Universal Reconciliation

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I

Israel

Guest
From your own mouth, I ask you this:

Do you say and believe that spiritual death, that is, being sent to Hades to know the fiery wrath of God which consumes even down to the dungeon of Hades, has the same effect of santification as the blood of Jesus?

If this is the case, then, I ask you from your own mouth, what was the purpose of Jesus having to die to save some from the fiery flames of God's wrath which shall be the everlasting torment experienced by those sent there?
Again beloved, Jesus didn't come to save the Abrahams and Moses'. The Isaiahs and Jeremiahs. He came to save the Hitlers and the Dalmers!
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
Again beloved, Jesus didn't come to save the Abrahams and Moses'. The Isaiahs and Jeremiahs. He came to save the Hitlers and the Dalmers!
So then, does the antichrist, seeing that he will be a man, also get saved? Who, like Judas, will betray the Lord and His plan?
 
I

Israel

Guest
So then, does the antichrist, seeing that he will be a man, also get saved? Who, like Judas, will betray the Lord and His plan?

If there was no Judas, would Jesus have been revealed to the world as the son of God? What you're looking for is already here. They slap you in the face with it everyday with such movies as the Matrix, in that you are a slave to a system you made to rule over you!
 
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cfultz3

Guest
If there was no Judas, would Jesus have been revealed to the world as the son of God? What you're looking for is already here. They slap you in the face with it everyday with such movies as the Matrix, in that you are a slave to a system you made to rule over you!
Specifically, particularlly, the antichrist which is spoken of in Revelation, he being a man, will he, under Universal Salvation, be forgiven evenually?

Under Universal Salvation, he will have to be forgiven, seeing that he is a man, although he is purposed in destroying God and His Salvational plan.

What of those who blasphemy the Holy Spirit, they who have no forgiven at all, when will they be forgiven and accepted in the Messiah's Kingdom?
 
I

Israel

Guest
Specifically, particularlly, the antichrist which is spoken of in Revelation, he being a man, will he, under Universal Salvation, be forgiven evenually?

Under Universal Salvation, he will have to be forgiven, seeing that he is a man, although he is purposed in destroying God and His Salvational plan.

What of those who blasphemy the Holy Spirit, they who have no forgiven at all, when will they be forgiven and accepted in the Messiah's Kingdom?
You must know the truth in order to blaspheme it. Whatever antichrist comes your way, remember he is but a man and will die as one. Our battle is not flesh and blood.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
ok then. So, will he or will he not be fogiven?
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
All things will be made subject unto Christ, that means obedience.

So, Satan too, the one who will be indwelling the antichirst, will also be forgiven?

What effect does the death of Jeus have then? Surely, you proclaim He died for nothing when you imply that all will eventually be reconciled to God according to His "purposed will". What does His death mean to you?
 
Oct 12, 2011
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So, Satan too, the one who will be indwelling the antichirst, will also be forgiven?

What effect does the death of Jeus have then? Surely, you proclaim He died for nothing when you imply that all will eventually be reconciled to God according to His "purposed will". What does His death mean to you?

I believe Satan is nothing more than a tool in God's overall Plan of the ages.

For example if you were to be in a spiritual body instead of a flesh body, would sickness and disease have and effect on you?

Go back to the beginning and see what it is that is his food, the very dust of the earth, that same does
that these bodies are made of. Where there is no dust there is no food.

The same as with the mind of man, when you have the mind of Christ, the accuser cannot condemn you anymore.

How does something die? you stop feeding it. We all need to come to the Place that Christ did,
when He said, The enemy cometh and He has nothing in me.

Now the second part of your question. You seem to be confused about something, Christ's death burial and Resurrection is what works WITHIN US, It is His Life that Lives inside, that keeps us, that shows us,
that sustains us, that delivers us, that preserves us. It is not up to us to decide to except Him.

We did not ask for Him to come and Save us, But He did. And He did this before you were born.
We were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.
 
