Two questions

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Mar 28, 2016
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so then we have someone created, called perfect... we also have Hebrews 10:14, that Christ has perfected forever all those being made holy: also the created, being called perfected.

very often i wonder if i just don't know the right vocabulary, or if human language, post-Babel, just fails at certain points to express

I would think the first perfect was in respect to blameless. The testing of the faith principle.... obeying the voice of Him not seen . Not perfected forever. Mankind fell to show the perfect in respect to our promised new incorruptible bodies that today have a living hope that will not disappoint us. The sure word... not like they had in part post-Babel. The perfect word has come sealed with 7 seals to the end of time.
 
Apr 11, 2019
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sorry i didn't see this before i brought up Ezekiel 28 myself --

cherubim aren't angels?
The Bible says a Cherub or (the plural) Cherubims have wings and 4 faces each. Angels NEVER have wings and they appear as men in scripture very often. They are NEVER women nor are they babies (Cupid). Angels are also NEVER said to have mire than one face. The Cherubims have 4 wings.

Ezekiel 1:6-10 KJV
[6] And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. [7] And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. [8] And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. [9] Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward. [10] As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

The Seraphims or (singular) Seraph have 6 wings. See Isaiah 6:2. The Cherumims have 4 wings. The angels are NOT the same! They are all “heavenly hosts” I believe. However “the holy scriptures” never say either one are angels. I hope this helps some. God knows I’m still learning “the scripture of truth”
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
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in Judaism, they look at the 'fallen angels' as destroyers and adversaries,
just doing their job - like in Job and the 'lying spirit' quoted above...

will the cherubs that surround the Throne betray their Maker?
well, at one time in history, 'one' surely did, and 1/3 of the angels followed...

what is the difference between cherubs and angels?
higher 'rank'???

cherub = not a whole lot of info, but to us, would appear 'rank', as in closer to God -
angel = messenger, as in a devine-being or human-being -
as in the name Malachi, which means 'messenger of God'...
 
Apr 10, 2019
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have you ever noticed that He only said this about Adam -- not to both of them?
and that He said this, not when they ate - but when Adam changed the name of the Woman to Eve?


btw "the difference between" isn't in the text. only "knowing good and evil"

don't be mad because i am telling you, bruh.
i am telling you because these are important details. if we do not get all the details right, we do not get Genesis 3 right. for example, we have to know Adam was not deceived. if we think he was, we have it wrong.
have you ever noticed that He only said this about Adam -- not to both of them?
and that He said this, not when they ate - but when Adam changed the name of the Woman to Eve?


btw "the difference between" isn't in the text. only "knowing good and evil"

don't be mad because i am telling you, bruh.
i am telling you because these are important details. if we do not get all the details right, we do not get Genesis 3 right. for example, we have to know Adam was not deceived. if we think he was, we have it wrong.
Wow. where to begin. Look man, I said the scripture was paraphrased. But lets look at this logically. Go ahead and remove the difference between. Now it says "to know good and evil" or "knowing good and evil." If one does not know good and evil, then their is no contrast to that person. Things are neither good, nor evil; things just are. So, knowing the differenece between two things is vital if you, or anyone else, is going to "know" the thing individually. That is necessarily true of all things.

Secondly, if you think Adam was not deceived then you are silly. If you are trying to establish that there is no scriptural basis for me to claim "Adam was deceived by the serpent," then how lucky for me that I did not say that here. But if you think Adam ate of the fruit with 100% spiritual clarity (i.e. without deception), then I think you are as deceived as he was.
 
Apr 10, 2019
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(Gen 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will surely die.")

Thou shalt not comment on this post.

.
right, but prior to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, did he have knowledge of good and evil i.e. of obedience and disobedience? Can you know one is correct and one is wrong if you have no knowledge of it?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Secondly, if you think Adam was not deceived then you are silly.
Adam was not deceived
(1 Timothy 2:14)

if Paul is silly, let me be silly too!
if the Spirit of God who breathes scripture is silly, let me be also!
amen!
but if you hold your own thinking & philosophizing in higher esteem than the plain words of scripture, what do i have with you?


however before you decide to plug your ears in avoidance, putting me on 'ignore' ((like it's some kind of way to punish me? lol)), would you mind addressing this post, where i asked you some questions?
you are not the first person i have met here who has this doctrine, but all the others have left the forum in one way or another, without me having been able to get explanation from them. i'd be grateful if you could flesh out the thinking behind all that.
thanks :)



in Revelation, Jesus says "...and I will give to him permission to eat from the tree of life..." i.e. humanity restored to its original condition, where "the former things will be remembered no more," i.e. we will have no KNOWLEDGE of the former things, which are of course contemporary to us.
you are saying the tree of life is the tree of ignorance?

lack of knowledge = life?

