Understanding God’s election

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Cranberry

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If justifying faith depends on man’s own self-determined ”free will” exercise then salvation is neither sure nor all of free grace
Why justification must be of grace alone through faith alone in the righteousness of Christ alone? Because He alone fulfilled all righteousness, and from anyone who desires to enter His Kingdom, God will demand nothing less!
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Cranberry said:
It was so much better when the spirits committed to conflict talked among themselves.

It was so much better when the Discordians were talking to themselves and we Saints in Christ stayed in His Word.

They were begging for attention and we denied them. As God instructed.

Romans 16:17
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them.
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To be honest, I think most everyone here are ok. Embedded beliefs are not easily pried loose and most of the insults are nothing more than siblings quarreling and sharing barbs. If it's any encouragement, at least you're not on the black sheep side of the family.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Rufus said:
Before I call it a day, where are all the smartest people in this room? Not a peep from anyone on my 7445 which dealt with Prov 11:1, 20 which teach that God detests both sin and the sinner, respectively. Have you FWers, especially, swallowed your tongue whole, or have your hands become crippled with painful writers' cramps, or have you become blind so that you cannot see your screens?

This just goes to show how awesome, incredible and incomprehensibly powerful God's Word is.
Two small passages have, evidently, torpedoed people's theological views of God.
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Proverbs 6:16-19 plus 12
:)
 
Mem

Mem

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Cameron143 said:
How exactly would that work? How does one accept something spiritually?
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"They" said, "we haven't even heard of the Holy Spirit"... i.e. this is the first we've heard, that Word, and they received it. "I stand at the door and knock..." Opening the door is effectively 'receiving' the caller, but when Spirit enters in, through the Door... well, you're going to get more than just a cup of tea and biscuits.
 
fredoheaven

fredoheaven

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Cameron143 said:
I don't need election to make the case I'm making in Ephesians. It isn't dealing with election. Ephesians 2 is concerned with salvation. In verses 1-3, God says He quickens, or makes alive, those who are dead in trespasses and sins. He follows this up describing what it is to be dead in trespasses and sins. He is clearly describing the unbeliever. In verse 5, God says that he those dead in their sins with Christ. Thus, God makes unbelievers alive together with Christ directly from a state of unbelief. That is regeneration before belief.
And that's what we should never forget.
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Ephesians 2:5 Paul made clarification, how one get saved " by grace ye are save' hence referring also to eph. 2:8 which is 'through faith'. So the verse is not saying regeneration before faith, rather faith to be saved.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Mem said:
"They" said, "we haven't even heard of the Holy Spirit"... i.e. this is the first we've heard, that Word, and they received it. "I stand at the door and knock..." Opening the door is effectively 'receiving' the caller, but when Spirit enters in, through the Door... well, you're going to get more than just a cup of tea and biscuits.
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Nice.
But my point all along has been that receiving in and of itself doesn't require any action on the part of the receiver.
 
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ThereRoseaLamb

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Rufus said:
But doesn't scripture teach that all men are sinners?
So...you need to explain how God would be unjust if he left many to die in their natural born condition of sinfulness. Men are evil by nature, according to scripture. So...if God let them remain in that state that fallen men relish by the way, how would he be unfair?
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The Bible doesn't say God created sinners. Sin is our choice. The cross gave us a chance to be free of sin, if we choose to, like the thief on the cross who was saved.

Rufus said:
Your objection clearly implies B.) or even though men are sinners God has moral duty to save all or make salvation available to all. So which is it? And if the latter, explain how God is morally obligated to save anyone.
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God is obligated to His promises, to His Word. In His Word salvation is offered to ALL. To those who believe on Him, He has promised to save. God obligated Himself in His Word. Have you ever read the Bible?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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fredoheaven said:
Ephesians 2:5 Paul made clarification, how one get saved " by grace ye are save' hence referring also to eph. 2:8 which is 'through faith'. So the verse is not saying regeneration before faith, rather faith to be saved.
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Verses 1-5 come before verses 8-9 in my Bible. So Paul is actually building the groundwork for his argument for salvation by grace before he actually unveils it. He begins with the reason salvation is necessary. He tells
HeIsHere said:
One cannot receive what one does not believe in, elementary Watson!
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That's why God always sends someone with the gospel. Another part of His grace.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
Verses 1-5 come before verses 8-9 in my Bible. So Paul is actually building the groundwork for his argument for salvation by grace before he actually unveils it. He begins with the reason salvation is necessary. He tells

That's why God always sends someone with the gospel. Another part of His grace.
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Ephesians 2:1-3 You were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

Ephesians 2:4-7 ~ Because of His great love for us, God, Who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. :)
 
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