Israel and they bear a witness to the coming of the Messiah, their coming Deliverer and King. Many of them suffer martyrdom. Their cry, “How long?” is the well-known prayer of Jewish saints; and their prayer to have their blood avenged is equally a Jewish prayer. Christians [presently/'in this present age'] are not supplicating for vengeance on their foes. The prayer for vengeance refers us to the imprecatory psalms prewritten by the Holy Spirit in anticipation of the final persecution of Jewish believers. And the fellow-servants and their brethren, who are yet to be killed (Revelation 6:11), are the martyrs of that remnant during the final three and one-half years, which is the great tribulation."
--Gaebelein, Commentary on Revelation 6
[end quoting; bracketed comments mine, parenthesis original]
The word is emphatic that ALL take the mark.
Emphatic.
The "144,000" (of one nation) are set in contradistinction to the "a great multitude... of all the nations" (plural nations), in Rev7 (though both groups are "saved" persons, i.e. "saints" [having come to faith within/during the trib years]).
"The Church which is His body" is not either of these two ^ .
And "we" ('the Church which is His body') are certainly not (nor will ever be) the "144,000"
"The Church which is His body" is not either of these two ^ .
And "we" ('the Church which is His body') are certainly not (nor will ever be) the "144,000"
Why do you need them to be new believers?