God says His people are destroyed for lack of knowledge
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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The Bible says a Cherub or (the plural) Cherubims have wings and 4 faces each. Angels NEVER have wings and they appear as men in scripture very often. They are NEVER women nor are they babies (Cupid). Angels are also NEVER said to have mire than one face. The Cherubims have 4 wings.

Ezekiel 1:6-10 KJV
[6] And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. [7] And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass. [8] And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. [9] Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward. [10] As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

The Seraphims or (singular) Seraph have 6 wings. See Isaiah 6:2. The Cherumims have 4 wings. The angels are NOT the same! They are all “heavenly hosts” I believe. However “the holy scriptures” never say either one are angels. I hope this helps some. God knows I’m still learning “the scripture of truth”
A side note... "im" on the end of a Hebrew word indicates plurality; "Elohim" is a plural word. "Cherubims" is grammatically incorrect; the plural in Hebrew is cherubim; the plural in English is cherubs.
 
Apr 10, 2019
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Adam was not deceived
(1 Timothy 2:14)

if Paul is silly, let me be silly too!
if the Spirit of God who breathes scripture is silly, let me be also!
amen!
but if you hold your own thinking & philosophizing in higher esteem than the plain words of scripture, what do i have with you?


however before you decide to plug your ears in avoidance, putting me on 'ignore' ((like it's some kind of way to punish me? lol)), would you mind addressing this post, where i asked you some questions?
you are not the first person i have met here who has this doctrine, but all the others have left the forum in one way or another, without me having been able to get explanation from them. i'd be grateful if you could flesh out the thinking behind all that.
thanks :)
ill look at your other post in a second, but if youre going to quote scripture, then pull it out like the rest of us, or I will not answer that. Especially from you, who has followed me around nitpicking at everything I have said because you have all of the answers.


Edit: looked at the one you want me to address, but it seems like the Spirit that resides in me has given you your answer before I even looked. If you missed it, here it is -- if you are going to use scripture, then post it like the rest of us.
 
Apr 11, 2019
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A side note... "im" on the end of a Hebrew word indicates plurality; "Elohim" is a plural word. "Cherubims" is grammatically incorrect; the plural in Hebrew is cherubim; the plural in English is cherubs.
What? Do you actually speak Hebrew? I speak English so that’s what I base my beliefs on.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
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God commanded Adam, and Adam chose to dis-obey -
I'd hide to, if I willingly dis-obeyed The Creator of the universe -
course we all know now that it won't do any good to try and hide, so why
even go there???
nuff said...
 
Apr 11, 2019
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right, but prior to eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, did he have knowledge of good and evil i.e. of obedience and disobedience? Can you know one is correct and one is wrong if you have no knowledge of it?
No they didn’t have “the knowledge of good and evil” before eating of the forbidden tree! That’s the fruit of that true was “the knowledge of good and evil”. If we are naked we are ashamed.

Genesis 2:25 KJV
[25] And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

They weren’t ashamed UNTIL they ate the forbidden fruit!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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nobody disobeys during a moment of spiritual clarity.
um..

although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
(Romans 1:21)
?
although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
(Romans 1:32)

??

what's all this then?
 
Apr 11, 2019
65
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in Judaism, they look at the 'fallen angels' as destroyers and adversaries,
just doing their job - like in Job and the 'lying spirit' quoted above...

will the cherubs that surround the Throne betray their Maker?
well, at one time in history, 'one' surely did, and 1/3 of the angels followed...

what is the difference between cherubs and angels?
higher 'rank'???

cherub = not a whole lot of info, but to us, would appear 'rank', as in closer to God -
angel = messenger, as in a devine-being or human-being -
as in the name Malachi, which means 'messenger of God'...
Ok
 
Apr 10, 2019
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No they didn’t have “the knowledge of good and evil” before eating of the forbidden tree! That’s the fruit of that true was “the knowledge of good and evil”. If we are naked we are ashamed.

Genesis 2:25 KJV
[25] And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

They weren’t ashamed UNTIL they ate the forbidden fruit!
that was exactly my point.
 
Apr 10, 2019
69
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um..

although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
(Romans 1:21)
?
although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
(Romans 1:32)
??

what's all this then?
proof of my point.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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have you ever noticed that He only said this about Adam -- not to both of them?
and that He said this, not when they ate - but when Adam changed the name of the Woman to Eve?

btw "
the difference between" isn't in the text. only "knowing good and evil"

don't be mad because i am telling you, bruh.
i am telling you because these are important details. if we do not get all the details right, we do not get Genesis 3 right. for example, we have to know Adam was not deceived. if we think he was, we have it wrong.
I’m thinking that adam at one point had to decide should I be obedient to GOD or should I listen to the flesh which Is because I love eve?
Just wondering about that.🙂