Walking In Spirit or Flesh.

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
8,173
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#61
Setting up a strawman I see?

Jesus' words are plain. If you love Him, you will obey Him. If you do not ACTUALLY OBEY HIM (ongoing), you do not love Him. You will not inherit eternal life. No matter what word twisting you may employ. Those who love Him ALSO believe in Him. And those who believe in Him believe in His Words. And Obey them (Demons believe but do not willingly obey). Thats how we know who the children of God are and who are the children of the Devil. Those who obey God are the children of God.

Jesus confirms this in the gospel of John Ch 8.
Ok back to the New testament and after the cross ..I notice those that hold to a more catholic soteriology usually don't really learn much past the book of Acts .
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye HAVE OBEYED ( PAST TENSE ) from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6.17 . The one 'act ' of 'obedience 'to be saved is to believe what Jesus has done and not on what you think your doing . Your not going to save yourself by your obedience.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
5,634
1,130
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#62
Ok back to the New testament and after the cross ..I notice those that hold to a more catholic soteriology usually don't really learn much past the book of Acts .
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye HAVE OBEYED ( PAST TENSE ) from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6.17 . The one 'act ' of 'obedience 'to be saved is to believe what Jesus has done and not on what you think your doing . Your not going to save yourself by your obedience.
Spot on. ;)
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
8,173
1,247
113
#63
John 8
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
Back in the OT again . I'm noticing you jump from OT to NT all over the place not recognising the most significant event which took place invetween .The answer to this is in verses we covered in Romans 6 .
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#64
Back in the OT again . I'm noticing you jump from OT to NT all over the place not recognising the most significant event which took place invetween .The answer to this is in verses we covered in Romans 6 .
It's amazing that you can disregard Jesus' own words and yet still claim to believe in Him.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,729
2,158
113
#65
It's amazing that you can disregard Jesus' own words and yet still claim to believe in Him.
Are the words of Jesus that He spoke while on earth more truth or more important than the other words in the Bible?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
8,173
1,247
113
#66
It's amazing that you can disregard Jesus' own words and yet still claim to believe in Him.
Do you notice the cross in between the OT and the NT ? The NT begins with the death of Christ. Jesus words are not just those in red . All the bible is the Word of God .
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#67
Ok back to the New testament and after the cross ..I notice those that hold to a more catholic soteriology usually don't really learn much past the book of Acts .
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye HAVE OBEYED ( PAST TENSE ) from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6.17 . The one 'act ' of 'obedience 'to be saved is to believe what Jesus has done and not on what you think your doing . Your not going to save yourself by your obedience.
Romans 6
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. <PRESENT TENSE>
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
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#68
Are the words of Jesus that He spoke while on earth more truth or more important than the other words in the Bible?
Jesus is my Lord. So what He says should be heeded. Are you free to disregard His Red Letter Words?
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#69
Do you notice the cross in between the OT and the NT ? The NT begins with the death of Christ. Jesus words are not just those in red . All the bible is the Word of God .
The NT church was built solely on OT scripture, and the Revelation of Jesus Christ (whose words you seem to feel you can ignore). The letters and gospels came years later. You're welcome.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
8,173
1,247
113
#70
Romans 6
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. <PRESENT TENSE>
Yes ' present ' because you ' Are ' . Its like a millionaire living as a poor man , because he doesn't know he is rich . Paul is saying you ARE free from the penalty of sin ,so live as that reality . Reckon it to be true because the Bible says it IS true of a believer . Instead your saying the opposite . Your saying no I don't believe I'm eternally saved free from the penalty of sin , I RECKON I need to attain my freedom from sin by my own sinless perfection .
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#71
Back in the OT again . I'm noticing you jump from OT to NT all over the place not recognising the most significant event which took place invetween .The answer to this is in verses we covered in Romans 6 .
All of scripture can be used. 2 Tim 3v16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Jesus Himself quoted the OT all the time. And you do know that He is the Lord, do you not? He in fact is the WORD that came from Heaven. You somehow think that the OT is not necessary or useful? Where in the NT does it say that?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,729
2,158
113
#73
Jesus is my Lord. So what He says should be heeded. Are you free to disregard His Red Letter Words?
I believe what Paul taught was given to him directly through revelation of Jesus Christ. While on earth, Jesus spoke to and taught the Jews. Paul's epistles are written to the body of Christ. Which one are you?
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#74
Yes ' present ' because you ' Are ' . Its like a millionaire living as a poor man , because he doesn't know he is rich . Paul is saying you ARE free from the penalty of sin ,so live as that reality . Reckon it to be true because the Bible says it IS true of a believer . Instead your saying the opposite . Your saying no I don't believe I'm eternally saved free from the penalty of sin , I RECKON I need to attain my freedom from sin by my own sinless perfection .
This will manifest in the walk or not. If you continue in your sins without repentance, you are not actually in the faith at all. You will know the true sons of God by their fruit.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#77
I believe what Paul taught was given to him directly through revelation of Jesus Christ. While on earth, Jesus spoke to and taught the Jews. Paul's epistles are written to the body of Christ. Which one are you?
Who was Cornelius then? Was Cornelius a believer? How did He come to believe in Christ? Through Paul or Peter?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
8,173
1,247
113
#78
The NT church was built solely on OT scripture, and the Revelation of Jesus Christ (whose words you seem to feel you can ignore). The letters and gospels came years later. You're welcome.
Isnt Jesus the head , the foundation of the Church ? without the NT you wouldn't have a clue about the NT . Especially not least due to the cross and the ' mysteries ' only revealed in the NT .
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,487
508
113
#79
Isnt Jesus the head , the foundation of the Church ? without the NT you wouldn't have a clue about the NT . Especially not least due to the cross and the ' mysteries ' only revealed in the NT .
Yet you deny the Words of Jesus (the Head as you say).
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,729
2,158
113
#80
Who was Cornelius then? Was Cornelius a believer? How did He come to believe in Christ? Through Paul or Peter?
Neither, but what we have are the acts of the apostles after the resurrection of Christ. Doctrine for the body of Christ goes through Paul. The book of Acts is a transition book not a doctrinal book for the body of Christ.