Verse for "once saved always saved"?

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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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I also think John 6:39 tells us once we are saved the Father will keep us.

39 "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."


I understand your POV, I also struggled with the whole "free will thing" too. Once God's total sovereignty sunk in, along with learning more about this "gospel of the kingdom" Jesus spoke so much about, it all clicked and fit's together so tight, almost like truth, but I do believe once you're saved He will complete His work in you.
To say that John 6:39 is clearly teaching that "once any person is saved, that they will always be saved" requires some assumptions that the given text does not state:

John 6:39: And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day."

To make this mean OSAS you have to assume the group "those He has given Me" are only those who get saved and stay saved. And if you think that through, you wind up with five point Calvinism. God has decided who is going to be saved and has passed the rest of the human race by with no chance of redemption.

It is not God's will that any should perish, but that does not mean that no one will perish. So this verse is not necessarily saying that of of "those He has given me" none will be lost.

To make this verse teach OSAS, you have to come to the text with that assumption.

 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
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Too long to post the entire chapter, so some verses (in context though)....


Guaranteed completion....

Romans 8:28-30: "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified"

Romans 8:11: "...But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you"

Romans 8:15-17: "For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together" (The "if indeed" being confirmation that we will suffer with Him, since we're no longer of the world, and a servant is not greater than their Master)
 

Didymous

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Feb 22, 2018
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I don't know if any verse says definitively one way or another, and I don't know if anyone mentioned the verses I found(didn't want to search 57 pages), but I always thought these the closest. John 10:27-30.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
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but I always thought these the closest. John 10:27-30.
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.”

As opposed to the goats, who are not saved, and on judgment day He will say "I never knew you" (Matthew 7:21-23).
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.”

As opposed to the goats, who are not saved, and on judgment day He will say "I never knew you" (Matthew 7:21-23).
What is clear about these verses is that a sheep ongoingly has eternal life and will never perish. Praise the Lord! Please let's not minimize these blessed promises.

What is sometimes missed is that this promise is to the sheep and not to the goats. A sheep is (ongoingly) hearing (Greek present tense) Jesus' voice and He is ongoingly knowing them, and they are ongoingly following him. For the sheep the following promises hold 100%.

But then some will add to the verses an idea such as "once a sheep always a sheep" -- this is something the text does not say. A sheep is one who hears and follows. If one is not hearing and following he is not a sheep.

Can you make a sheep into a goat literally? Sure! If a sheep dies, let its body decay and go into the soil. Out of those nutrients will come fresh green grass! A goat comes along and eats if and now you have a sheep turned into a goat! Crazy idea? :p I guess so! but so is adding the statement "once a sheep always a sheep" to John 10.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Too long to post the entire chapter, so some verses (in context though)....


Guaranteed completion....

Romans 8:28-30: "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified"

Romans 8:11: "...But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you"

Romans 8:15-17: "For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together" (The "if indeed" being confirmation that we will suffer with Him, since we're no longer of the world, and a servant is not greater than their Master)
Hallelujah, amen! Beautiful verses!

All those verses are beautiful promises to the believer: but they don't state clearly that once you are saved (a believer) that you will always be saved (a believer).

If you think one of them does clearly state that once a person is saved that they will always be saved, please explain.

You say "guaranteed completion" - Amen! for the believer! (but not for the unbeliever!)
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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What is clear about these verses is that a sheep ongoingly has eternal life and will never perish. Praise the Lord! Please let's not minimize these blessed promises.

What is sometimes missed is that this promise is to the sheep and not to the goats. A sheep is (ongoingly) hearing (Greek present tense) Jesus' voice and He is ongoingly knowing them, and they are ongoingly following him. For the sheep the following promises hold 100%.

But then some will add to the verses an idea such as "once a sheep always a sheep" -- this is something the text does not say. A sheep is one who hears and follows. If one is not hearing and following he is not a sheep.

Can you make a sheep into a goat literally? Sure! If a sheep dies, let its body decay and go into the soil. Out of those nutrients will come fresh green grass! A goat comes along and eats if and now you have a sheep turned into a goat! Crazy idea? :p I guess so! but so is adding the statement "once a sheep always a sheep" to John 10.
While I appreciate your input Chester, I would give it more consideration if you'd produced scripture in which a sheep turned into a goat. As far as I know, there are none.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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While I appreciate your input Chester, I would give it more consideration if you'd produced scripture in which a sheep turned into a goat. As far as I know, there are none.
Exactly! My point is that there is no Scripture that says "once a sheep always a sheep" nor any Scripture that says "a sheep can be changed into a goat"!

So lets not use "once a sheep always a sheep" as a Biblical statement.

So lets not use "a sheep can be changed into a goat" as a Biblical statement.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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While I appreciate your input Chester, I would give it more consideration if you'd produced scripture in which a sheep turned into a goat. As far as I know, there are none.
So, Didymous, my view of salvation is simple:

Am I hearing and following? Am I a sheep? if so, I have the blessings of the next verses - Hallelujah - I am here!

If I am not hearing and following? I am not a sheep - and then I need to get saved!
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God
:

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

God does not take back His Gift of Salvation.


Oh but a person can walk away and choose to stop believing...

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Mmmm... I guess not



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Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God
:

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

God does not take back His Gift of Salvation.


Oh but a person can walk away and choose to stop believing...

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Mmmm... I guess not



Three verses pieced together to make your point: There is a lot a person can do using the same sort of process . . . the cults do it all the time . . . just saying . . . :)

But my question is there a verse that clearly says that once a person is saved, they are always saved?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Three verses pieced together to make your point: There is a lot a person can do using the same sort of process . . . the cults do it all the time . . . just saying . . . :)

But my question is there a verse that clearly says that once a person is saved, they are always saved?
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Yes. John 10:29

Romans 11:29

John 10:28

Any of those by themselves say OSAS.

But they don't use the words "once saved always saved". They use different words for the same meaning.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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There is no such scripture. ,because the apostles talk about not going back into bondage, which is going back to walking in the flesh. Jesus even said that a person that do go back is like a dog that vomits and turn back and eat it. He knew salvation could be lost.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
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Psalm 23:6b;
"And I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever".
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
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Psalm 23:6b;
"And I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever".
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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Psalm 23:6b;
"And I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever".
[FONT=&quot][h=1]Psalm 89:26-33 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.[/FONT]


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LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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There is no such scripture. ,because the apostles talk about not going back into bondage, which is going back to walking in the flesh. Jesus even said that a person that do go back is like a dog that vomits and turn back and eat it. He knew salvation could be lost.
No, Jesus said he NEVER was a sheep
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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Three verses pieced together to make your point: There is a lot a person can do using the same sort of process . . . the cults do it all the time . . . just saying . . . :)

But my question is there a verse that clearly says that once a person is saved, they are always saved?
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[FONT=&quot][h=1]John 14:16 King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[/FONT]


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LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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Amen...the "perfect tense" in Greek is very descriptive. It is also used in Jesus' words " It is finished".

Here is another one of those "perfect" uses.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.
YEAH!

I also say you don't have to believe in eternal security to be saved, tho.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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I believe in OSAS, but my trust is in Christ.