Verse for "once saved always saved"?

[Sagart]

Not genuine belief (John 3:18) which would have resulted in the proper action instead of no longer following Jesus (John 8:31). What did Jesus say about these co called disciples that no longer followed Him? John 6:64 - But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

Works-salvationists cannot have it both ways. Either we are saved through faith or else we are saved by works. Either Christ did it all or else we did some of it. Salvation is through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST "alone" (Ephesians 2:8,9) which is not to be misunderstood with an empty profession of faith that remains "alone" -- barren of works (James 2:14). *Faith in Christ alone saves because Christ is the OBJECT of our faith and is the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. *No supplements needed. It's not about we must produce works in order to become saved but that we will produce works (all believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful) if we truly are saved. Faith - root of salvation. Works - fruit.

There is no hole that is missing in salvation through faith, not works, there is only your faulty human logic that fails to comprehend the truth. Your error seems to stem from you believing that ALL belief is the same "expect for the lack of works" and you cannot grasp a DEEPER faith which trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation. This also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

The Bible clearly teaches in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 2:8; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..). You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in each of these passages to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in these many many passages of scripture in connection with receiving salvation. Do these passages say faith "plus something else?" NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST alone.

In CONTEXT, James 2:24 is referring to faith that remains "alone" -- barren of works, which is not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 3:24; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9).

*James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).*

This post has some very serious problems, including, but not limited to, the following:

1. It confuses what the Bible says about one’s justification with what it says about one’s salvation.

2. It confuses what the Bible says about doing good, with what the Bible says about keeping the Law.

3. It ignores the requirements for salvation specifically mentioned by Jesus Himself: continuing to abide in Him, continuing to obey Him, continuing to do the will of His Father.

4. This thread is about the doctrine, “OSAS,” and this post completely ignores numerous passages in the New Testament that explicitly warn Christians of the danger of losing their salvation.

5. The interpretation in this post of the passages from the New Testament that are either quoted or cited radically conflicts with the interpretation of them by the Greek Ante-Nicene Church Fathers who were fluent in the language in which the passages were written.

 

[Snoozy]

Sagart once born again how can u be unborn?

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by mailmandan

Not genuine belief (John 3:18) which would have resulted in the proper action instead of no longer following Jesus (John 8:31). What did Jesus say about these co called disciples that no longer followed Him? John 6:64 - But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.

65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, for it was he who would betray Him, being one of the twelve.

Works-salvationists cannot have it both ways. Either we are saved through faith or else we are saved by works. Either Christ did it all or else we did some of it. Salvation is through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST "alone" (Ephesians 2:8,9) which is not to be misunderstood with an empty profession of faith that remains "alone" -- barren of works (James 2:14). *Faith in Christ alone saves because Christ is the OBJECT of our faith and is the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. *No supplements needed. It's not about we must produce works in order to become saved but that we will produce works (all believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful) if we truly are saved. Faith - root of salvation. Works - fruit.

There is no hole that is missing in salvation through faith, not works, there is only your faulty human logic that fails to comprehend the truth. Your error seems to stem from you believing that ALL belief is the same "expect for the lack of works" and you cannot grasp a DEEPER faith which trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation. This also explains why you have so much faith in "water and works."

The Bible clearly teaches in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Ephesians 2:8; 2 Timothy 3:15; 1 John 5:13 etc..). You don't need to add the word "alone" next to belief/faith in each of these passages to figure out that the words belief/faith "stand alone" in these many many passages of scripture in connection with receiving salvation. Do these passages say faith "plus something else?" NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST alone.

In CONTEXT, James 2:24 is referring to faith that remains "alone" -- barren of works, which is not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 3:24; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9).

*James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).*

This post has some very serious problems, including, but not limited to, the following:

1. It confuses what the Bible says about one’s justification with what it says about one’s salvation.

Justification is the commencement of one's salvation. When we are saved the first step is justification. Both are by grace through faith.

2. It confuses what the Bible says about doing good, with what the Bible says about keeping the Law.

???????????

3. It ignores the requirements for salvation specifically mentioned by Jesus Himself: r.

The only requirement is that you need to be saved. Continuing to abide in Him, continuing to obey Him, continuing to do the will of His Father are the consequence of God saving us.

4. This thread is about the doctrine, “OSAS,” and this post completely ignores numerous passages in the New Testament that explicitly warn Christians of the danger of losing their salvation.

There are no verses which warn about the dangers of losing your salvation. You are the RECIPIENT, the one being saved. God is doing the saving. Will He fail? Jesus says NO - John 6.39. The warning verses are to those who have not been saved to warn them of the alternative.

5. The interpretation in this post of the passages from the New Testament that are either quoted or cited radically conflicts with the interpretation of them by the Greek Ante-Nicene Church Fathers who were fluent in the language in which the passages were written.

Praise God. The Ante Nicene fathers never understood Paul.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This post has some very serious problems, including, but not limited to, the following:

1. It confuses what the Bible says about one’s justification with what it says about one’s salvation.

2. It confuses what the Bible says about doing good, with what the Bible says about keeping the Law.

3. It ignores the requirements for salvation specifically mentioned by Jesus Himself: continuing to abide in Him, continuing to obey Him, continuing to do the will of His Father.

4. This thread is about the doctrine, “OSAS,” and this post completely ignores numerous passages in the New Testament that explicitly warn Christians of the danger of losing their salvation.

5. The interpretation in this post of the passages from the New Testament that are either quoted or cited radically conflicts with the interpretation of them by the Greek Ante-Nicene Church Fathers who were fluent in the language in which the passages were written.

You must read a different bible.

1. The Bible says justification is free, It is not earned. Justification itself is a legal term, it means to be declaired righteous or innocent of the crime or you have been charged with.

2. The Bible says there are non righteous (we can’t be good) and that no one has kept the law as required but one (jesus) and that the law was given for one purpose only (to lead to christ) after we have come to christ, the law has been completed in us, and is no longer needed.

3. There is only one requirment for salvation. entrust your eternity to God and call out to him in total humility to save you. Salavtion, like justification, is not do0ne because of our righteous deeds (Titus 3: 5) by by Gods mercy and grace.

4. If we can lose our salvation, it must be earned, hence it was never a gift to begin with, And it must be earned by works of righteousness which we do. Which counters what paul said to Titus, what Jesus said to the woman (John 4) Nocodemus (john 3) and the many (john 6)

5, Instead If listening to men, why do you not listen to God? You would be much better off.

 

[Sagart]

Sagart once born again how can u be unborn?

BY dying! The Bible warns repeatedly in many places that a Christian can die in his sins and be eternally lost.

 

[Sagart]

When we are saved the first step is justification. Both are by grace through faith.

James 2:20. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.
24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25. In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26. For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

The only requirement is that you need to be saved. Continuing to abide in Him, continuing to obey Him, continuing to do the will of His Father are the consequence of God saving us.

Very imaginative—but the very opposite of what Jesus taught!

There are no verses which warn about the dangers of losing your salvation.

Maybe not in a Harry Potter novel—but there are many of them in the Bible. We have posted a few of them, but every time we do so, they are ignored as the naysayers continue to ignore the word of God, and repeat over and over again their vain philosophy that makes God out to be no more holy, righteous, or just than a radicalized Sunni Muslim; and makes heaven out to be a den thieves, murderers, adulterers, rapists, and child molesters. Furthermore, their vain philosophy reduces to incompetent fools the men whom God chose to use to formalize the doctrine of the Trinity, and to establish the New Testament Canon!

You are the RECIPIENT, the one being saved. God is doing the saving. Will He fail? Jesus says NO - John 6.39.

God never fails—He has successfully done His part in giving to us the grace to be justified; and He is successfully doing His part in giving to us who are being saved (1 Cor. 1:18; 2 Cor. 2:15) the necessary grace; and it is our part to continue in the faith.

Col. 1:21. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22. yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23. if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

John 6.39

John 6:39. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.”

It is the will God the Father that Christians do not sin, but very many of them do sin—thwarting the will of God! It is also the will of God the Father that of all that He has given to Jesus, He lose nothing—but He lost Judas and countless others since then because they chose to do their own thing rather than to continue in the faith.

Praise God. The Ante Nicene fathers never understood Paul.

How remarkable it is that some men who cannot even understand an English translation of a simple verse in the Bible like John 6:39 believe that they can understand the Apostle Paul writing in a language that they cannot even read using such Greek literary devices such as prosopopoeiae to communicate spiritual truths in delicate situations, but believe that the Greek Ante-Nicene Church Fathers—born raised, and educated in the same Hellenistic culture as Paul—cannot understand him.

The warning verses are to those who have not been saved to warn them of the alternative.

Is it your understanding that when Jesus, Paul, John, Peter, and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews specifically addressed them to Christians, they did so by mistake?

(All quotations from the Scriptures are from the NASB, 1995 Update)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

BY dying! The Bible warns repeatedly in many places that a Christian can die in his sins and be eternally lost.

So when one is “born again” and is past from death to “life” that “life” being called “eternal” it can be lost?

When does “eternal” stop being “eternal”?

 

[mailmandan]

James 2:20. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.
24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25. In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26. For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

Let's examine James 2:14-26.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous".

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In James 2:25, Rahab believed in the Lord with authentic faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her authentic faith. She showed that her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers show theirs.

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

In a nutshell, man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

Col. 1:21. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22. yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—
23. if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

In Colossians 1:23, we read - ..if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. The word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."

That is, continuance would show that the person's faith was firmly rooted and established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek (using the Gk. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away? They believed in vain -- without purpose, to no effect.

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be eternally saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, vain faith was not rooted and established in the gospel to begin with.

John 6:39. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.”

Amen!

It is the will God the Father that Christians do not sin, but very many of them do sin—thwarting the will of God!

1 John 1:8 - If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us. 1 John 2:1 - My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

It is also the will of God the Father that of all that He has given to Jesus, He lose nothing—but He lost Judas and countless others since then because they chose to do their own thing rather than to continue in the faith.

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost. Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Jesus (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).

Syllogism

1. All given by the Father to Jesus are kept.
2. Judas was not kept.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father

Or, this way.

1. None of those given to Jesus by the Father will be lost by Jesus.
2. Judas is lost.
3. Judas was not given to Jesus by the Father.

 

[Snoozy]

BY dying! The Bible warns repeatedly in many places that a Christian can die in his sins and be eternally lost.

okay. once u lose ur salvation can u get it bacK? how do u know if u lost it? how many times can u get it back? how does this work.

 

[MarcR]

1 Jn 5:11-13
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
KJV


11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

hath given AAI This is the closest Greek equivalent to our English past tense. Admittedly there is not an exact correspondence.

The sense is definitely that we are in possession of eternal life at the time of Salvation.

If we possess eternal life at any time; it can not be lost or it was not eternal when we had it.

 

[notuptome]

Sanctification is a process and is ongoing until we die or are raptured from off the earth.

Salvation is a one time event. It is the Genesis of dead in sin to alive in Christ. It is as significant as the transformation as the caterpillar into the butterfly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[beastslayer1970]

Sanctification is a process and is ongoing until we die or are raptured from off the earth.

Salvation is a one time event. It is the Genesis of dead in sin to alive in Christ. It is as significant as the transformation as the caterpillar into the butterfly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

We have positional sanctification, given to us at conversion and then ongoing practical sanctification you described above.

We have positional righteousness, given to us at conversion and then ongoing practical righteousness.

We have positional consecration, given to us at conversion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We have positional sanctification, given to us at conversion and then ongoing practical sanctification you described above.

We have positional righteousness, given to us at conversion and then ongoing practical righteousness.

We have positional consecration, given to us at conversion.

Agree.

Yet if this is true. And our position in Christ has made us acceptable of God. Which is required. Because our condition will never meet that standard then how can we ever lose salvation? Since our condition would never meet our position anyway (until we are glorified)

edit, I am not saying why bother trying or go live in sin, I am just asking a question. We can talk about how we grow in christ (commiting less sins later)

 

[Enow]

And how are we to know who has the Holy Spirit in them?

How would I be able to tell that Enow has the Holy Spirit in him? What signs would I be looking for or would I just "know"?

How do we know if the Holy Spirit is in others? Only God knows. One can know if someone is a believer by his profession.

I confess that Jesus Christ is my Saviour and that God raised Him from the dead. It is by my testimony that one can tell I am a believer and that I have the Holy Spirit in me as promised at my salvation.

Now, as for whether or not I am abiding in Him as His disciple is another matter.

Paul addressed a falling away from the faith and identified that work of iniquity that was even happening back in his day wherein believes that they could receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign, for which God permitted a strong delusion to occur for believing that lie as He who let will let, until He be taken out of the way; that restraining power of the Holy Spirit; not that the Holy Spirit be taken from that wayward believer because of Ephesians 4:30.

2 Thessalonians 2:[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way........[SUP]9 [/SUP]Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,[SUP]10 [/SUP]And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.[SUP]11 [/SUP]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The damnation in this case is being castaways as in left behind to become vessels unto dishonor in His House, but still His.

Paul goes on to remind believers of the traditions taught to reprove that iniquity for causing so many to fall away from the faith by.

2 Thessalonians 2:[SUP]13 [/SUP]But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:[SUP]14 [/SUP]Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So the majority of tongue speakers are at risk when they refer to that second blessing of being cast into the bed of the great tribulation for their spiritual fornication and uttering the depths of Satan for which they speak.

Revelation 2:[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. [SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

So holding fast to the traditions taught of us in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 is the call to do in these latter days BUT in getting to my point; those that fall away from the faith are still His as Paul goes on to address those that are wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith that do not follow after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly as most are in those "movements of the "Spirit" " which is not the Holy Spirit. Paul addressed them as not the enemy but as brothers to admonish as those of faith are to withdraw from those that err to admonish them because they are still His.

2 Thessalonians 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.[SUP]3 [/SUP]But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.[SUP]4 [/SUP]And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.[SUP] 7 [/SUP]For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;..............[SUP]14 [/SUP]And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

You can only know the Holy Spirit by Him being in you.

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So we can only attest to His words by faith that by their profession of belief in Him that the Holy Spirit is in them.

One can say we know that the Holy Spirit is in others, but it is more significantly done by faith in Him and His words when hearing their profession of their beliefs in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead.

 

[beastslayer1970]

1 Jn 5:11-13
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
KJV


11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

hath given AAI This is the closest Greek equivalent to our English past tense. Admittedly there is not an exact correspondence.

The sense is definitely that we are in possession of eternal life at the time of Salvation.

If we possess eternal life at any time; it can not be lost or it was not eternal when we had it.

Jesus defined eternal Life in John 17:1-3

Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, [SUP]2 [/SUP]even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. [SUP]3 [/SUP]This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.


I am splitting a frogs hair here, but really just curious as to others opinions on it.

Is Salvation different than eternal life?


I am beginning a study into this, because I think we tend to think of salvation and the gift of eternal life as one in the same and that they are synonymous, but after reading and studying things a bit deeper I compelled to study to see if they are one or the same or 2 different things.

TO be clear I do not believe you work for either one, it is all Jesus work.

Jesus was not given eternal life on the cross, he was given eternal life in the tomb. So starting with that truth, I am not investigating the matter.

I do think many look at the cross as more than they should. The cross was for the forgiveness of sin[shed blood] and delivering us from the powers of darkness and moving us into the kingdom of his dear son. I believe many credit the cross with new life, but that is not really when new life begins. The cross is where the old man dies and new life begins in the tomb when the spirit of him that raised Jesus from the dead, gives life to your mortal body.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus defined eternal Life in John 17:1-3

Jesus spoke these things; and lifting up His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, [SUP]2 [/SUP]even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life. [SUP]3 [/SUP]This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.


I am splitting a frogs hair here, but really just curious as to others opinions on it.

Is Salvation different than eternal life?I am beginning a study into this, because I think we tend to think of salvation and the gift of eternal life as one in the same and that they are synonymous, but after reading and studying things a bit deeper I compelled to study to see if they are one or the same or 2 different things.

TO be clear I do not believe you work for either one, it is all Jesus work.

Jesus was not given eternal life on the cross, he was given eternal life in the tomb. So starting with that truth, I am not investigating the matter.

I do think many look at the cross as more than they should. The cross was for the forgiveness of sin[shed blood] and delivering us from the powers of darkness and moving us into the kingdom of his dear son. I believe many credit the cross with new life, but that is not really when new life begins. The cross is where the old man dies and new life begins in the tomb when the spirit of him that raised Jesus from the dead, gives life to your mortal body.

The term salvation in the greek actually means to be rescued. One who is saved then as such would be rescued. The question one must ask is what are we rescued from. WHy do people call on the name of the lord to be rescued (saved)

Eternal life is I believe the result of being rescued. While I agree, they are two different things, they are inter related by the the death burial and resurrection of christ.

The cross brings us salvation
the ressurection brings us eternal life.

 

[Chester]

When does “eternal” stop being “eternal”?

John 17:3: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Eternal life stops being eternal life when we no longer know God and Jesus Christ.

 

[Chester]

If we possess eternal life at any time; it can not be lost or it was not eternal when we had it.

This is human reasoning based on the definition of the English word "eternal". (My human opinion

The original question in this thread asked if there is a verse that clearly says that once a person he will always be saved.

 

[preacher4truth]

Is Salvation different than eternal life?I am beginning a study into this, because I think we tend to think of salvation and the gift of eternal life as one in the same and that they are synonymous, but after reading and studying things a bit deeper I compelled to study to see if they are one or the same or 2 different things.

Yes, they are two different things. Salvation is to be rescued and saved from sin. Eternal life is what this person will experience.

Jesus was not given eternal life on the cross, he was given eternal life in the tomb. So starting with that truth, I am not investigating the matter.

Sorry, but the above isn't a truth. Actually, *gasp* it's heresy. Jesus wasn't given eternal life. Ever. He is eternal life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

John 17:3: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Eternal life stops being eternal life when we no longer know God and Jesus Christ.

lol. So how can we KNOW someone, then stop KNOWING them.

Think about what you just said man, Do you KNOW Christ because of your own power. Or do you KNOW christ because he made you children of God.