Universal Reconciliation

[2knowhim]

When you can you may want to explain your belief about resurrection. What you have stated so far on it is contradiction.

As we are partakers of His Sufferings, we are also partakers of His Resurrection, this is an on going thing, until we put off this tabernacle, this body of death completely. This is the only Resurrection I know of.

We are being conformed unto His death, That we may be partakers of His divine Nature, here and now. This is The Aionion Life of Christ abiding in us that is Incorruptible.
It is not our own, but belongs to Him, and we get to partake of it, that lifts us out of this present evil age, and into His Glorious Kingdom. NOW. This is what is meant by, He kills and makes Alive, He wounds and He heals, He The Lord does all these things. Praise you Lord.

That means we see as He sees, we feel as He feels, we hear as He hears, we judge as He judges, where He goes we follow, If He is not moving, we wait till He does.

We worship in the Heavens, we dwell in the Heavens, our citizenship is in the Heavens. He is always before us, and the world and most of Christianity has never known and still will never know, what I'm talking about on this side. But there are those who read this that do, because they share in the same kind of Fellowship, that is not of this world, and not in a building.



First you said you do not believe in a resurrection of the flesh body, then you admit that Christ's resurrected body indeed had flesh and bones. Contradiction.

It's only a contradiction in your mind because of your understanding. Why did they not know Him?
Jesus had the Spirit without measure, we don't we are a corporate body, joined together in the Unity of the Faith, and we still wait for the rest of our brothers and sisters to die as we have died.


The Resurrection is not What you have been taught, or what you believe it to be.
It is not a world wide event, the same as the Rapture theory is not a world wide event, It's only Those who have never experienced the things I'm talking about, that are still looking for Him to return, and they will not see it. And the whole time your waiting for Him to return, you are missing out on sharing in Him NOW, the same as the Religious of His Day, they expected Him to return and do things differently than what He did.

There is a common Salvation that Scriptures talk about and most Christians only share in that, but I am here to tell you, Their is so much more, PRESS, towards the mark of the High Calling in Christ Jesus.

Let go of your doctrines and say "here am I Lord Teach me" and you would be surprised what He will do.

 

[Tombo]

It's only a contradiction in your mind because of your understanding. Why did they not know Him?
Jesus had the Spirit without measure, we don't we are a corporate body, joined together in the Unity of the Faith, and we still wait for the rest of our brothers and sisters to die as we have died.


The Resurrection is not What you have been taught, or what you believe it to be.
It is not a world wide event, the same as the Rapture theory is not a world wide event, It's only Those who have never experienced the things I'm talking about, that are still looking for Him to return, and they will not see it. And the whole time your waiting for Him to return, you are missing out on sharing in Him NOW, the same as the Religious of His Day, they expected Him to return and do things differently than what He did.

There is a common Salvation that Scriptures talk about and most Christians only share in that, but I am here to tell you, Their is so much more, PRESS, towards the mark of the High Calling in Christ Jesus.

Let go of your doctrines and say "here am I Lord Teach me" and you would be surprised what He will do.

I can't believe what I just read!!!! I'm baffled.

John 5:28-29 "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when ALL WHO ARE IN THE TOMBS will hear His voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the ressurection of judgment."

I would like to know how you "experienced" these things you speak of? And who's teaching are you following? And please don't tell me God revealed these things to you. You must have been reading/listening to someone or some people's teachings on this.

This is nothing but modern day sadduceean teaching. They didn't believe in the resurrection. How you can read the verse I just showed you and say that the resurrection won't be a world-wide event, I'll never know.

Tom

 

[2knowhim]

I can't believe what I just read!!!! I'm baffled.

John 5:28-29 "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when ALL WHO ARE IN THE TOMBS will hear His voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the ressurection of judgment."

I would like to know how you "experienced" these things you speak of? And who's teaching are you following? And please don't tell me God revealed these things to you. You must have been reading/listening to someone or some people's teachings on this.

This is nothing but modern day sadduceean teaching. They didn't believe in the resurrection. How you can read the verse I just showed you and say that the resurrection won't be a world-wide event, I'll never know.

Tom

Yes, that did happen, or haven't you read:


Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

I know that you do not grasp the Universal Concept of What He accomplished through His Death and Resurrection.

It's like when the Scriptures say God is Love,......It's not something He does, it's who He IS.
The Same as when Christ says I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE, HE IS.

 

[2knowhim]

Knowing about Him, and KNOWING HIM is two different things.

 

[Tombo]

Yes, that did happen, or haven't you read:


Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

I know that you do not grasp the Universal Concept of What He accomplished through His Death and Resurrection.

It's like when the Scriptures say God is Love,......It's not something He does, it's who He IS.
The Same as when Christ says I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE, HE IS.

The verse you quoted says MANY bodies of the saints, not all. Again, John 5:28-29 "for an hour is coming when ALL WHO ARE IN THE TOMBS will hear His voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the ressurection of judgment." Where, in the verse that you quoted, does it speak of anyone being judged??? It simply says they went into the holy city.

