Understanding God’s election

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dougcho

Member
#181
Oct 28, 2024
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#181
Everlasting-Grace said:
if they can not chose. They have an excuse. God kept the truth from them/
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Years ago, I met a young Christian lady (with a Masters degree)
who said she could NOT love a God ...
who would take her mother to heaven, but send her father to hell.

We just must take God at His word.
He blesses those He wishes to, and He leaves the rest to their own devices.
The OP explains that God honors His justice,
and His justice is that sinners deserve to go to hell.

One of the reasons that God saves some is
to show His mercy and grace (undeserved favor)
towards some who do not deserve it.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#183
May 21, 2022
6,332
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#183
Hakawaka said:
Exactly how I feel. They have a few great proof-texts and arguments but if you take Scripture as a whole, so much of it just makes no sense on that calvinist lense. It makes everything into a meaningless soap opera where God is just playing games with people, pleading to them "REPENT" yet He is the reason they wont. Its so strange. Yet these people are held accountable for it?
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I find the make a lot of scripture paradoxical, yes call on the Lord, yes God calls you.

I think to the average person this is all very complicated, I do not think God is the author of confusion.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#184
May 21, 2022
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#184
dougcho said:
Thou art correct ...
God is NOT obliged to save anyone!
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Nor is a mother obligated to love her child I guess, what a very dim, sad view of God.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#186
Jul 3, 2015
61,103
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#186
Cameron143 said:
I never said against their will. But I have said a person's will is subject to their nature.
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People tend to ignore that... They almost have to in order to circumvent that by nature we all start out as children of wrath.


James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#189
Jul 3, 2015
61,103
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#189
Cameron143 said:
That's where the grace of God enters in.
Ephesians 4:1...But God...
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Who is rich in mercy...


Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. :)
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#190
Nov 20, 2018
23,749
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#190
Cameron143 said:
You have the opportunity from scripture to point out where God is beholden to save anyone. Please show me where it is found.
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You missed it man. Again. And again.

That question simply DOES NOT EXIST. At all. It is yet another Calvinist false dilemma fallacy.

Why? Because God ALREADY PROVIDED SALVATION from before the foundation of the world.
Before Adam. Before Satan. Before sin. Before ANYTHING. Salvation ALREADY EXISTS as a fait accompli.
All that anyone needs to go is REACH OUT THEIR HAND AND TAKE IT.

Each man chooses LIFE or DEATH according to the desire of his own will and heart.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#191
Nov 20, 2018
23,749
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#191
Cameron143 said:
Again you bear false witness. I never said God brought condemnation from before the foundation of the world. I clearly said in Adam.
And where is your testimony of Adam and Eve in salvation found in the scripture? I can find God shedding blood and making them a covering, but I missed their confessions of faith. Perhaps you can point them out to me?
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I have already provided you with COPIOUS quantities of Biblical useful and accurate answers/solutions. Several times.
But those who are blind and have hardened hearts CHOSE to ignore all of it.

Did you want me to copy and paste all of it? Again?
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#192
Nov 20, 2018
23,749
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#192
HeIsHere said:
I find the make a lot of scripture paradoxical, yes call on the Lord, yes God calls you.

I think to the average person this is all very complicated, I do not think God is the author of confusion.
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Its only complicated if you CHOOSE to lie your fool head off in a rampage of wholesale condemnation.

But the TRUTH is that simple child-like faith is all that you or I or anyone ever needs.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#193
Mar 1, 2022
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#193
cv5 said:
You missed it man. Again. And again.

That question simply DOES NOT EXIST. At all. It is yet another Calvinist false dilemma fallacy.

Why? Because God ALREADY PROVIDED SALVATION from before the foundation of the world.
Before Adam. Before Satan. Before sin. Before ANYTHING. Salvation ALREADY EXISTS as a fait accompli.
All that anyone needs to go is REACH OUT THEIR HAND AND TAKE IT.

Each man chooses LIFE or DEATH according to the desire of his own will and heart.
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Your last statement is true. But apart from the intervention of God, all will choose death. If it were not so, salvation wouldn't be necessary to begin with.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#194
Mar 1, 2022
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#194
cv5 said:
I have already provided you with COPIOUS quantities of Biblical useful and accurate answers/solutions. Several times.
But those who are blind and have hardened hearts CHOSE to ignore all of it.

Did you want me to copy and paste all of it? Again?
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Nope. It was inaccurate the first time. Copying it won't alter that.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#195
Nov 20, 2018
23,749
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#195
Cameron143 said:
Your last statement is true. But apart from the intervention of God, all will choose death. If it were not so, salvation wouldn't be necessary to begin with.
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He already did in eternity past. Done deal.

Are you tired of playing whack-a-mole? Just curious.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#197
Mar 1, 2022
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#197
cv5 said:
He already did in eternity past. Done deal.

Are you tired of playing whack-a-mole? Just curious.
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Salvation is consummated in space and time. So while it was in one regard accomplished before the foundation of the world, it was not implemented or consummated before the world was formed.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#199
Jul 3, 2015
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#199
John146 said:
Define what you’re calling “sovereign” since it’s not found in scripture.
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Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.'
 
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