Twinkling of an eye

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preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
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he did not say 'scriptural direction to obey righteousness has been replaced'

he said trying to keep the law, whether some selected portion of it or whether all of it, for salvation, will not save anyone.


if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
(Galatians 3:21)

You are not even logical....enough said.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
113
You are not even logical....enough said.

dear Preston.

you just got busted totally misquoting the Bible.
and busted totally misrepresenting what another member said.


at the same time you are accusing people of 'spinning' things, you are spinning things.
at the same time you are telling people the gospel is unscriptural, you are misrepresenting and misquoting scripture.


and you blame it all on the 1960's.

you ought to examine your heart, and i pray you do not remain so bitter and deceived.
accusing me of things that you can't back up, just to save face, is stupid.
sin is forgiven when it is confessed. when you hide it, will God remember?


God loves 'filthy hippies' just as much as He loves you too. and He hates lies.


he that loveth instruction, loveth knowledge:
but he that hateth correction, is a fool.
(Proverbs 12:1 1587 GNV Bible)
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
dear Preston.

you just got busted totally misquoting the Bible.
and busted totally misrepresenting what another member said.


at the same time you are accusing people of 'spinning' things, you are spinning things.
at the same time you are telling people the gospel is unscriptural, you are misrepresenting and misquoting scripture.


and you blame it all on the 1960's.

you ought to examine your heart, and i pray you do not remain so bitter and deceived.
accusing me of things that you can't back up, just to save face, is stupid.
sin is forgiven when it is confessed. when you hide it, will God remember?


God loves 'filthy hippies' just as much as He loves you too. and He hates lies.


he that loveth instruction, loveth knowledge:
but he that hateth correction, is a fool.
(Proverbs 12:1 1587 GNV Bible)

Commentary rejected.

Stick with the Bible if you wish to posts with me.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
You are wrong....what a crock.

Christ death on the cross made forgiveness by grace available. In no way did it replace the scriptural direction for you and I to obey the laws of righteousness. Scripture tells us :...."sacrifice for forgiveness is not available where sin is present".
You are buying into .....new age religion teachings ........of which your belief here did not exist in popularity before 1960...think about it.
I'm not buying into anything, because I have not studied new age religion, nor has anyone taught it to me.

Whenever anyone brings in another requirement for salvation along side of Jesus finished word on the cross, they are trusting in their own efforts. It takes the focus off of Jesus and puts it on their works. Whereas, when we trust in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us, we are focused on Him.

No one will be saved by keeping the ten commandments or by performing any other works. Those who are trusting in Christ and are filled with the Spirit, will have the desire not to sin, but we are not under the law. Scripture makes it very clear that no one will be justified by keeping the law.

Further, why does scripture tell us to ....put on the coat of armor daily.
"Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes," is referring to standing in every facet of faith in order to stand against the schemes of the devil, not the keeping the ten commandments.

Why does the Lord's prayer include.....forgive us of our trespasses ....

Why does G-d not limit the number of time we can ask for forgiveness
Why does scripture tell us to....maintain (righteousness) until the end (death)...
Why
Because we as Christians are sinners. And as John says, "when we sin, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

Jesus came to fulfill the law which mankind was unable to do. Have never read:

"The sting of sin is death and the power of sin is the law."

When Jesus met the righteous requirements of the law, satisfying it completely, He took away the ammo that the powers of darkness used against us. The law condemns us when we fail at it and so Jesus met its requirements on our behalf. Now we are under a new covenant where we follow after the Lord and are led by the Spirit. Believers are no longer under the law. And attempting to keep the law cannot save anyone. As the scripture states:

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. " (NLT)

Regarding the keeping of the law, Paul uses an illustration of Israel who is attempting to obtain salvation by keeping the works of the law:

"What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works."

The question regarding salvation by keeping the law, was brought up when some Pharisaic believers were teaching that the Gentile believers must be circumcised and made to obey the Law of Moses, with the answer being as follows:

"But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter."

"After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days, God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe (Cornelius household). And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke (the law) that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Below are other random scriptures regarding the subject of law vs. Grace:

" Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."

"Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law."

"It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression." Ergo (The best way to not break the law is to have no law to break.)

"But now, by dying to what once bound us (the law), we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."

"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes"

I hope that you will understand Preston, that we are saved by grace through faith and not by the works of the law. Our focus should be on Christ as the One who provided salvation for us. And that when we sin as Christians, if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleans us from all unrighteousness. God see the believer with the righteousness of Christ because of faith. Believers do good words as a result of faith and will be rewarded for them. However, we are not saved by them.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
You are wrong....what a crock.

Christ death on the cross made forgiveness by grace available. In no way did it replace the scriptural direction for you and I to obey the laws of righteousness. Scripture tells us :...."sacrifice for forgiveness is not available where sin is present".
You are buying into .....new age religion teachings ........of which your belief here did not exist in popularity before 1960...think about it.

