Unconstitutional

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#21
Paul (through the Holy Spirit) said obey government (which God has ordained for your protection) so it will go well with you. Rom. 13
We are to obey the laws of our government as long as it does not contradict God's law. It will go well with you to read Heb 10:27-29 and Acts 5:29.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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#22
“If there is a Governmental Law that breaches the Constitution otuS and the lawful Amendments, doesn’t Romans 13 teach we are to not resist that Law, but to obey it, for otherwise it would be to resist God?”

“Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers (authorities). For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.” – Romans 13:1 KJB​
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” – Matthew 28:18 KJB​
“Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.” – Romans 13:2 KJB​
“For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:” – Romans 13:3 KJB​
“For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” – Romans 13:4 KJB​
“Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.” – Romans 13:5 KJB​
“For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.” – Romans 13:6 KJB​
“Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.” – Romans 13:7 KJB​

God’s word says we are to Fear Him above all:
“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man (Hebrew: Adam).” – Ecclesiastes 12:13 KJB​

Honour God above all:
“Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith … them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.”​
– 1 Samuel 2:30 KJB​
Honour thy father (above; Mat. 6:9 KJB) and thy mother (above; Gal. 4:26 KJB): that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.” – Exodus 20:12 KJB​

Honour God’ commandments above the commandments of men:
“The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.” – Isaiah 42:21 KJB​
“If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:” – Isaiah 58:13 KJB​
“Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.” – Acts 5:29 KJB​

What about the text which says to Honour the King?

“Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.” – 1 Peter 2:17 KJB​

Notice that the text in context (1 Pet. 2:16-17 KJB) says, “… as the servants of GodFear God …”

God comes first, before human kings, authorities and laws.

God is the KING of Kings. He is the supreme King above all kings, thrones, dominions, principalities and powers:

“KING of Kings” (1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14, 19:16 KJB)

Also, for those who live in the united States, the “President” (or Supreme Court, Senate or House) is not a “King”, but is (or supposed to be) a duly elected representative of the people in the Executive Branch of Government, subject to the people, subject to the united States Constitution and its proper Amendments.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” – 1st Amendment of the united States Constitution (highest human authority).​

Notice these words:

They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off.” – Hosea 8:4 KJB​
Who gave their power (authority) to the Beast?

“… the dragon gave him (the Beast, Rev. 13:1 KJB) his power, and his seat, and great authority.” – Revelation 13:2 KJB​

Why? Because the Beast (Rev. 13:1 KJB) worships the Dragon (Rev. 12:1 KJB):

“And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” – Luke 4:6-7 KJB​

What about, “Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves …” (Hebrews 13:17 KJB)?

It (Heb. 13:17 KJB) is in the context of:

Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.” – Hebrews 13:7 KJB​

Hebrews 13:17 KJB is speaking about following the conduct of good (not evil) ministers and elders in the church (not political Governments).

Do not let others deceive you when they abuse this text.

“Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.” – Romans 13:8 KJB​
“For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” – Romans 13:9 KJB​
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” – Romans 13:10 KJB​
“And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.” – Romans 13:11 KJB​
“The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.” – Romans 13:12 KJB​
Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.” – Romans 13:13 KJB​
“But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.” – Romans 13:14 KJB​

Final warning:

“My son, fear thou the LORD and the king (Jesus, the Christians King, whose kingdom is not of this world; John 18:36 KJB): and meddle not with them that are given to change (Daniel 7:25 KJB):” – Proverbs 24:21 KJB​

(Obama’s ‘change’, ‘we are change’, ‘loose (unleash) change’, ‘solidarity’, are all Jesuit run)​
You might ought to include Heb 10:27-29 in your studies. And also take in consideration the 1st amendment of the constitution of the United states of America.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#24
We are to obey the laws of our government as long as it does not contradict God's law. It will go well with you to read Heb 10:27-29 and Acts 5:29.
Paul said do not forsake the assembling of ourselves.
Now ask yourself do we need that to worship, pray, fellowship with the Lord. No we don't all have to come together to do that.
The pastor I'm my opinion tempted God. As a loving Shepherd he should of found another way to communicate with the flock as many other churches did.
 
Feb 1, 2020
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#26
It's a very good question. I could see that being a very narrow decision with both sides being able to make fairly good arguments, it's hard to say what way it would be decided in real life. I do think that the preacher from Florida does have the more solid case though.
 
Mar 5, 2020
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#27
If any form of government, being it city, state, or national establishes a law that says it is against the law to assemble for the purpose of worshiping God, it would be contrary to the constitution of the United States. If the Preacher who was arrested and put in jail in Florida was to file a lawsuit, He would win. What do you think?
As I understand it he turned himself in to police. I think he should have called the media and had them await the arrival at his church of the police. And so they could arrest him there. Bigger statement against the police.

I think this is going to be a very interesting opportunity to maybe further the gap in the implied Constitutional guarantee of separation of church and state.

Virginia's Liberty University was open for awhile after that state's governor declared a shut down for non-essential businesses and the like. Falwell Jr. took a lot of heat for the decision to let students return from break and continue as usual.

I don't like the tone of some advertisers now who are claiming this is our new normal. Or our new way of life. As if to imply a permanence to what is currently in place.
Banks are by appointment only. All business is otherwise strictly ATM or drive-thru.
What about people who need eye exams? Dental appointments?
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#29
the Constitution does not guarantee common sense

I understand the seriousness of the virus, but I also know that the constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." If the people choose not to meet together, that is their rightful choice, but if the government arrests you for attending a worship service, it is against the constitution of the United States.
the 'religious' images in this thread are simply that...images

not one upholds anything other than the idea that somehow God is being trodden upon

sorry

that happened in this country a long time ago

if a person is that selfish that they say they can do whatever they want no matter if they spread a disease or a virus or whatever....then I don't think they understand why the Constitution was written in the first place

the mentality that comes up with yelling about your rights when people are dying is enough to make a person wonder how much longer until some loonie starts shooting
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#30
America does not exist without the Bible as its foundation.
the Bible is not the foundation of Amercia

dream on

I am now going to exit this thread as easily as I came into it

some would call that freedom

if you need laws for your freedom, then you must need to be told you are free because you do not know what it is

you really do not have a clue about what it is you say you believe in

you are not ready to die for your beliefs and you would uphold yourself before another IMO

perhaps be reminded of Paul who considered himself content in jail for preaching the gospel
 

WithinReason

Active member
Feb 21, 2020
929
136
43
#31
the mentality that comes up with yelling about your rights when people are dying
Don't believe the hype:

Italy is lying

https://www.bitchute.com/video/EfYUnUAVvpgz/

CBS caught reusing footage from Italy, for New York:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/TGZuM9nLQR8s/

Blockade in Australia? not so much:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/d2Lv27cvE73B/

Show Me Your Papers:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/GtFgfUh0whux/

12 Dr's - 12 statements.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/xQKWnXXqlB6f/
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,837
4,489
113
#32
I am not saying that it is not for national security, but national security cannot override the 1st amendment. As long as President Trump keeps it as a suggestion, he is in his rights and not overriding the 1st amendment.
https://www.heritage.org/homeland-security/report/how-must-america-balance-security-and-liberty

In balance of security and liberty it is a 3 branch process. In this Pandemic we are quite unified on the concept of isolation and social distancing. After all many of our hospitals are full, and people dying everyday. This is not a law but temporary guidelines in order to save lives. States are quite unified on the same response which is even closer to we the people. All the checks and balances makes it hard to taking away the first amendment. Obviously there will be many cases that will probably reach the supreme court on how to handle future pandemics. Ultimately in the past people didn't understand how the epidemic occurred so people just died in great numbers. Our country hasn't had to deal with this for almost a century. It will definitely have some court decisions and probably changed guidelines for future generations, much like how many different things changed after 9/11.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,837
4,489
113
#33
Don't believe the hype:

Italy is lying

https://www.bitchute.com/video/EfYUnUAVvpgz/

CBS caught reusing footage from Italy, for New York:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/TGZuM9nLQR8s/

Blockade in Australia? not so much:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/d2Lv27cvE73B/

Show Me Your Papers:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/GtFgfUh0whux/

12 Dr's - 12 statements.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/xQKWnXXqlB6f/
I know people who have personally lost loved ones to this. Or in critical condition. Our hospital is full. They are choosing who lives or dies. My neighbor works at the hospital and is telling us it is chaotic and the morgue is getting new bodies everyday. His wife has tested positive. Monday was 9 deaths in one day. And new people keep getting admitted. CDS has called this a covid 19 explosion. Now being classified as a Airborne virus. This started from 2 funerals and a fish fry. So far 24 people from the funeral was infected. So yes someone is lying. This is all 1st hand knowledge or eye witness accounts.
 

blueluna5

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2018
650
387
63
#34
If any form of government, being it city, state, or national establishes a law that says it is against the law to assemble for the purpose of worshiping God, it would be contrary to the constitution of the United States. If the Preacher who was arrested and put in jail in Florida was to file a lawsuit, He would win. What do you think?
Why couldn't they assemble virtually?

I think this generation is too sue happy. Common sense works better. At best that church is being naive... At worst it's greed since they may not get as much money.
 
Oct 25, 2018
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#35
I am in agreement that it is a good suggestion not to assemble in large groups, But it is still unconstitutional to restrict groups from meeting together for the purpose of praising and honoring God. Heb 10:25, Not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together, as the manner of some is, but exhorting one another, and so much more, as ye see the day approaching. Acts 5:27-29, And when they had brought them, they set them before the council, and the high priest ask them, Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. Then Peter and the other Apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than man.
The pastor of any local church is the shepherd of those sheep. The shepherd is to love and care for them. What he did was very wrong, in my opinion. Seems like there was a church that met, and 20+ became infected with COVID-19. If the pastor truly cares for his flock, he would not put them in potential peril.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,075
1,700
113
#37
I understand the seriousness of the virus, but I also know that the constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." If the people choose not to meet together, that is their rightful choice, but if the government arrests you for attending a worship service, it is against the constitution of the United States.
Congress did not make this a LAW. It is a temporary restriction. You are free to worship with your family, but gatherings of 10 or more are temporarily prevented.

It's not a law.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,837
4,489
113
#39
I do not believe you. I know better. Thank you for your scare tactics, but I ain't buyin'.
Just received a 5:30 a.m. text message saying my wife's co worker's husband passed away last night due to covid 19. My friend from High school lost his dad due to covid 19. But you dont have to believe me. Natural selection at its finest with people like you. That is okay, just hope you dont kill others.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,837
4,489
113
#40
The pastor of any local church is the shepherd of those sheep. The shepherd is to love and care for them. What he did was very wrong, in my opinion. Seems like there was a church that met, and 20+ became infected with COVID-19. If the pastor truly cares for his flock, he would not put them in potential peril.
This has happened in my hometown. 1 lady confirmed was the first death from a church gathering. And another from the same church my mother works with tested positive and in the hospital.