Two questions

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Dec 9, 2011
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#81
Although EVERYTHING was created by GOD, man had a choice,a choice to obedient or disobedient,he chose not to listen to the voice of GOD and the consequence was the sin nature,Adam chose to listen to a voice that was contrary to GODs WORD.
no, the consequence was the *knowledge* of sin nature, and the revocation of permission to eat of the tree of life.
So then we delight In the law of GOD after the Inward man but we see another law In our flesh warring against the law of our minds because of the KNOWLEDGE of sin learned from being disobedient to GOD eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) In our flesh and bringing us Into captivity to the law of sin because of the knowledge of sin which Is In our flesh.

Would I be right saying mankind’s knowledge of sin Is what caused the sin nature?

I guess man just didn’t know how bad the consequences of disobedience would be.
After reading your post that said that the sin nature wasn't the consequence of disobedience but the knowledge of sin was the consequence of disobedience I thought about It and I realized that you are right but I think we are on the same page It's just that you are being more precise about It.🤗
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#82
I disagree. You interpreted something I said, like brother didymous, erroneously. That does not mean I was in error.

Edit: furthermore, what you quoted was not even central to my point, so you didnt even give the time to understand anything. simply shut down and dismiss. lol. cognitive dissonance 101.
seeing that i didn't do anything except quote where you said "they were deceived" and correct it by citing where scripture specifies that Adam was not deceived -- and added no other comment -- how is it you have decided i didn't "understand anything" and that i "shut down" and "dismiss" or that i "interpreted" anything "erroneously" since i gave no interpretation or even any statement that hinted at an interpretation of any kind?

"cognitive dissonance" = simultaneously holding two mutually exclusive ideas.

  • you say that i "didn't have the decency" to even address anything that you wrote.
  • then you say that i "interpreted erroneously" what you wrote.

___________________________________:unsure:
 
Apr 3, 2019
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#83
Dont you see? Adam didnt even KNOW he was disobeying God, or at the very least -- didnt KNOW there was anything wrong with doing so.
(Gen 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will surely die.")

Thou shalt not comment on this post.

.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#84
Genesis 3:22-23 (paraphrased) Behold! Man has become like one of us, knowing the difference between good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and eat from the tree of life and live forever, Therefore God banished them from the garden and made them to til the land whence the came.
have you ever noticed that He only said this about Adam -- not to both of them?
and that He said this, not when they ate - but when Adam changed the name of the Woman to Eve?

btw "
the difference between" isn't in the text. only "knowing good and evil"

don't be mad because i am telling you, bruh.
i am telling you because these are important details. if we do not get all the details right, we do not get Genesis 3 right. for example, we have to know Adam was not deceived. if we think he was, we have it wrong.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#85
1. Did God create man with a sin nature.

2. Does God view sin different if we are tricked by the devil. vrs listening to another.



Please be civil and present scripture proof. Personal opinions are just that. If you bring popcorn be willing to share. And please don't derail.
1.God created man with a desire to do the will of the Creator not seen . Mankind out of all the beasts of the field was created in a relationship of faith. Because of pride wanting to have a equal standing with the Creator mankind lost that faith, as a ability to please God. Mankind hearkened unto the voice of the strange one. The god of this corrupted world.

2. It is he that he desire we listen to, as he lovingly commands us. The commandment and not just a good suggestion is study to show oneself approved unto God. It will prove we are not the voice of god we are to follow .But we would follow Paul as he followed Christ... by faith, a work of Christ that worked in Paul with Paul a imputed righteousness not of our ownselves.
 
Apr 11, 2019
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#86
1. Did God create man with a sin nature.

2. Does God view sin different if we are tricked by the devil. vrs listening to another.



Please be civil and present scripture proof. Personal opinions are just that. If you bring popcorn be willing to share. And please don't derail.
Romans 5:12 KJV
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Sin was NOT in the world nor in Adam (sin nature) until they disobeyed God and ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

1 Timothy 2:14 KJV
[14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Even if you are “deceived” you are STILL in transgression and held accountable. Being ignorant of the law wouldn’t exempt one from the consequences of violating the law.
 
Apr 11, 2019
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#87
have you ever noticed that He only said this about Adam -- not to both of them?
and that He said this, not when they ate - but when Adam changed the name of the Woman to Eve?

btw "
the difference between" isn't in the text. only "knowing good and evil"

don't be mad because i am telling you, bruh.
i am telling you because these are important details. if we do not get all the details right, we do not get Genesis 3 right. for example, we have to know Adam was not deceived. if we think he was, we have it wrong.
Adam disobeyed. Eve was deceived. I gave references earlier!
 
Apr 11, 2019
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#88
So adam and eves free will was not perfect?

Sorry, But I can not agree with this statement



The beast of the field is not made in Gods image, so it would not apply. The beast is doing what comes naturally to him. Adam and eve did not. They went against the natural order and chose to go their own way.
Animals are NEVER guilty of sin anyway. So this point has no scriptural case.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#89
if adam and even were created perfect "in all ways" then they wouldn't have disobeyed. Furthermore, they wouldn't have even listened to the serpent babble on. the fact that they ate of the fruit tells you they were not perfect in all ways.

look at the beast of the field. it fornicates, but it is not guilty of fornication. I think this is what OP was trying to establish as a thought. If it is not what OP was going for, then I apologize but it is what I have been wondering lately.
Created and perfect are two words that do mix. Only God is perfect. Only God is good. Good defines his work .Perfect has to with complete. .He is the author and perfecter as the perfect Faithful Creator. He calls what he creates good not perfect.

