Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

Irony indeed...

Yeah it is INDEED! Don't you know that the Fear of the Lord, which God instills into the hearts of his elect, is wisdom (Mic 6:9)?

 

[Magenta]

Romans 5 verse 12 Ephesians 2 verse 3 Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned. We were by nature children of wrath.

 

[lrs68]

People on here have told me people are born condemned.
Is this some kind of selective grace then?

Adam, who was made perfect without sin chose to sin.
Every child he procreated (his children) were born as sinners because their dad Adam sinned.
Then when these children of Adam had children they were born as sinners.
This pattern has been the same up to the child being born today and tomorrow and every day from now onward.

If you are born as sinners then you are condemned because you have never repented for being a sinner and accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord, God, and Savior.

But the topic you are discussing is interesting. In the Book of Psalms, king David lost his child just a few days after the child was born. But King David wrote that one day he will go and be with his son.

The problem is that there's only 2 places people go to after they die.
Heaven or Hell.
We are truly convinced, especially since King David is one of the names mentioned in the section of the New Testament Book of Hebrews we call the Hall of Fame Saints. We also know that Jesus chose to come from the same lineage as King David. So it's very clear that King David is in Heaven.

So if King David is in Heaven and he went to where his 5 day old son is at then King David believed his son went to Heaven.

I personally believe this is fact. Because a 5 day old child has no ability to choose whether it wants to accept God as its Savior or to reject the offer.

But on here, you will notice that a select few have changed the predestined topic that involves Jesus being selected as our Savior before the foundation of the world to making it mean people. So unsound doctrine is very prevalent throughout this forum.

 

[studier]

Yeah...but what the passage teaches didn't make THE difference between you and unbelievers. You're a wee bit late in bringing that psalm to the party, aren't you?

Not late at all. You simply presuppose extensively to assert your erroneous views about others who disagree with you.

There's an interesting process that goes on in the will and thoughts of the inner man who does not let go of the knowledge of God's existence that God has placed in all men when like the Hebrew of Ps34 says, his spirit has been pulverized - turned to dust. If we're still thinking and not making the choice to self-depart, or medicate, or drink, or??? then there is that choice Peter voiced - where else do we go?

 

[studier]

Yeah it is INDEED! Don't you know that the Fear of the Lord, which God instills into the hearts of his elect, is wisdom (Mic 6:9)?

It's not wise, but it is ironic, in a sense, that you would tell me to make an oath while the Text tells us that the evil one says to do such a thing. You kind of skipped that part didn't you... Then you deviated into wisdom and Fear of the Lord instead.

So, where's the wisdom in that?

Your original statement about hatred was also anything but wise - aka dumb.

I've read some of your discussions with @GWH re: love and hate. At one point I think I recall @GWH saying something to the effect that the Word speaks of God having or doing both and that as @GWH usually says, such must be harmonized. That was wise advice IMO.

 

[Rufus]

NKJ Matt5:33-37 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' 34 "But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 "nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 "But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

See! You are the evil one!

Well then...don't swear falsely to God. When you make a vow before him, try to keep it. Also, learn something about oaths!

https://www.crossway.org/articles/d...X-M3c_TTrOUpCy5bXPSAYAQxAjpcOTbtTeI7h5a_4gIHf

 

[Rufus]

Not late at all. You simply presuppose extensively to assert your erroneous views about others who disagree with you.

There's an interesting process that goes on in the will and thoughts of the inner man who does not let go of the knowledge of God's existence that God has placed in all men when like the Hebrew of Ps34 says, his spirit has been pulverized - turned to dust. If we're still thinking and not making the choice to self-depart, or medicate, or drink, or??? then there is that choice Peter voiced - where else do we go?

Nice word salad. Were you an advisor to Kamala Harris?

 

[Rufus]

Adam, who was made perfect without sin chose to sin.
Every child he procreated (his children) were born as sinners because their dad Adam sinned.
Then when these children of Adam had children they were born as sinners.
This pattern has been the same up to the child being born today and tomorrow and every day from now onward.

If you are born as sinners then you are condemned because you have never repented for being a sinner and accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord, God, and Savior.

But the topic you are discussing is interesting. In the Book of Psalms, king David lost his child just a few days after the child was born. But King David wrote that one day he will go and be with his son.

The problem is that there's only 2 places people go to after they die.
Heaven or Hell.
We are truly convinced, especially since King David is one of the names mentioned in the section of the New Testament Book of Hebrews we call the Hall of Fame Saints. We also know that Jesus chose to come from the same lineage as King David. So it's very clear that King David is in Heaven.

So if King David is in Heaven and he went to where his 5 day old son is at then King David believed his son went to Heaven.

I personally believe this is fact. Because a 5 day old child has no ability to choose whether it wants to accept God as its Savior or to reject the offer.

But on here, you will notice that a select few have changed the predestined topic that involves Jesus being selected as our Savior before the foundation of the world to making it mean people. So unsound doctrine is very prevalent throughout this forum.

Read Romans 8:29-30 someday. Then once you have that figured out correctly, advance to the next chapter.

 

[Rufus]

It's not wise, but it is ironic, in a sense, that you would tell me to make an oath while the Text tells us that the evil one says to do such a thing. You kind of skipped that part didn't you... Then you deviated into wisdom and Fear of the Lord instead.

So, where's the wisdom in that?

Your original statement about hatred was also anything but wise - aka dumb.

I've read some of your discussions with @GWH re: love and hate. At one point I think I recall @GWH saying something to the effect that the Word speaks of God having or doing both and that as @GWH usually says, such must be harmonized. That was wise advice IMO.

I harmonized God's love and hate a long time ago, which is far more than GWH ever did, especially since he summarily dismissed a large number of OT "hate" passages I posted because he said those OT passages never caught up to the NT. (In saying that he redefined the phrase "lame excuse"!) I have said in the past that God has no covenantal filial love for sinners -- only for his elect. But this doesn't change the fact that God generally has a benevolent disposition of heart toward all. Even God's just retribution or vengeance or punishment against unrepentant sinners is considered a "strange work" or "alien task" for Him (Isa 28:21). Yet, God's hatred for sin and sinners (Prov 11:1, 20, respectively) is a justified HOLY hatred.

It looks like you hitched your wagon up to blind GWH, and you know what happens when the blind lead the blind, don't you?

 

[lrs68]

Read Romans 8:29-30 someday. Then once you have that figured out correctly, advance to the next chapter.

For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Still only talking about Jesus being foreordained.

 

[Rufus]

For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Still only talking about Jesus being foreordained.

So, the Father predestined the Son of God to be conformed to the image of Himself? And in your universe, that makes sense!?

And who are all the "whoms" in some translations or all the "those" in other translations?

 

[Magenta]

Not late at all. You simply presuppose extensively to assert your erroneous views about others who disagree with you.

There's an interesting process that goes on in the will and thoughts of the inner man who does not let go of the knowledge of God's existence that God has placed in all men when like the Hebrew of Ps34 says, his spirit has been pulverized - turned to dust. If we're still thinking and not making the choice to self-depart, or medicate, or drink, or??? then there is that choice Peter voiced - where else do we go?

Yes, I have mentioned this about Peter numerous times, but it must be supposed that Peter had
already received something the natural man has not, because Jesus specifically told him he knew Who
Jesus was due to the Holy Spirit of God, whereas the natural man can neither receive nor comprehend
things of the Spirit. No doubt you will ignore this as you do so much else regarding the natural man.

 

[lrs68]

So, the Father predestined the Son of God to be conformed to the image of Himself? And in your universe, that makes sense!?

And who are all the "whoms" in some translations or all the "those" in other translations?

No the Son is foreordained that He is the image we would resemble as saved people.

Of course you didn't grasp that simple concept because it's straight forward in meaning and not twisted like man made doctrine.

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 16: verses 15-17 ~ What about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

 

[HeIsHere]

Does Rom 9 teach that God has mercy and compassion on all human beings w/o exception? Or does Rom 9 teach that God dispenses the graces of mercy and compassion at his own discretion? Or when Jesus said that he gives life to whomover he wishes, is he not saying that the gift of eternal life is his prerogative and given at his discretion?

Are babies born guilty?

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes, very.

Do you believe babies are born guilty, with inherited sin?

 

[studier]

Well then...don't swear falsely to God. When you make a vow before him, try to keep it. Also, learn something about oaths!

https://www.crossway.org/articles/d...X-M3c_TTrOUpCy5bXPSAYAQxAjpcOTbtTeI7h5a_4gIHf

Good article. Bet it took you a while to find and read up on the topic. At the end of it all it affirms that in the Kingdom we seek to live by Yes and No which are to suffice and all else is from the evil one. I hope you learned something about oaths. Your exclamatory command to me is projection.

 

[studier]

Nice word salad. Were you an advisor to Kamala Harris?

Back full-circle and start again - this too was a dumb post.

 

[HeIsHere]

Every child he procreated (his children) were born as sinners because their dad Adam sinned.

We carry the guilt of our own sin, not Adam's.
We do however bear the consequences of Adam's actions in that we are all born separated from God.
Since we are born separated from God, we will sin.

 

[studier]

I harmonized God's love and hate a long time ago, which is far more than GWH ever did, especially since he summarily dismissed a large number of OT "hate" passages I posted because he said those OT passages never caught up to the NT. (In saying that he redefined the phrase "lame excuse"!) I have said in the past that God has no covenantal filial love for sinners -- only for his elect. But this doesn't change the fact that God generally has a benevolent disposition of heart toward all. Even God's just retribution or vengeance or punishment against unrepentant sinners is considered a "strange work" or "alien task" for Him (Isa 28:21). Yet, God's hatred for sin and sinners (Prov 11:1, 20, respectively) is a justified HOLY hatred.

It looks like you hitched your wagon up to blind GWH, and you know what happens when the blind lead the blind, don't you?

The way I read you, and I don't seem to be alone, you've tipped the scales towards hatred. This goes well with your view of depravity. But God is love which is quite a statement and seemingly very foundational. And not all His love is covenantal but more so who He is. I don't see the Text saying God is hate so the harder you push the topic for whatever your point, FWIW, it comes across very imbalanced. I haven't looked too hard, but I doubt you'll find "holy" and "hate" (in any form) in a verse together describing God.

I really don't hitch myself to others but to what is said that seems to present Scripture properly.