Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

It is not the correct understanding because it does not state "gifted spiritual special hearing" and it denies the entire Gospel message.

On the other hand, faith itself is a divine gift! Of course, in your universe that would not make faith an efficacious grace.

 

[Cameron143]

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you think man’s responsible for what God did to save humanity ?

Not at all. I simply understand the dreadful estate of man before God, and his inability to reconcile himself to God. Man's condition necessitates action on God's part.

 

[Cameron143]

Then Those who aren’t saved is because God didn’t want to ?

Because God chose not to exercise mercy.

 

[Rufus]

Yes, but the point of disagreement is whether God loves/wants to save every sinner, not just you, Ruf and Mag.

There's not passage in scripture that teaches that God ever purposed to save each and every sinner in the world. That's your pipe dream. If he purposed to do that, then all would be saved, for nothing in this universe can thwart God's purposes -- not even your supposed "freewill".

 

[Cameron143]

He only needs to mention it one time But He also has mentioned to CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHOM TO SERVE and that HE DOESN'T DESIRE ANY TO PERISH BUT FOR THEM TO CHOOSE LIFE OR GOD many times and that is completely ignored for Potter\Clay one time mention because in your mathematics 1 time mention is more than many times.

Or maybe it's like what's being mentioned, you have an agenda to push a Doctrine that everyone knows is weak?

Your reference is an old covenant reference. For those under the old covenant, not choosing to follow God brought with it death. Incidentally, death was the sanction for disobedience under the covenant.

 

[lrs68]

Your reference is an old covenant reference. For those under the old covenant, not choosing to follow God brought with it death. Incidentally, death was the sanction for disobedience under the covenant.

Peter mentions the same thing

 

[Rufus]

Pilgrimshope said:


Then Those who aren’t saved is because God didn’t want to ?

Does Romans 9 teach that God has mercy and compassion on all men w/o exception?

 

[Magenta]

Your reference is an old covenant reference. For those under the old covenant, not choosing to follow God brought with it death. Incidentally, death was the sanction for disobedience under the covenant.

Death was given as the consequence for disobedience/sin right at the beginning. Satan came along and lied about that, and that lie, the lie at the heart of the fall of man and corruption of all creation, is being repeated to this very day as well.

 

[HeIsHere]

I've been on the same track all along...it is God who saves. Mankind is helpless to save themselves.

Like that is even the argument.
That you resort to this tells us you have no real scriptural basis for your position.

 

[GWH]

On the other hand, faith itself is a divine gift! Of course, in your universe that would not make faith an efficacious grace.

Yes, faith is a divine gift, but it can be misused, just like other gifts.
A&E misused it by believing the Serpent rather than GW,
so it is not irresistible but only efficacious when employed to seek God/GW.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, but the point of disagreement is whether God loves/wants to save every sinner, not just you, Ruf and Mag.

That's not the only point of disagreement. Others here do not concede the point I made.
As to whether God desires men to be saved...He does. But it is also true that He doesn't bring salvation to all.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Read the next to the last paragraph in the post I cited. It spoke of God circumcising the heart, opening eyes, unstopping ears,...this is exactly what God does in saving an individual.

Yep he magically makes some able to understand language

 

[Rufus]

I highly doubt Calvinist even know what "moral ability" even means.

Well...for starters the phrase isn't in the bible, so there is that. So, why don't you define for us what YOU mean by "moral ability"?

 

[Rufus]

Yep he magically makes some able to understand language

So, you reduce God to a pagan magician, heh? I guess when Jesus raised Lazarus up from his tomb, he too performed a magic trick?

 

[Cameron143]

Like that is even the argument.
That you resort to this tells us you have no real scriptural basis for your position.

And yet I've shared the scripture with you that showed the genesis of faith, how understanding is opened, and Who weilds the power of the gospel. You, on the other hand, have yet to share a scripture.

 

[GWH]

There's not passage in scripture that teaches that God ever purposed to save each and every sinner in the world. That's your pipe dream. If he purposed to do that, then all would be saved, for nothing in this universe can thwart God's purposes -- not even your supposed "freewill".

I know you believe God hates humanity other than your ilk,
but I believe that disbelieving the 7 pearls borders on blasphemy,
because it contradicts divine righteousness/justness/non-favoritism.
You cannot thwart God's intentional will to allow/permit MFW.

 

[cv5]

FWers will tell us that all the above are just minor obstacles which their power of "freewill" can easily overcome. After all, God has given us all an ability that He doesn't even have: We can make choices contrary to our nature. Long live Man's Freewill!

There is no doubt whatsoever that Adam made wrong choices contrary to his nature before the fall.
And right choices after he fell.

Satan was unfallen at his creation as well. What happened? God willed that he should perish?

Oh and BTW, believers make wrong choices contrary to God's will and their "new man" nature all the time day in and day out.

 

[Cameron143]

Peter mentions the same thing

Not in terms of the old covenant.

 

[HeIsHere]

On the other hand, faith itself is a divine gift! Of course, in your universe that would not make faith an efficacious grace.

Scripture and Jesus state otherwise.

Salvation is the gift received through faith meaning clearly that faith is the condition to met.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Not at all. I simply understand the dreadful estate of man before God, and his inability to reconcile himself to God. Man's condition necessitates action on God's part.

again cameron man didn’t accomplish the gospel or send it out promising salvation to anyone who believes . That’s what God did to save people

The gospel is the power of God to save anyone who believes

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16KJV‬‬