As long as we wait for our new bodies the work of perfecting our new spirits will go on.

Mankind like the angels that were not made of the dust of field were not created with a what some call "free will" . Mankind chose to the do will of another being that wanted the father of lies own free will .Mankind has it born without the faith to please another

Free will to a Christian is to do the will of the father, Food that the world knows not of.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#90
Animals are NEVER guilty of sin anyway. So this point has no scriptural case.
Yes, they are not subject to salvation . The commandment was to mankind . Not animal or other kinds made of the rudiments of this world or the angel kind not made of the rudiments. Neither are subject to salvation.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#91
Animals are NEVER guilty of sin anyway. So this point has no scriptural case.
not that i am disagreeing with you, but what you said here reminded me of this: at the garden the Serpent is "cursed above all cattle" --- what???

i'm interested to hear any thoughts about that?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#92
Created and perfect are two words that do mix. Only God is perfect. Only God is good. Good defines his work .Perfect has to with complete. .He is the author and perfecter as the perfect Faithful Creator. He calls what he creates good not perfect.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(Ezekiel 28:15)

perhaps this should be "
blameless" ?
 
Apr 11, 2019
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#93
Ezekiel 28:14-15 KJV
[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so : thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. [15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Note “Lucifer” (his name BEFORE his fall) was “the anointed cherub”. He was a Cherub NOT an angel!

Ezekiel 28:16 KJV
[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

This is what Lucifer was. Now he has fallen! He was “cursed ABOVE all cattle” doesn’t say he was cattle. He was simply cursed ABOVE the cattle although scripture clearly shows Satan is a beast, a calf, a serpent, a dragon, the devil, etc.
 
Apr 11, 2019
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#94
not that i am disagreeing with you, but what you said here reminded me of this: at the garden the Serpent is "cursed above all cattle" --- what???

i'm interested to hear any thoughts about that?
I answered this on another post but here goes... “cursed above all cattle” means simply that. Is Lucifer a cow? He is manifest as a serpent, a beast, false prophet, Antichrist, a dragon, etc. But not a single verse teaches that an animal can sin. Satan is NOT an angel although he is “transformed into an angel of light”. He’s transformed! He’s not an angel nor is he of light. He mascarades and pretends.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 KJV
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

And speaking on so many threads about “works” you clearly see how folks “end” will be “according to their works”
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#95
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(Ezekiel 28:15)

perhaps this should be "blameless" ?
Perfect. That would be my choice.

Perfect... having no needs but satisfying all.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#96
I answered this on another post but here goes... “cursed above all cattle” means simply that. Is Lucifer a cow? He is manifest as a serpent, a beast, false prophet, Antichrist, a dragon, etc. But not a single verse teaches that an animal can sin. Satan is NOT an angel although he is “transformed into an angel of light”. He’s transformed! He’s not an angel nor is he of light. He mascarades and pretends.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 KJV
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

And speaking on so many threads about “works” you clearly see how folks “end” will be “according to their works”
You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
(Ezekiel 28:14)

not an angel? then this is about the king of Tyre? hmm..


but "
cursed above all cattle" -- does this mean cattle are cursed? how/why ?
or does it mean something else?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#97
Perfect. That would be my choice.

Perfect... having no needs but satisfying all.
so then we have someone created, called perfect... we also have Hebrews 10:14, that Christ has perfected forever all those being made holy: also the created, being called perfected.

very often i wonder if i just don't know the right vocabulary, or if human language, post-Babel, just fails at certain points to express
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#98
but "cursed above all cattle" -- does this mean cattle are cursed? how/why ?
or does it mean something else?
in re: why, i think we must pass through here:

For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the One who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
(Romans 8:19-22)


i realize i'm side-tracking the thread some, but i do believe it's connected, and we can search out how :)

 
Mar 28, 2016
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#99
I answered this on another post but here goes... “cursed above all cattle” means simply that. Is Lucifer a cow? He is manifest as a serpent, a beast, false prophet, Antichrist, a dragon, etc. But not a single verse teaches that an animal can sin. Satan is NOT an angel although he is “transformed into an angel of light”. He’s transformed! He’s not an angel nor is he of light. He mascarades and pretends.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 KJV
[14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

And speaking on so many threads about “works” you clearly see how folks “end” will be “according to their works”
Mankind is the only creature subject to salvation. Not other animals of the field or angels as messenger of the word of God.

Yes Satan is the father of lying spirits a angel of darkness who transforms himself as a if he was an angel of light. .

Not a beast of the field created from the rudiments of this world. .Angel as ministering spirts they have no DNA .None needed to bring the spiritual truths of God.

"Cursed above all cattle” is in reference to he is cursed above all things created because of the corruption, when God corrupted it . I think at the end of the third day . Corruption began with the father of lies. You say cursed above the whole creation as the cause..

Job refers to the lying spirit that works in the heart of natural unconverted man the father of lies. To the worm, "destruction his mother and sister".

Job 17:14I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Ezekiel 28:14-15 KJV
[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so : thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. [15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Note “Lucifer” (his name BEFORE his fall) was “the anointed cherub”. He was a Cherub NOT an angel!

Ezekiel 28:16 KJV
[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

This is what Lucifer was. Now he has fallen! He was “cursed ABOVE all cattle” doesn’t say he was cattle. He was simply cursed ABOVE the cattle although scripture clearly shows Satan is a beast, a calf, a serpent, a dragon, the devil, etc.
sorry i didn't see this before i brought up Ezekiel 28 myself --

cherubim aren't angels?