Further, why does scripture tell us to ....put on the coat of armor daily.
Why does the Lord's prayer include.....forgive us of our trespasses ....
Why does G-d not limit the number of time we can ask for forgiveness
Why does scripture tell us to....maintain (righteousness) until the end (death)...
Why
Why
Why.

There are many scriptures which refutes your thinking.
I would have to also say that, your response does not match what I said in my post to Wall. I am in full agreement that Christ death brought us grace. I also never said that Christ's death replaced scriptural direction. On the contrary, it is through scripture that I posted everything.

If anyone attempts to obtain salvation by keeping the law, that person will not inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus fulfilled it and we follow Him and are led by the Spirit. Jesus did not fulfill the law in order to perpetuate something that we could never keep. He fulfilled it as a human being because we couldn't.

Therefore as believers in Christ, the law has been fulfilled on our behalf.

God's wrath that every believer deserves was experienced by Christ and so His wrath no longer rests upon us

The reward for sin, which is death, has been paid for by Christ.

Unless there is a shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins. Christ fulfilled this by shedding His blood, making payment for all who believe in Him.

While Peter was still speaking to Cornelius and his household, the Spirit fell upon everyone so that they spoke in languages and prophesied and that without the promise of keeping the law or by performing any works and before being baptized. God cleansed their hearts by faith and faith alone.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,136
3,984
113
mywebsite.us
I have not read the entire thread; however, I believe it would be worthwhile to interject the suggestion to those who are clutching onto John 14:2-3 as "proof" of pre-trib rapture that the mansions mentioned in verse 2 are very-most-likely referring to the New Jerusalem on the New Earth during the Eternal Ages.

(I believe this is the best "fit" with all-scripture-as-a-whole...)

Which is after the 1000-year reign of Christ on the earth...

Which is after the second coming of Christ...

"food for thought..."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
113
Stick with the Bible

he that loveth instruction, loveth knowledge:
but he that hateth correction, is a fool.
(Proverbs 12:1)
For with one offering hath He consecrated forever them that are sanctified.
For the Holy Ghost also beareth us record: for after that He had said before,
this is the testament that I will make unto them after those days, saith the Lord,
I will put My laws in their heart, and in their minds I will write them.
and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more!
Now where remission of these things is, there is no more offering for sin.
Seeing therefore, brethren, that by the blood of Jesus we may be bold to enter into the holy place,
by the new and living way, which He hath prepared for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh:
and seeing we have an High Priest, which is over the house of God,
let us draw near with a true heart in assurance of faith, our hearts being pure from an evil conscience,
and washed in our bodies with pure water, let us keep the profession of our hope, without wavering, (for He is faithful that promised.)
(Hebrews 10:14-23)
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
I'm not buying into anything, because I have not studied new age religion, nor has anyone taught it to me.

Whenever anyone brings in another requirement for salvation along side of Jesus finished word on the cross, they are trusting in their own efforts. It takes the focus off of Jesus and puts it on their works. Whereas, when we trust in Christ as the One who provided salvation for us, we are focused on Him.

No one will be saved by keeping the ten commandments or by performing any other works. Those who are trusting in Christ and are filled with the Spirit, will have the desire not to sin, but we are not under the law. Scripture makes it very clear that no one will be justified by keeping the law.



"Put on the full armor of God, so that you can make your stand against the devil’s schemes," is referring to standing in every facet of faith in order to stand against the schemes of the devil, not the keeping the ten commandments.



Because we as Christians are sinners. And as John says, "when we sin, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

Jesus came to fulfill the law which mankind was unable to do. Have never read:

"The sting of sin is death and the power of sin is the law."

When Jesus met the righteous requirements of the law, satisfying it completely, He took away the ammo that the powers of darkness used against us. The law condemns us when we fail at it and so Jesus met its requirements on our behalf. Now we are under a new covenant where we follow after the Lord and are led by the Spirit. Believers are no longer under the law. And attempting to keep the law cannot save anyone. As the scripture states:

"God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. " (NLT)

Regarding the keeping of the law, Paul uses an illustration of Israel who is attempting to obtain salvation by keeping the works of the law:

"What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works."

The question regarding salvation by keeping the law, was brought up when some Pharisaic believers were teaching that the Gentile believers must be circumcised and made to obey the Law of Moses, with the answer being as follows:

"But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter."

"After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days, God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe (Cornelius household). And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke (the law) that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Below are other random scriptures regarding the subject of law vs. Grace:

" Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin."

"Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law."

"It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression." Ergo (The best way to not break the law is to have no law to break.)

"But now, by dying to what once bound us (the law), we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."

"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes"

I hope that you will understand Preston, that we are saved by grace through faith and not by the works of the law. Our focus should be on Christ as the One who provided salvation for us. And that when we sin as Christians, if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleans us from all unrighteousness. God see the believer with the righteousness of Christ because of faith. Believers do good words as a result of faith and will be rewarded for them. However, we are not saved by them.
I fully understand...but, I fear you don't........ Keeping G-d's laws is not......work. They are His commandments.
I see on this board a complete miss understanding about works.

My point is your conclusion as stated is a new age religion teaching...since the 1960's...research can not find it as a christian understanding before that. You must have got it in an earthly setting because you did not get it from G-d's word.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
113
I fully understand...but, I fear you don't........ Keeping G-d's laws is not......work. They are His commandments. I see on this board a complete miss understanding about works.

My point is your conclusion as stated is a new age religion teaching...since the 1960's...research can not find it as a christian understanding before that. You must have got it in an earthly setting because you did not get it from G-d's word.
My teaching is from the word of God and not 0from any 1960's teaching or any other teaching of men. I do all my own studies daily, and have done so for the past 45 years. These are my teachings, not someone else's.

Regarding the keeping of "God's law is not work" that is what the keeping of the law is always referred to, i.e. the keeping of the written code as a means of salvation. I showed you a good example of this and here it is again:

=====================================================================
"What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works.

"I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing."

"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written” “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.

"Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law."

"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."
====================================================================

I don't know how much clearer scripture can be on this subject. We are saved by grace through faith and this not of our own selves. It is the gift of God and not by works.

Anyone who is trusting in the keeping of the works of the law as a means of salvation will not inherit the kingdom of God. Instead, our eyes should be on Jesus who met the righteous requirements of the law on our behalf, satisfying it completely. Anyone who puts themselves under the law, must keep the whole law perfectly, all the time. Once you break the law in just one spot you've broken the whole law.

"For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations."

NLT version:

"For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations

"He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us (the law) and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross."

"The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God."

"By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear."

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant -- not of the letter (the law) but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

I hope that God will give you understanding regarding this, because believing this is necessary for salvation. If anyone is trying to obtain eternal life through keeping the works of the law, it will have the opposite affect, keeping those who do so out of the kingdom.

If someone was to ask us how we are saved, there should be only one answer "because Jesus provided it on the cross" and that without anyone's help.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
113
your conclusion as stated is a new age religion teaching...since the 1960's...research can not find it as a christian understanding before that.
Romans was written 2,000 years ago, Preston.

Romans 7:1-6
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to [her] husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of [her] husband. So then if, while [her] husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
1,417
154
63
Guys and dolls, i believe we are getting sidetracked a bit. It was my fault. Im sorry. Could we get back on topic?
 

Wall

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2013
1,417
154
63
So if the bride is Israel, wheres that leave the gentiles?

This is the last question i asked concerning the rapture. What do you think?
MATTHEW [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ya see what Jesus said

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD.

I MUST BRING! Jesus said there were “others” not of the fold of the house of Israel. These “others” are the gentiles that hear His voice. Them also He will bring.... Bring where? Bring to heaven as the raptuist claim? Nope. At the time when Jesus does bring us we will have but ONE SHEPHERD.

EZEKIEL 37 [21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER THEM on every side, and BRING THEM INTO THEIR OWN LAND: [22]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: [23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have ONE SHEPHERD: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. [25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. [26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. [27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Jesus gathers His people {in the twinkling of an eye} and BRINGS them to Israel, to the kingdom. We will have but ONE SHEPHERD

ZECHARIAH 8 [7] Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; [8] And I will BRING THEM, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD {Zeke37v27}, in truth and in righteousness

The kingdom rest will be in the midst of Jerusalem

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also THE SONS OF THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. [8] The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, YET WILL I GATHER OTHERS TO HIM, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Jesus brings them to His Holy Mountain. The kingdom rest. Yes, the “others” {John 10v16} {Isaiah 56v8} are the gentiles. So when the LAST TRUMPET {1Cor.15} sounds we meet the Lord in the air and Jesus “brings” us to His holy mountain in Jerusalem for the kingdom rest. Not off to heaven as the Rapturist claim.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
Romans was written 2,000 years ago, Preston.

Romans 7:1-6
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to [her] husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of [her] husband. So then if, while [her] husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

Not applicable...try again.
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
lol, how is the Bible not applicable?

maybe your 'religion' isn't based on it?

ah...the leftist spin...we shift from a stated book to ...the Bible. Correlate that for me ok?
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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MATTHEW [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ya see what Jesus said

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD.

I MUST BRING! Jesus said there were “others” not of the fold of the house of Israel. These “others” are the gentiles that hear His voice. Them also He will bring.... Bring where? Bring to heaven as the raptuist claim? Nope. At the time when Jesus does bring us we will have but ONE SHEPHERD.

