Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

Sometimes these people who call themselves Christians while objecting so strenuously against how God has decided to do things and what God has done remind me of atheists who would try to shame those they disagreed with over what they believed. Case in point: they loved to tell us we could be in heaven with Hitler while they would be partying with all the fun people in hell. Of course the knee-jerk reaction of some would seem to be to shrivel away from embracing Hitler as one of our own. But why? God's grace is so great that if He accepted Hitler I should feel ZERO shame over sharing heaven with him! Owning the absolute wonderful nature of God that He could forgive even Hitler put the atheists' stupid claims to shame. I know I did not deserve God's grace and yet it was freely GIVEN to me any ways. Why should Hitler be any different? I would tell the atheists, maybe someday they would realize and be grateful for God's grace. We all need it.

 

[HeIsHere]

Again, thanks for the response.
No I'm not. God decided. He always decides and then declares. What He didn't do was force Adam and Eve to sin.
You are the one who finds fault with God. You believe He is unjust because of what He decided, so He therefore couldn't have decided in such a way. It is your sentiment acting in opposition to what God has declared. And as I've said on numerous occasions, it is a failure on your part to have your understanding come into line with what scripture teaches.

I believe the god you describe is unjust not the real God.

I would say the traditionalist (non -Calvinist approach) is the God scripture teaches.

Yet, did I state He forced Adam to sin, now who is not comprehending.

I am clearly speaking to the design of man's fallen nature.

Okay you either do not get the point of you are side stepping it.
Be that is it may.

 

[HeIsHere]

We do not resist the sunshine that God provides to warm us during the day! Nor do we resist the nights of darkness without sunshine in which we rest for the coming day! These are both gifts of grace which are provided to everyone, spoken of as common grace. But, the special grace of God to a certain people is shown over and over in both old and new testaments of the Bible. You cannot deny this fact!

Common grace is not the issue, special "arbitrary" grace for salvation (regeneration before belief) is an issue and not the plan of salvation.

 

[rogerg]

The Old Testament is a foreshadow of the New. Once you understand the same God is the same then as now you might become fertile soil to learn.

I intended to also include this verse which is a continuation of the verses in my prior reply to you but overlooked it. It is important
to also consider along with the other verses.

[Heb 8:12 KJV] 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[Rufus]

Come on Rufus...

Let's deal with what you told me, about what you say I said....

Here are your words:

Which would be the fate of your foolish theory about the Isrealites being the only ones who will occupy the restored earth if you ever get back to us and tell us what you found in Rev 21-22.​

I did not say, Israelites will be the only ones to occupy the restored earth.
I said they will occupy the New Israel with the New Jerusalem.

The rest of the new world will consist of nations occupied by gentiles who will survive the Tribulation.

And... at that time...

The Jews will have become once more God's role model for all the nations ...

Here is Scripture for that.

This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations ​

will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we ​

have heard that God is with you.’” Zechariah 8:23​

.......

The New Jerusalem is on the New Earth! It certainly isn't in your fictitious earthly millennial kingdom. And where is anything written about a "New Israel"!?

 

[Cameron143]

I believe the god you describe is unjust not the real God.

I would say the traditionalist (non -Calvinist approach) is the God scripture teaches.

Yet, did I state He forced Adam to sin, now who is not comprehending.

I am clearly speaking to the design of man's fallen nature.

Okay you either do not get the point of you are side stepping it.
Be that is it may.

Again, thanks for the reply.
I understand perfectly your point. You don't believe God is who He is.
Was God just in putting Israel under the law knowing no flesh would ever be justified by the law?
Was God just in destroying Egyptians but not Israelites?
Was God just in destroying a man who kept the ark from falling?
Was God just in making a murderer a leader?

None of us have the ability to comprehend the mind of God. Better to just accept what has been declared and ask God for understanding and wisdom than to ascribe to God assumptions.

 

[Rufus]

Common grace is not the issue, special "arbitrary" grace for salvation (regeneration before belief) is an issue and not the plan of salvation.

So, it was an arbitrary decision on God's part to elect Issac and Jacob to become children of promise? I seem to recall the scriptures talking quite a bit about God's purposes. Or was it arbitrary of God to rescue only Abraham's descendants from Egypt, while simultaneously ignoring the spiritual plight of the Egyptians? Since God does all things for a purpose ,this precludes your foolish straw man of arbitrariness.

 

[HeIsHere]

Again, thanks for the reply.
I understand perfectly your point. You don't believe God is who He is.
Was God just in putting Israel under the law knowing no flesh would ever be justified by the law?
Was God just in destroying Egyptians but not Israelites?
Was God just in destroying a man who kept the ark from falling?
Was God just in making a murderer a leader?

None of us have the ability to comprehend the mind of God. Better to just accept what has been declared and ask God for understanding and wisdom than to ascribe to God assumptions.

So is this your way of saying you accept that God designed every man after the fall to be born sinful in body, will, emotions, spirit and mind?

Thankfully, I do not face this moral quandary it is the non-traditional god that needs to be redeemed from the doctrines of men, the God of scripture culminates in the incarnation, Christ Jesus, and all He did in real time to accomplish His plan was born from His LOVE for all of mankind not just the selected.

 

[John146]

Again, thanks for the reply.
I understand perfectly your point. You don't believe God is who He is.
Was God just in putting Israel under the law knowing no flesh would ever be justified by the law?
Was God just in destroying Egyptians but not Israelites?
Was God just in destroying a man who kept the ark from falling?
Was God just in making a murderer a leader?

None of us have the ability to comprehend the mind of God. Better to just accept what has been declared and ask God for understanding and wisdom than to ascribe to God assumptions.

When one understands the promise of God in Genesis 3:15, then one can understand the “why” behind just about every OT story.

 

[John146]

So, it was an arbitrary decision on God's part to elect Issac and Jacob to become children of promise? I seem to recall the scriptures talking quite a bit about God's purposes. Or was it arbitrary of God to rescue only Abraham's descendants from Egypt, while simultaneously ignoring the spiritual plight of the Egyptians? Since God does all things for a purpose ,this precludes your foolish straw man of arbitrariness.

see post 6429

 

[Rufus]

Choose ye this day whom ye shall serve. As for my house we will serve the Lord.


Ultimately, we are called by God but eventually we must choose whom to serve.

`God "called" each and every one us into existence on this earth. None of us would exist, apart from God's will! Did we get to make a choice in that call?

 

[cv5]

But, the special grace of God to a certain people is shown over and over in both old and new testaments of the Bible. You cannot deny this fact!

For people like Rahab. Who was honored by being in the line of the Messiah.

And why in the world is this the case?
Well, the reason why is patently obvious. Its right there in black and white.
SHE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE. In fact the only right CHOICE and always the right CHOICE.

If course, the Calvinites CANNOT and WILL NOT confess the truth of the matter in this INTENTIONALLY prominent case.
As this would puncture the lies of Satan that they nurse and coddle.

 

[Rufus]

see post 6429

Your post is nebulous. If you're so confident in what you posted, lay it out for us.

 

[Rufus]

For people like Rahab. Who was honored by being in the line of the Messiah.

And why in the world is this the case?
Well, the reason why is patently obvious. Its right there in black and white.
SHE MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE. In fact the only right CHOICE and always the right CHOICE.

If course, the Calvinites CANNOT and WILL NOT confess the truth of the matter in this INTENTIONALLY prominent case.
As this would puncture the lies of Satan that they nurse and coddle.

Here he his is assuming that God wasn't effectually working in her to do his will.

 

[Rufus]

Common grace is not the issue, special "arbitrary" grace for salvation (regeneration before belief) is an issue and not the plan of salvation.

For your info, Madam, Natural Revelation (the real world around us as we all know it) is the mirror image of Special Revelation.

 

[Magenta]

So is this your way of saying you accept that God designed every man after the fall to be born sinful in body, will, emotions, spirit and mind?

Thankfully, I do not face this moral quandary it is the non-traditional god that needs to be redeemed from the doctrines of men, the God of scripture culminates in the incarnation, Christ Jesus, and all He did in real time to accomplish His plan was born from His LOVE for all of mankind not just the selected.

Yes, we know you do not accept what Scripture says of the natural man.

It is plain you think him capable of doing what only the spiritual man can.

In your view he is good to go as is. What need of a new birth, even?

You accomplish that by your own volition!

You did not need your eyes opened. No, your sight was fine as it was!

Your ear, my goodness!!! They did not need circumcising!!!

Your heart. Such a paragon of virtue...

 

[cv5]

Again, thanks for the reply.
I understand perfectly your point. You don't believe God is who He is.
Was God just in putting Israel under the law knowing no flesh would ever be justified by the law?
Was God just in destroying Egyptians but not Israelites?
Was God just in destroying a man who kept the ark from falling?
Was God just in making a murderer a leader?

None of us have the ability to comprehend the mind of God. Better to just accept what has been declared and ask God for understanding and wisdom than to ascribe to God assumptions.

That is some extreme cluelessness right there. Profound really.
And devastatingly God dishonoring.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. But the Calvinites? No such luck.

 

[Cameron143]

So is this your way of saying you accept that God designed every man after the fall to be born sinful in body, will, emotions, spirit and mind?

Thankfully, I do not face this moral quandary it is the non-traditional god that needs to be redeemed from the doctrines of men, the God of scripture culminates in the incarnation, Christ Jesus, and all He did in real time to accomplish His plan was born from His LOVE for all of mankind not just the selected.

Thanks again for the reply.
No. God made everything good and very good. That was God's design. Though it is now marred in creation, the design is still there. This is what redemption is all about. God is restoring His original design in man with an added bonus...the Holy Spirit.
The corruption of man was done by man Himself. In the mind of God, the repercussions fit perfectly the offense. No more and no less what should have been required of man.

If you genuinely want to explore the glories of God in choosing those repercussions we can.

 

[Cameron143]

When one understands the promise of God in Genesis 3:15, then one can understand the “why” behind just about every OT story.

I agree, but likely for different reasons. Thanks for the reply and please elaborate.

 

[Cameron143]

That is some extreme cluelessness right there. Profound really.
And devastatingly God dishonoring.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. But the Calvinites? No such luck.

Thanks for the reply.