Understanding God’s election

[John146]

I agree, but likely for different reasons. Thanks for the reply and please elaborate.

Throughout the OT, God was preserving the seed line. In turn, Satan was seeking to devour the seed to make void Genesis 3:15, in order to rule all nations. God would do whatever it took to preserve the seed, as Satan sought to devour it. See Cain, the giants in the earth, Babel, etc.

In Genesis 12, God called out Abram to continue the promise. This promise would continue through Isaac (not Ishmael), and Jacob (not Esau). The nation that would come from Jacob, Israel, would serve God’s purpose of the seed.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Israel
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Throughout the OT
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Satan
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. This man child will return one day to rule all nations, the cross being hidden. Little did Satan know that this child would come to lay down his life for man.

 

[cv5]

Being born doesn't make anyone choose salvation which must be made when God calls us to Him.

And God is always calling to everyone all of the time, as God is no respecter of persons as regards His justice.

Whereby they MUST make a conscious WILLFUL CHOICE to heed the call or not.

INCLUDING the Egyptians at the time of Moses, and the Canaanites at the time of Joshua.
Both nations had vast profound witness as to Who God is and that judgement was nigh, and that the time of REPENTANCE is at hand.

INCLUDING the time of the 7 year tribulation, where CHOOSING will be INESCAPABLE.
The time at which the Men of God stand opposed to the Satan-man for all the world to WITNESS.
And once choice leads to eternal LIFE and the other choice lead to eternal DEATH.

The Calvinites defy and deny all of this, and Holy God gets the blame.

 

[HeIsHere]

Appreciate the reply.
My meaning was not that man is the source of the repercussions, but the cause of them being implemented.
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

Again it is the nature of this corruption and that God designed it I am speaking about and you are sidestepping it.

 

[cv5]

The Old Saints were saved because they understood the reason behind sacrifice and the future sacrifice going to happen.

Yes sir. Well spoken.
Boy I'm sure glad that somebody else "gets it".

 

[HeIsHere]

Throughout the OT, God was preserving the seed line.

yes but....

 

[Cameron143]

Throughout the OT, God was preserving the seed line. In turn, Satan was seeking to devour the seed to make void Genesis 3:15, in order to rule all nations. God would do whatever it took to preserve the seed, as Satan sought to devour it. See Cain, the giants in the earth, Babel, etc.

In Genesis 12, God called out Abram to continue the promise. This promise would continue through Isaac (not Ishmael), and Jacob (not Esau). The nation that would come from Jacob, Israel, would serve God’s purpose of the seed.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Israel
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. Throughout the OT
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Satan
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. This man child will return one day to rule all nations, the cross being hidden. Little did Satan know that this child would come to lay down his life for man.

I agree with some of your understanding. And thanks for taking the time to reply.

For clarification: who is the seed of the woman spoken of in Genesis 3?

 

[rogerg]

The Old Saints were saved because they understood the reason behind sacrifice and the future sacrifice going to happen.

No, everyone is saved the same way - through/by Christ. There is no alternate gospel
If they knew, it was because they were indwelt by the Holy Spirit and therefore, they had become saved.
Their knowledge was a result of that, not the cause of it

 

[Cameron143]

Again it is the nature of this corruption and that God designed it I am speaking about and you are sidestepping it.

Again, I appreciate your reply.
The nature of the corruption was indeed formulated by God. Since God only does things that bring glory to Himself, how might God receive glory through the repercussions of sin?

 

[HeIsHere]

Again, I appreciate your reply.
The nature of the corruption was indeed formulated by God. Since God only does things that bring glory to Himself, how might God receive glory through the repercussions of sin?

Finally.

 

[cv5]

They use "cause" as their standard and try to level it out with the use of "permit" or "allow." Sneaky snakes....

Oh yeah. A lot of sneaking and skullduggery happening on the other side of the vale.

 

[Magenta]

I'm endeavoring to never let an opportunity for kindness slip by. And thanks for the encouragement.

You do well. Much better than I. You are a good example, and you are welcome.

 

[Magenta]

there is a failure to keep the message of the whole Bible consistent and in tact.

Perhaps you should stop throwing whole chapters out of your view. Here it is again (the most pertinent part):

Romans 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I admit that the law is good. 17 In that case, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do. Instead, I keep on doing the evil I do not want to do. 20 And if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Paul obliterates your silly notion of free will. I made the text larger so you could see it better.

 

[Rufus]

It absolutely dishonors God.

I guess you think that an all-loving God dishonored himself when he consigned all fallen angles to eternal damnation?

 

[Cameron143]

Finally.

Again, thanks for the reply.
This has always been my position. This isn't new. God has never moved according to the decrees of men.

 

[HeIsHere]

Again, I appreciate your reply.
The nature of the corruption was indeed formulated by God. Since God only does things that bring glory to Himself, how might God receive glory through the repercussions of sin?

There we have it

“. . . lay all of the abuse and destruction mankind has produced at the feet of God.”

This is a heinous system, and should be carefully examined and rejected by all who love truth

 

[Magenta]

Finally.

How ignorant. Just because you do not understand does not mean it has not been said.

Over and over and over again. Jeepers. How blind are you, really???

 

[HeIsHere]

I guess you think that an all-loving God dishonored himself when he consigned all fallen angles to eternal damnation?

What about, what about, what about....

 

[Magenta]

Again, thanks for the reply.
This has always been my position. This isn't new. God has never moved according to the decrees of men.

The blind cannot see.

 

[John146]

I agree with some of your understanding. And thanks for taking the time to reply.

For clarification: who is the seed of the woman spoken of in Genesis 3?

Because we have the rest of the story, we know the promised seed to be Christ. The serpent was not privy to this information.

 

[Rufus]

Being born doesn't make anyone choose salvation which must be made when God calls us to Him.

That's not what I asked you. I asked: Did any of us get to choose the GIFT of PHYSICAL life to which we were effectually "called" -- a gift which was bestowed on each of us. Tough question for you, which is why you evaded a straight answer?