Oct 12, 2011
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What effect does the death of Jeus have then? Surely, you proclaim He died for nothing when you imply that all will eventually be reconciled to God according to His "purposed will". What does His death mean to you?


I want to make sure I address this. What effect does the death of Jesus have then?

If it were not for His Death, then I could not be in fellowship with The Father of Glory. He has made that possible. Not only that but to know who I am, and why I was created and for what purpose, is everything in this present evil age. Because many don't, and especially Christians.

You said I proclaim He died for nothing when I imply that all will eventually be reconciled to God.

No, I proclaim that His Sacrifice saves ALL, not just a few, tell me how that counts for nothing.
All Redeem and Reconciled, is Greater, than just a few, common sense ought to tell you that.

Now, let me ask you a question. Could you turn away from Him now, and go back to the way you were before? Do you really believe you have that option?
 
Oct 12, 2011
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From your own mouth, I ask you this:

Do you say and believe that spiritual death, that is, being sent to Hades to know the fiery wrath of God which consumes even down to the dungeon of Hades, has the same effect of santification as the blood of Jesus?

If this is the case, then, I ask you from your own mouth, what was the purpose of Jesus having to die to save some from the fiery flames of God's wrath which shall be the everlasting torment experienced by those sent there?


Again you are confused, The Blood of The Lamb is only applied to those that are in the flesh.
For the life of soul is in the blood, we are living souls in this physical realm, and need the Blood on this side.

But if you die, and no longer have blood (in the flesh body) then The Blood of The Lamb cannot do anything for you, Now it is necessary for the fire alone to cleanse and Redeem.

The Blood is important for our souls while we live and breath in a physical body, not for our spirits.
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What does the above verse imply? It implies that if you dont believe on him you will perish.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If you dont believe in Christ while you are alive......Game over.... Super Mario Bros. Music - Game Over - YouTube
 
Oct 12, 2011
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Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What does the above verse imply? It implies that if you dont believe on him you will perish.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

If you dont believe in Christ while you are alive......Game over.... Super Mario Bros. Music - Game Over - YouTube

Not true, it is not over, they will be judged and Redeemed through The Lake of Fire.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
Again you are confused, The Blood of The Lamb is only applied to those that are in the flesh.
For the life of soul is in the blood, we are living souls in this physical realm, and need the Blood on this side.

But if you die, and no longer have blood (in the flesh body) then The Blood of The Lamb cannot do anything for you, Now it is necessary for the fire alone to cleanse and Redeem.

The Blood is important for our souls while we live and breath in a physical body, not for our spirits.

God's wrath cleans and redeems? God's wrath cleans and redeems! 2knowhim, so God has really made a mess of things, has He not? All that trouble He went through to save His own, when He, in the first place, knew that He was going to save the wicked all along. What was He thinking when He sent His Son to Redeem His beloved ones, when He knew all would be pardoned? Why did He even kick us out of Eden, is He not a merciful God, surely He knew we will be forgiven. But yet, He still cursed us with spiritual death. I bet some would even question God as to why He kicked Lucifer out of Heaven? Again, why did He, if all would eventually be forgiven? I bet it has something to do with His glory. You know, that glory which wickedness run from because it cannot be present before it.

I wonder why God just did not show His glory in Eden to rid evil from the very beginning? Maybe that has to do with giving men a choice about whom he will serve. Wait, does that mean that there will be two kingdoms in the Messiah's Kingdom? One for Christ and they who chose Him and one for Lucifer and his? This is only logical to conclude, seeing that under Universal Salvation, all is forgiven and since there are no consequences to our deeds, they who wanted to have Lucifer for their god will still be able to worship him? If God disapproves of this, He will just simply punish us a little and then we can do it over and ove and over again, until eternity starts over.











Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Heb_3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

 
Oct 12, 2011
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God's wrath cleans and redeems? God's wrath cleans and redeems! 2knowhim, so God has really made a mess of things, has He not? All that trouble He went through to save His own, when He, in the first place, knew that He was going to save the wicked all along. What was He thinking when He sent His Son to Redeem His beloved ones, when He knew all would be pardoned? Why did He even kick us out of Eden, is He not a merciful God, surely He knew we will be forgiven. But yet, He still cursed us with spiritual death. I bet some would even question God as to why He kicked Lucifer out of Heaven? Again, why did He, if all would eventually be forgiven? I bet it has something to do with His glory. You know, that glory which wickedness run from because it cannot be present before it.

I wonder why God just did not show His glory in Eden to rid evil from the very beginning? Maybe that has to do with giving men a choice about whom he will serve. Wait, does that mean that there will be two kingdoms in the Messiah's Kingdom? One for Christ and they who chose Him and one for Lucifer and his? This is only logical to conclude, seeing that under Universal Salvation, all is forgiven and since there are no consequences to our deeds, they who wanted to have Lucifer for their god will still be able to worship him? If God disapproves of this, He will just simply punish us a little and then we can do it over and ove and over again, until eternity starts over.











Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Heb_3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.




Well, ......If you believe all that, then you are more confused than I originally thought.

And those scriptures you posted, I believe whole heartily, but.......they have to do with ages, not eternity.
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
Well, ......If you believe all that, then you are more confused than I originally thought.

And those scriptures you posted, I believe whole heartily, but.......they have to do with ages, not eternity.
Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Heb_3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

The word "see" is in the future sense, and the word "enter" is in the future sense....meaning it aint gonna happen.




Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The word "everlasting" in the above verses is the same as the greek word everlasting in the below verse. So, if there punishment is not everlasting, then neither is our life in Christ.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
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Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Heb_3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.

The word "see" is in the future sense, and the word "enter" is in the future sense....meaning it aint gonna happen.




Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The word "everlasting" in the above verses is the same as the greek word everlasting in the below verse. So, if there punishment is not everlasting, then neither is our life in Christ.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You need to get a better translation. There is neither Everlasting life or Everlasting Punishment in Scripture. Those are English words.



Joh 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

Joh 3:36 he who is believing in the Son, hath life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God doth remain upon him.'

Rom 4:15 for the law doth work wrath; for where law is not, neither is transgression.

YLT
Heb 3:11 so I sware in My anger, If they shall enter into My rest--!')

CLV
Heb 3:11 As I swear in My indignation, 'If they shall be entering into My stopping-!'"
 
I

Israel

Guest
God's wrath cleans and redeems? God's wrath cleans and redeems! 2knowhim, so God has really made a mess of things, has He not? All that trouble He went through to save His own, when He, in the first place, knew that He was going to save the wicked all along. What was He thinking when He sent His Son to Redeem His beloved ones, when He knew all would be pardoned? Why did He even kick us out of Eden, is He not a merciful God, surely He knew we will be forgiven. But yet, He still cursed us with spiritual death. I bet some would even question God as to why He kicked Lucifer out of Heaven? Again, why did He, if all would eventually be forgiven? I bet it has something to do with His glory. You know, that glory which wickedness run from because it cannot be present before it.

I wonder why God just did not show His glory in Eden to rid evil from the very beginning? Maybe that has to do with giving men a choice about whom he will serve. Wait, does that mean that there will be two kingdoms in the Messiah's Kingdom? One for Christ and they who chose Him and one for Lucifer and his? This is only logical to conclude, seeing that under Universal Salvation, all is forgiven and since there are no consequences to our deeds, they who wanted to have Lucifer for their god will still be able to worship him? If God disapproves of this, He will just simply punish us a little and then we can do it over and ove and over again, until eternity starts over.














Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Heb_3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.


Isaiah 57:15-19

15For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

16For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.

17For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.

18I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.

19I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.


What souls are His?


Ezekiel 18:1-6



1The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,

2What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

3As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

5But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,

6And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
 
K

krisbrian

Guest
You need to get a better translation. There is neither Everlasting life or Everlasting Punishment in Scripture. Those are English words.
Everlasting
G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

Thayer
aiōnios
Thayer Definition:
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting