Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

From: John 8:34; 2 Peter 2:19a; Galatians 4:8; Romans 7:14; Ephesians 2:3; Romans 6:6 “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
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[Magenta]

Galatians 5:1; Romans 10:10a; Romans 6:17-18; Colossians 2:20 It was for freedom that Christ set us free. Therefore, stand firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. With the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness. Though you used to be slaves to sin, you have been set free from sin and become slaves to righteousness. You have died with Christ to the spiritual forces of the world.
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[fredoheaven]

Verses 1-5 come before verses 8-9 in my Bible. So Paul is actually building the groundwork for his argument for salvation by grace before he actually unveils it. He begins with the reason salvation is necessary. He tells

That's why God always sends someone with the gospel. Another part of His grace.

This does not deny what Paul clarified in v5. The raising of Christ is the culmination of God' mercy and great love to humanity and this togetherness does not mean at the same time. Regeneration comes by grace through faith..
If we work it back as your argument, the it will lead us to chapter Ephesians 1:13

 

[fredoheaven]

I think you miss the point.

I miss the point, so whats the point. Thanks

 

[Cameron143]

Ephesians 2:5 Paul made clarification, how one get saved " by grace ye are save' hence referring also to eph. 2:8 which is 'through faith'. So the verse is not saying regeneration before faith, rather faith to be saved.

In my Bible, verses 1-5 come before verses 8-9. This means the Apostle was laying the groundwork in the earlier verses. He begins by introducing the term quickened and the phrase dead in trespasses and sins.
Quickened is easy. That simply means gives life to. Dead in trespasses and sins is what he explains for the next 2 verses. Pretty much the description is dead, being dominated, and doomed. But presto, God intervenes and viola...He takes dead people and makes them alive.
Dead people are unbelievers. That means they don't as yet have faith. God even, with us in this estate, makes us alive together with Christ. By the time we come to verse 8, God is simply giving more details about how He makes us alive.
So, still have God making people alive when they were still unbelievers.

 

[Cameron143]

This does not deny what Paul clarified in v5. The raising of Christ is the culmination of God' mercy and great love to humanity and this togetherness does not mean at the same time. Regeneration comes by grace through faith..
If we work it back as your argument, the it will lead us to chapter Ephesians 1:13

Verse 5 isn't Christ being quickened, but people who are dead in their trespasses and sins being quickened together with Christ.

 

[Cameron143]

This does not deny what Paul clarified in v5. The raising of Christ is the culmination of God' mercwelly and great love to humanity and this togetherness does not mean at the same time. Regeneration comes by grace through faith..
If we work it back as your argument, the it will lead us to chapter Ephesians 1:13

Ephesians 1:13 is the sealing of the Holy Spirit and not the indwelling of the Spirit. There's a big difference.

 

[Mem]

Nice.
But my point all along has been that receiving in and of itself doesn't require any action on the part of the receiver.

receive in John 3:27 is infinitive active rather than indicated as infinitive passive

"A man can receive nothing unless it is given him from heaven..."John 3:27
Rephrased, it is not possible for anyone to receive anything unless is heaven gives him the possibility.

 

[Mem]

Likewise, "to please" is infinitive active in Hebrews 11:6, "...it is impossible to please God...."
Rephrased, "...with faith, it is possible to please God"

 

[Cameron143]

receive in John 3:27 is infinitive active rather than indicated as infinitive passive

"A man can receive nothing unless it is given him from heaven..."John 3:27
Rephrased, it is not possible for anyone to receive anything unless is heaven gives him the possibility.

How about John 1:12?

 

[Mem]

How about John 1:12?

"to become" is aorist infinitive middle and it is used to express action done to oneself.

 

[brightfame52]

Likewise, "to please" is infinitive active in Hebrews 11:6, "...it is impossible to please God...."
Rephrased, "...with faith, it is possible to please God"

Thats because that Faith is from God and not found within the natural man in the flesh Rom8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[JesusIsSovereign]

I would agree that for many the idea of the trinity may not jump off the pages at them. I believe but I can see why many do see it right away. On the other hand I think there are so many verses that are against the most bothersome or honestly most frightening belief of the Calvin/Reform dogma. The whole idea that God not only hates a group of people but will send them to hell through not fault of their own, to me is beyond illogical but more importantly, mocks the character and heart of God.

So, yeah, probably a different reason. Why I found this amusing is because the claim, "the trinity can't exist because the word trinity isn't explicitly stated in the Word of Christ, it cannot be true" is saying that truths in the Word that are explicitly stated can't be true if they are summarized by a word not in scripture. For the truths you are referring to when you say the word trinity ARE in the Word of Christ, even if the word trinity isn't.

 

[Mem]

Thats because that Faith is from God and not found within the natural man in the flesh Rom8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Faith is not a of thing of the flesh. It is spiritual in is essence. Faith is a substance of things not seen, an evidence of things hoped for. There is no one incapable of applying a true hope toward anything, and do so at will, although many things that they hope for may disappoint, hoping in God is no futile venture.
Asserting that one cannot please God unless God pleases that one please Him seems to be using some sort of circular logic.

 

[cv5]

How about John 1:12?

[Jhn 1:12 KJV]
But as many as received G2983 him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

There it is again @Cameron143
Not much to Calvinate here right?

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. to take
   1. to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
      1. to take up a thing to be carried
      2. to take upon one's self

 

[Cameron143]

"to become" is aorist infinitive middle and it is used to express action done to oneself.

I meant...as many as received Him...

 

[Cameron143]

[Jhn 1:12 KJV]
But as many as received G2983 him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

There it is again @Cameron143
Not much to Calvinate here right?

Outline of Biblical Usage

1. to take
   1. to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
      1. to take up a thing to be carried
      2. to take upon one's self

I have no problem with faith as a act of volition. How about being quickened? Is that an act of volition? Did we, being dead in trespasses and sins, make ourselves alive together with Christ?

Or was this done for us? Making us partakers of the divine nature? And thus alive to God?

Which came first? Does verse 5 come before verse 8?

 

[Magenta]

I miss the point, so whats the point. Thanks

Hello Fred. Cameron told us what the point was here (<= link).

 

[HeIsHere]

This does not deny what Paul clarified in v5. The raising of Christ is the culmination of God' mercy and great love to humanity and this togetherness does not mean at the same time. Regeneration comes by grace through faith..
If we work it back as your argument, the it will lead us to chapter Ephesians 1:13

Taking a verse out of its surrounding text (sometimes that could be the entire letter) a text can look like it is saying something it is not even close to saying.

Plainly faith in/trust in precedes any aspect of receiving a new life to state otherwise is a complete distortion of scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

@Mem

Faith is not a of thing of the flesh

Correct I just stated that

Asserting that one cannot please God unless God pleases that one please Him seems to be using some sort of circular logic.

They cant please God if they are yet in the flesh, unregenerate Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Take God at His word friend ! Discard your human logic in this matter