Your are quite lost on this matter. If you can ignore the clear teaching of the Bible that Jesus came into this world to give to His chosen ones (and only His chosen ones) eternal life, then there is really nothing left to say.
Your positions are so convoluted that I don't think anyone here can follow them, which is a good thing.
I pray that God will show you the way out of this web of deceit that has you bound.

Tom

 

[2knowhim]

Heb 2:8 All dost Thou subject underneath his feet.For in the subjection of all to him, He leaves nothing unsubject to him. Yet now we are not as yet seeing all subject to him."

Heb 2:9 Yet we are observing Jesus, Who has been made some bit inferior to messengers (because of the suffering of death, wreathed with glory and honor), so that in the grace of God, He should be tasting death for the sake of everyone."




Joh 12:31 Now is the judging of this world. Now shall the Chief of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I should be exalted out of the earth, shall be drawing all to Myself."
Joh 12:33 Now this He said, signifying by what death He was about to be dying."


1Co 15:20 (Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing."
1Co 15:21 For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead."
1Co 15:22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified."

 

[enochson]

The verse you quoted says MANY bodies of the saints, not all. Again, John 5:28-29 "for an hour is coming when ALL WHO ARE IN THE TOMBS will hear His voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the ressurection of judgment." Where, in the verse that you quoted, does it speak of anyone being judged??? It simply says they went into the holy city.

Your are quite lost on this matter. If you can ignore the clear teaching of the Bible that Jesus came into this world to give to His chosen ones (and only His chosen ones) eternal life, then there is really nothing left to say.
Your positions are so convoluted that I don't think anyone here can follow them, which is a good thing.
I pray that God will show you the way out of this web of deceit that has you bound.

Tom

What do you think when ever knee will bow is about. I think many will be in a state of damn I miss it. I do think alot of christian will be saying the same thing.

 

[krisbrian]

What do you think when ever knee will bow is about..

Even when a judge walks into the courtroom, all rise, even the guilty.

 

[Tombo]

Heb 2:8 All dost Thou subject underneath his feet.For in the subjection of all to him, He leaves nothing unsubject to him. Yet now we are not as yet seeing all subject to him."

Heb 2:9 Yet we are observing Jesus, Who has been made some bit inferior to messengers (because of the suffering of death, wreathed with glory and honor), so that in the grace of God, He should be tasting death for the sake of everyone."




Joh 12:31 Now is the judging of this world. Now shall the Chief of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I should be exalted out of the earth, shall be drawing all to Myself."
Joh 12:33 Now this He said, signifying by what death He was about to be dying."


1Co 15:20 (Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing."
1Co 15:21 For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead."
1Co 15:22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified."

You are once again making the mistake of thinking that the "all" refers to every single human being.
Even in Hebrews 2:9 that you quoted,.....If you would go on and read Hebrews 2:10 you will see the mistake. "For it was fitting that He, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing MANY sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering." Does many mean all???
God bless.

Tom

 

[2knowhim]

You are once again making the mistake of thinking that the "all" refers to every single human being.
Even in Hebrews 2:9 that you quoted,.....If you would go on and read Hebrews 2:10 you will see the mistake. "For it was fitting that He, for whom and by whom all things exist, in bringing MANY sons to glory, should make the founder of their salvation perfect through suffering." Does many mean all???
God bless.

Tom

No, I don't think so. I addressed this issue in Great detail in post 161.

"many sons to glory" is not the same thing as The salvation of All Tom.

Many are servants and never grow to Sonship, therefore they have never experienced His Sufferings, and it's because of this That many that are Saved will not share in His Glory either, but that's got nothing to do with their Salvation.

 

[2knowhim]

Rom_8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


2Ti_2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


It takes a Revelation from The Holy Spirit to see what this is saying.

Through the Suffering of Christ is The Revealing of His Glory, maybe that makes it a little more clear.

 

[AnandaHya]

I can't believe what I just read!!!! I'm baffled.

John 5:28-29 "Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when ALL WHO ARE IN THE TOMBS will hear His voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the ressurection of judgment."

I would like to know how you "experienced" these things you speak of? And who's teaching are you following? And please don't tell me God revealed these things to you. You must have been reading/listening to someone or some people's teachings on this.

This is nothing but modern day sadduceean teaching. They didn't believe in the resurrection. How you can read the verse I just showed you and say that the resurrection won't be a world-wide event, I'll never know.

Tom

Universalist doctrine.... sigh.

has anyone introduced these verses to the conversation?

Romans 8
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

the author of Romans awaits resurrection/redemption of not only the spirit but the BODY as well.

 

[AnandaHya]

What do you think when ever knee will bow is about. I think many will be in a state of damn I miss it. I do think alot of christian will be saying the same thing.

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

 

[2knowhim]

Universalist doctrine.... sigh.



has anyone introduced these verses to the conversation?

Romans 8
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

the author of Romans awaits resurrection/redemption of not only the spirit but the BODY as well.

Eternal Torment, and Annihilation of most people.........."Sigh"
Paul also wrote in Phil.