EZEKIEL 37 [21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER THEM on every side, and BRING THEM INTO THEIR OWN LAND: [22]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: [23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have ONE SHEPHERD: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. [25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. [26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. [27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Jesus gathers His people {in the twinkling of an eye} and BRINGS them to Israel, to the kingdom. We will have but ONE SHEPHERD

ZECHARIAH 8 [7] Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will save my people from the east country, and from the west country; [8] And I will BRING THEM, and they shall dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD {Zeke37v27}, in truth and in righteousness

The kingdom rest will be in the midst of Jerusalem

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also THE SONS OF THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. [8] The Lord God which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, YET WILL I GATHER OTHERS TO HIM, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Jesus brings them to His Holy Mountain. The kingdom rest. Yes, the “others” {John 10v16} {Isaiah 56v8} are the gentiles. So when the LAST TRUMPET {1Cor.15} sounds we meet the Lord in the air and Jesus “brings” us to His holy mountain in Jerusalem for the kingdom rest. Not off to heaven as the Rapturist claim.
Book of ruth. The bride is gentile

The pretrib rapture is to heaven.
Jesus said "I go (to heaven) to prepare a place for you."
Rev 19 jesus returns WITH HIS BRIDE.
MAT 25 Has Jesus LEAVING with his bride.
For what? The marrige chamber.

You have to leave all that out for a gamble on a trumpet
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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MATTHEW [24] But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Ya see what Jesus said

JOHN 10 [14] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [15] As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [16] And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, WHICH ARE NOT OF THIS FOLD: THEM ALSO I MUST BRING, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and ONE SHEPHERD.

I MUST BRING! Jesus said there were “others” not of the fold of the house of Israel. These “others” are the gentiles that hear His voice. Them also He will bring.... Bring where? Bring to heaven as the raptuist claim? Nope. At the time when Jesus does bring us we will have but ONE SHEPHERD.
That both Jew and Gentile have One Shepherd is true, i.e. all Jews and Gentiles who believe in Christ are one body in Christ. However, you also have the nation Israel who did not and do not recognize Jesus as their Messiah. It is with unbelieving Israel that God is going to deal with during the tribulation period, as well as with the Gentiles who have rejected Christ.

At the time when the gathering of the church (rapture) takes place, both believing Jews and Gentiles of the dead in Christ will be raised and caught up. In opposition, the unbelieving nation of Israel will remain on the earth during the tribulation period in fulfillment of that last seven years.

It's just an understanding that both believing Jew and Gentile make up the church and that it is the unbelieving nation of Israel that God is going to deal with.

EZEKIEL 37 [21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will GATHER THEM on every side, and BRING THEM INTO THEIR OWN LAND: [22]And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: [23] Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have ONE SHEPHERD: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. [25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. [26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. [27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.

Jesus gathers His people {in the twinkling of an eye} and BRINGS them to Israel, to the kingdom. We will have but ONE SHEPHERD
The gathering of the nation Israel is referring to the process of bringing them back into their own land and is not referring to them being gathered "in the twinkling of an eye." You are attempting to force the information regarding the church onto the gathering of the nation Israel, which are two separate events, one being and event and the other being a process which takes place over time.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I fully understand...but, I fear you don't........ Keeping G-d's laws is not......work. They are His commandments.
I see on this board a complete miss understanding about works.
Yes His commandment as his determined will that works in us to both will, commandment and do, strengthening us who are yoked with him as a finished work called a imputed righteous,

Its His work of faith working in us not of us. if we say the faith of Christ the faith that comes from hearing is us then we have blasphemed the very name that gives us the power to believe.

We have the power to perform the commabment in these earthen bodies of death but again not of us in any way shape or form

The commandment verse 1. "have not".

James 2 King James Version (KJV) My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

Having that miracle our first experience of his love in us by which we could beleive God. Having it in respect to our own selves false pride) or other leaders as men seen it does cause blaspheme his unseen authority ...which is attributed the work of Christ who does work in us to another to include one self.

James 2:7 King James Version (KJV) Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?

Many today make that commandment into a clothing fad missing the point which he needed to understand the rest of the chapter.

One of the reason some pit James against Paul trying to reconcile Ephesians 2. 8-10

Same kind of commandment as the first .Walk by faith the unseen eternal. . have no other gods again to include oneself before him

My point is your conclusion as stated is a new age religion teaching...since the 1960's...research can not find it as a Christian understanding before that. You must have got it in an earthly setting because you did not get it from G-d's word.
New age is nothing but old age revisited . It what many don't learn about history that it repeats itself . At the fall of any empire moral issues killed the ruling government Sola scriptura is the reforming restoring authority in any generation or false form of the government not of our God . . . as it is written
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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...we shift from a stated book to ...the Bible. Correlate that for me ok?
Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to [her] husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of [her] husband. So then if, while [her] husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
(Romans 7:1-6)