Twinkling of an eye

[garee]

JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: AND I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:

I am married to you {the bride of Christ}. Goin to Jerusalem, Zion, His Holy Mountain {in the twinkling of an eye}. When we meet Christ in the air at the gathering of His Bride {you call the rapture} we will be headin to 1000 yr period of rest. I guess you rapturist will now have to claim there will be 2 brides.

Those who make salvation according to what the eyes see (no faith) must develop two brides in order to hang on to the outward flesh of a Jew for some reason..

From my experience they would have others believe nothing really happened at the first century reformation. That things should remain just as during the time period God used the flesh of a Jew to represent faith and unbelief in mankind. Just as he used other metaphors in parables to give us his truth. He used animal in the same way; clean to represent on has faith and unclean no faith. A teaching tool so that we might hear him .. The shadows became substance. some worship those shadows as if the reformation had not come.

The reformation is still doing its work of restoring the government of God before their were kings in Israel.

Salvation has nothing to do with the flesh of any nation. Never has never could be. we walk by faith the eternal not seen.

One bride .A beautiful wonderful snap shot below.

Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

One bride .A beautiful wonderful snap shot below.

Revelation 12 King James Version (KJV) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Who are you saying is the "one bride" in that passage? (or are you saying that?).

"[betrothed you to one Husband]... that I may PRESENT [you, understood you] A CHASTE VIRGIN to Christ"... are you saying that is the pregnant woman in the Rev12 passage??

 

[Absolutely]

You believe there is more than one "Rapture"; I do not.

(So, I am not referring to "Rapture," when I speak of the events surrounding His Second Coming to the earth FOR the commencement of the promised AND PROPHESIED earthly Millennial Kingdom, aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth]," aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [distinct from "the MARRIAGE"]," aka "the age [singular] to come" etc etc)

Wink,wink...
We can just pretend rev 14 has no gathering.

 

[garee]

You believe there is more than one "Rapture"; I do not.

(So, I am not referring to "Rapture," when I speak of the events surrounding His Second Coming to the earth FOR the commencement of the promised AND PROPHESIED earthly Millennial Kingdom, aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS [on the earth]," aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER [distinct from "the MARRIAGE"]," aka "the age [singular] to come" etc etc)

Two kinds of ressurections (rapture).

Like many things the devil as the father of lying spirits would make it all one. . . to take away the understanding of scripture.. or separate that in which God calls one.

The upside down god of this world .God says one thing he does the opposite.

This as if the kingdom was here on earth according to the preliminary representative glory that followed to suffering of our bloody husband . The graves (tens of thousands) were opened and they entered the prepared place of the bride of Christ, the church .

She will come down on the last day .The same last day in the twinkling of the eye that death is thrown into the lake of fire never to rise again.

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1:11

Either we are waiting for the second (final) to come or it has alaready .

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Wink,wink...
We can just pretend rev 14 has no gathering.

The "Rapture[/Departure]" of the Church which is His body (to whom it SOLELY pertains) takes place BEFORE SEAL #1 is opened and unfolds upon the earth (when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" at the START of the trib). Any "gathering" that takes place at any point FOLLOWING that, is not "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" but simply "gathering" (whether by means of death, or of the living to Jerusalem, or whatever...)

 

[Absolutely]

JEREMIAH 3 [11] And the LORD said unto me, THE BACKSLIDING ISRAEL hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.[12] Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.[13] Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.[14] TURN, O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, SAITH THE LORD; FOR I AM MARRIED UNTO YOU: AND I WILL TAKE YOU ONE OF A CITY, AND TWO OF A FAMILY, AND I WILL BRING YOU TO ZION:

I am married to you {the bride of Christ}. Goin to Jerusalem, Zion, His Holy Mountain {in the twinkling of an eye}. When we meet Christ in the air at the gathering of His Bride {you call the rapture} we will be headin to 1000 yr period of rest. I guess you rapturist will now have to claim there will be 2 brides.

2 covenants
2 groups
He is joined to 2 peoples through covenant. Chrisian and Jew.
The gt is jacobs trouble
Israel's,or Jewish trouble.

The Jewish bride/wife is a harlot.
We are pure through the purifying of JESUS.
Those walking in carnality are the foolish virgins. Dirty robes. The innumerable number before the throne are millions (foolish virgins)who missed the rapture(dirty robes) who have washed their robes in the blood through martyrdom.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Two kinds of ressurections (rapture).

You are equating the words "resurrection" and "rapture," as though they were identical things, one and the same. I am not.

For example, [pertaining to "the Church which is His body"] "the dead IN Christ shall rise [G450] first" (<---this is "resurrection" ['to stand again'], here),

"THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [G726] together with them [AS ONE] in the clouds for the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR..." (<---this is the "rapture" [this only occurs once, pertaining SOLELY to the "ONE BODY [AS ONE]"--"Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"])

 

[Absolutely]

The "Rapture[/Departure]" of the Church which is His body (to whom it SOLELY pertains) takes place BEFORE SEAL #1 is opened and unfolds upon the earth (when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" at the START of the trib). Any "gathering" that takes place at any point FOLLOWING that, is not "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" but simply "gathering" (whether by means of death, or of the living to Jerusalem, or whatever...)

Jesus was caught up,raptured,in acts.
1 thes 4 is a catching away of the wise virgins,as is the 2 witnesses and the group in rev 14.

Those that you say is "only,excusively raptured "is the main harvest,not a "only group we can define as raptured(caught up)"

You appear to be painting yourself in a corner

 

[Absolutely]

The "Rapture[/Departure]" of the Church which is His body (to whom it SOLELY pertains) takes place BEFORE SEAL #1 is opened and unfolds upon the earth (when Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" at the START of the trib). Any "gathering" that takes place at any point FOLLOWING that, is not "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" but simply "gathering" (whether by means of death, or of the living to Jerusalem, or whatever...)

All are resurrected. All humans.

Eternity somehow "requires" a "body".
But a person can be resurrected and not be caught up(raptured).
2 different dynamics

 

[Absolutely]

You are equating the words "resurrection" and "rapture," as though they were identical things, one and the same. I am not.

For example, [pertaining to "the Church which is His body"] "the dead IN Christ shall rise [G450] first" (<---this is "resurrection" ['to stand again'], here),

"THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [G726] together with them [AS ONE] in the clouds for the meeting [noun] of the Lord IN THE AIR..." (<---this is the "rapture" [this only occurs once, pertaining SOLELY to the "ONE BODY [AS ONE]"--"Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"])

No ,main harvest occurs once.
.....but several catchings away

 

[garee]

Who are you saying is the "one bride" in that passage? (or are you saying that?).

"[betrothed you to one Husband]... that I may PRESENT [you, understood you] A CHASTE VIRGIN to Christ"... are you saying that is the pregnant woman in the Rev12 passage??

It could be no other than her. The chaste virgin bride of Christ that has not violated the first commandment to have no god before Christ our husband .

Many sects fornicate with the gods of this world . the god of prosperity The gods that walks down the three avenues spoken of in 1 John . The lust of the eye the lust of the flesh the false pride of this life.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Jesus was caught up,raptured,in acts.
1 thes 4 is a catching away of the wise virgins,as is the 2 witnesses and the group in rev 14.

Those that you say is "only,excusively raptured "is the main harvest,not a "only group we can define as raptured(caught up)"

You appear to be painting yourself in a corner

First of all, I'm not saying "harpazo" never occurs regarding someone other than "the Church [which is His body]" because it happened to Paul (caught up the to third heaven, caught up to Paradise) and the word is also used with regard to Philip (in Acts 8:39, somewhere else on earth); in fact, the word is used 14x (and is not always with regard to being "caught up to heaven" or "in the air," for that matter! https://biblehub.com/greek/726.htm )

Secondly, I disagree that "harpazo" is used for [as example] the two witnesses when they "ascended up to heaven" (IN THE SIGHT of their enemies) nor said of Jesus when He "was taken up into heaven" in Acts 1 (VISIBLY "beheld" by His disciples). I believe the "harpazo" (our Rapture) will NOT be something that others can "visibly BEHOLD" when it takes place (this is how He will "RETURN" [with us! VISIBLY (in the same manner He "WENT UP"<--not "harpazo" [/'snatched away"])], but I believe our Rapture [/harpazo] will mimic Jesus' "[ACTIVE] I ascend" which He did some "40 days" EARLIER (from this Acts 1 VISIBLE thing ['passive' here]), which ['I ASCEND [ACTIVE]'] was SEEN by NO ONE (ONLY TOLD unto MM, and instructed her to "SAY UNTO THEM" regarding this [one], per John 20:17, ON His Resurrection Day/ON FIRSTFRUIT, fulfilling Lev23:10-12 on that very day).

 

[Wall]

1COR.15 [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY.

Death is swallowed up in victory at the 1Cor15 event

ISAIAH’S “IN THAT DAY”

ISAIAH 25 [8] HE WILL SWALLOW UP DEATH IN VICTORY; and the Lord GOD will WIPE AWAY TEARS from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.[9] And it shall be said IN THAT DAY, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

IN THAT DAY= Death is swallowed up in victory

Yeah Yeah, i know what you Rapturist will say. You say there are 2 brides. Now you will say "death will be swallowed up in victory" twice

ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass IN THAT DAY, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and YE SHALL BE GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. [13] And it shall come to pass IN THAT DAY, that the GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

IN THAT DAY= Last trumpet {1Cor.15} will be blown and Gods people gathered {in the twinkling of an eye}

ISAIAH 2 [11] The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted IN THAT DAY. [12] For THE DAY OF THE LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

IN THAT DAY= The Day of the Lord

ISAIAH 2 [19] And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. [20] IN THAT DAY a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; [21] To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, WHEN HE ARISETH TO SHAKE TERRIBLY THE EARTH.

IN THAT DAY= Yup. Surely the Day of the Lord

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

All are resurrected. All humans.

Those [believers/saints] who DIE are "resurrected"... not all will DIE though.

Jesus spoke of two distinct things when He said (in John 11:25-26), "I am THE Resurrection AND THE Life: he that believeth in Me, though he were DEAD [speaking of those who DIE, here], yet SHALL he live: AND he that LIVETH [speaking of those LIVING (in contrast to those who DIE, just referred to prior to this)] and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?"

So I believe the context here is "the Last Day" (i.e. the MK age), and Jesus is speaking of those "still-living" persons [saints] who will ENTER the MK age (in mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children), and will NEVER DIE... and this is because "THE LIFE HIMSELF" will be "RULING IN POWER" and He is ALL-POWERFUL! to do this (maintain their lives, throughout the MK--not an impossible feat, since even after the fall in the garden of Eden, ppl still lived very long lives). Do you believe when Jesus is here RULING IN POWER that HE can do this?

 

[garee]

All are resurrected. All humans.

Eternity somehow "requires" a "body".
But a person can be resurrected and not be caught up(raptured).
2 different dynamics

Yes the second death is the death of death itself not the persons it is applied to. Their spiritless lifeless bodies remain in the dust .

Only the humans that are given a new spirit will rise to new life with a new body. We are not what we will be. The new will be neither male nor female, Jew or gentile.

Asa new creature. No commandment to be fruitful and multiply .A commandment that was not given to the angels another kind of creation. But again a new creation .Not rebuilt or recondition, not a placement models or manufacturers defects recall. She is described in Revelation 12. . its the end of time the Sun and Moon the temporal time keepers of corruption are under her feet .They have been replaced with the glory of God. There will be no night for evermore.

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation 21:23-25

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

1COR.15 [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: FOR THE TRUMPET SHALL SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY.

Death is swallowed up in victory at the 1Cor15 event

Where Paul is speaking of the "THIS" parts ^ (in this context [vv.51-54]), he is speaking in particular with regard to a "mystery" (something not yet disclosed, but which he/Paul was tasked with disclosing, in particular). He is not saying this is the 1Cor15:26 event (equivalent to the GWTj in Rev20:11 and context), and he is not speaking of the point in time that OT saints will be "resurrected" to enjoy their promised AND PROPHESIED earthly Millennial Kingdom that was previously "prophesied" about in OT scriptures (commencing at the time of His Second Coming to the earth); but is speaking of "a mystery" (not-yet having been disclosed, but that he is tasked with disclosing [because it pertains to/for/about "the Church which is His body" (Eph1:20-23 WHEN), not to all other saints of all OTHER time periods [in this specific context (re: "mystery")], and of course not to all persons unsaved either])

 

[garee]

Those [believers/saints] who DIE are "resurrected"... not all will DIE though.

Jesus spoke of two distinct things when He said (in John 11:25-26), "I am THE Resurrection AND THE Life: he that believeth in Me, though he were DEAD [speaking of those who DIE, here], yet SHALL he live: AND he that LIVETH [speaking of those LIVING (in contrast to those who DIE, just referred to prior to this)] and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?"

So I believe the context here is "the Last Day" (i.e. the MK age), and Jesus is speaking of those "still-living" persons [saints] who will ENTER the MK age (in mortal bodies capable of reproducing/bearing children), and will NEVER DIE... and this is because "THE LIFE HIMSELF" will be "RULING IN POWER" and He is ALL-POWERFUL! to do this (maintain their lives, throughout the MK--not an impossible feat, since even after the fall in the garden of Eden, ppl still lived very long lives). Do you believe when Jesus is here RULING IN POWER that HE can do this?

The word metaphor "thousand" in respect to whatever is in view to include time. in Revelation 20 represents a unknown according to its signified language. We walk by faith not of those of the numbers. Like David He was guilty of not walking by faith and numbered not moving according to the time table of God trusting in the things seen .Thousands suffered death because David refused to walk by faith.

The "last day" a reference used 6 times in the book of John reveals the coming of Christ as a thief in the night. And in the twinkling of the eye the believers receive their promised new bodies as death loses its power And death is cast into the lake of fire. Never to rise to kill as the letter of the law again. Not one Jot or tittle could enter the new order..

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The word metaphor "thousand" in respect to whatever is in view to include time. in Revelation 20 represents a unknown according to its signified language. We walk by faith not of those of the numbers. Like David He was guilty of not walking by faith and numbered not moving according to the time table of God trusting in the things seen .Thousands suffered death because David refused to walk by faith.

The "last day" a reference used 6 times in the book of John reveals the coming of Christ as a thief in the night. And in the twinkling of the eye the believers receive their promised new bodies as death loses its power And death is cast into the lake of fire. Never to rise to kill as the letter of the law again. Not one Jot or tittle could enter the new order..

garee, I think I've mentioned to you before, how I do not believe Scripture states that "Christ [HIMSELF] comes as a thief IN THE NIGHT"; instead, it states [of Him], "I come AS A THIEF." [period. NO "IN THE NIGHT" phrase accompanies this phrase when referring to HIM/HIS Own Personal coming / arrival].

Instead, Scripture states that it is "the Day of the Lord" that arrives "as a thief IN THE NIGHT" (which "DOTL" is a very specific, and very LONG period of time which involves both "judgments" and [then followed by] "BLESSING"), and is not a "singular 24-hr day" (but a period of time ONLY ever taking place "on the earth"<---having no connection whatsoever with our "Rapture," which is "IN THE AIR" [and Rapture precedes "the DOTL" time period (which time period ARRIVES to unfold upon the earth at the same time that "the man of sin" ARRIVES" to do ALL he will DO over the course of 7 years' time, the whole "IN THE NIGHT" aspect of "the DOTL" time period)]).

Jesus Himself comes/arrives WELL-AFTER that point in time (and is in connection with the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" portion of the DOTL time period). The phrase stated in connection WITH HIM (speaking of HIS ARRIVAL) does NOT state "as a thief IN THE NIGHT" though ppl commonly mis-state this, as being the case.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 12:48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I do not believe the phrase "the Last Day" refers to a singular 24-hr day, but a time period of long duration, with MUCH transpiring WITHIN it.


[another example is ppl extracting Isaiah 34:4 [2Pe3] from its overall and entire context of TWO WHOLE CHAPTS, which should be read together, chpts 34-35 of Isaiah, to get the whole picture there]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The word metaphor "thousand" in respect to whatever is in view to include time. in Revelation 20 represents a unknown according to its signified language.

That particular word is not a stand-alone word, here... It is set in a context of events being described in relation [SEQUENTIALLY/CHRONOLOGICALLY] to it, and must be understood in that way (no matter if you believe it is "an unknown" / "metaphor" / "signified language"), that's why it is even placed in Scripture, as it is (per its context).

 

[preston39]

And seeing here how the Rapturist believe so so so strongley in the rapture no matter what scripture says, when it doesnt come, there will be a great falling away from the faith. Just as prophesied.

The Bible clearly proves the rapture.
If you feel strongly that is not correct...then show scripture which denies the rapture?

The falling away is at the end times....like now....it is clearly happening. If you don't think so visit a few different churches on Sunday and make a note of how many folks are under....oh....say 30. Notice all the gray hair. When it goes to the grave the churches will close. We have had 5 well established Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal churches closed around here in the past 3 years...with more having less than 10-15 in church on Sunday. They can't pay their light bill.
We are clearly in the end times.