Php 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having my righteousness, which is of law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is from God for faith:"
Php 3:10 to know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, conforming to His death,

To fully know the Power of His Resurrection is one thing.

Php 3:11 if somehow I should be attaining to the resurrection that is out from among the dead.

But this one is The one That I was Referring too, in the conversation with Tribesman, and Tom.

There is a difference, they are two different things.


Php 3:12 Not that I already obtained, or am already perfected. Yet I am pursuing, if I may be grasping also that for which I was grasped also by Christ Jesus."

Why would He use perfected in connection with this kind of Resurrection?

 

[enochson]

Even when a judge walks into the courtroom, all rise, even the guilty.

this aren't a up thing this is a on your face thing.

 

[tribesman]

It's only a contradiction in your mind because of your understanding.

No. It's a clear contradiction - generally and objectively speaking - to first say that you do not believe in a fleshly resurrection and then assent to that the resurrected Christ had a fleshly body. Are you then of the view that only Christ will have such a body? This aside your denial of the general resurrection is unscriptural.

 

[2knowhim]

No. It's a clear contradiction - generally and objectively speaking - to first say that you do not believe in a fleshly resurrection and then assent to that the resurrected Christ had a fleshly body. Are you then of the view that only Christ will have such a body? This aside your denial of the general resurrection is unscriptural.

Tribesman,

Are you just wanting to argue?

I thought I made myself perfectly clear. You know as well as I do that Jesus Himself said to Thomas
that He was not a spirit, but flesh and bone.


Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


But do you think that it was the same body that went into the tomb?
If it was, how was He able to walk through the doors and them being shut?

I told you the only Resurrection that I know of in that same post, did you read it?
As in the post to Anadahya, Phil. 3: This is the resurrection that I know about. As far as the dead that
are not saved before they die physically, I don't know about that.

I just know That He IS The Resurrection and The Life, (here and Now) But I am VERY sure that All shall be made Alive,
(Quickened) shall put on immortality, that is what Paul says. And that can only come through The Risen Christ. 1Co 15:51

I also know from Ecc. that the body goes back to the dust, and the spirit goes back to God who gave it.

 

[enochson]

greeting sis I believe the body of sin he became on the cross went body to the ground. they body they saw was a body they knew and not the light he had become. I mean if your on the right hand of God how big would your body need to be?

 

[2knowhim]

Joshua=Jesus
Jordan=Death
Egypt=The World


Jos 5:1 And it came to pass, when all the kings of the Amorites, which were on the side of Jordan westward, and all the kings of the Canaanites, which were by the sea, heard that the LORD had dried up the waters of Jordan from before the children of Israel, until we were passed over, that their heart melted, neither was there spirit in them any more, because of the children of Israel.
Jos 5:2 At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time.
Jos 5:3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.
Jos 5:4 And this is the cause why Joshua did circumcise: All the people that came out of Egypt, that were males, even all the men of war, died in the wilderness by the way, after they came out of Egypt.
Jos 5:5 Now all the people that came out were circumcised: but all the people that were born in the wilderness by the way as they came forth out of Egypt, them they had not circumcised.
Jos 5:6 For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
Jos 5:7 And their children, whom he raised up in their stead, them Joshua circumcised: for they were uncircumcised, because they had not circumcised them by the way.


Jos 5:8 And it came to pass, when they had done circumcising all the people, that they abode in their places in the camp, till they were whole.
Jos 5:9 And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day have I rolled away the reproach of Egypt from off you. Wherefore the name of the place is called Gilgal unto this day.
Jos 5:10 And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho.


Jos 5:11 And they did eat of the old corn of the land on the morrow after the passover, unleavened cakes, and parched corn in the selfsame day.


Jos 5:12 And the manna ceased on the morrow after they had eaten of the old corn of the land; neither had the children of Israel manna any more; but they did eat of the fruit of the land of Canaan that year.


Jos 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.


This is a beautiful picture of what will become of those that were not Circumcised on this side of Death,
But you can believe they will be at some point after they cross over Jordan (death).
And by none other than our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, (FOR THERE IS NO OTHER NAME, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED).


Isa 50:2 Wherefore, when I came, was there no man? when I called, was there none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver? behold, at my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness: their fish stinketh, because there is no water, and dieth for thirst.

Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
Isa 28:19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.


1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

A RANSOM FOR ALL
TO BE TESTIFIED IN DUE TIME

 

[cfultz3]

This is a beautiful picture of what will become of those that were not Circumcised on this side of Death,
But you can believe they will be at some point after they cross over Jordan (death).
And by none other than our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, (FOR THERE IS NO OTHER NAME, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED).

From your own mouth, I ask you this:

Do you say and believe that spiritual death, that is, being sent to Hades to know the fiery wrath of God which consumes even down to the dungeon of Hades, has the same effect of santification as the blood of Jesus?

If this is the case, then, I ask you from your own mouth, what was the purpose of Jesus having to die to save some from the fiery flames of God's wrath which shall be the everlasting torment experienced by those sent there?